What powers The Force?

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cmdrjones
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What powers The Force?

Post by cmdrjones »

"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! Yes, even between the land and the ship."
―Yoda, lecturing Luke on the Force


If Yoda is correct and the Force is literally created and grows via life, and its energy surrounds and binds life, then it stands to reason that the Energy level required to accomplish force feats (I am sure people could calculate the amount of energy absorbed by vader when han took a shot at him, or that of Luke when he force leaps here or there, or what Yoda expends to lift an X wing etc etc) would be determined by the overall amount of LIFE in the vicinity. Now, vicinity is probably relative, but I would state that the uppermost limit of the range of life energy that creates the Force would most likely be the Galaxy itself. If that is valid, then it follows that Force users who leave the SW galaxy for other Sci-fi universes would suffer or enjoy a commensurate increase or decrease in Force power energy based on the average level of Life in that setting, so, Vader in B5 or Stargate is likely to be far weaker than Vader in SW, with Vader in Star Trek falling somewhere between the two, But Vader in say Cultureverse or perhaps Farscape verse with it's crazy numbers of Scarrans and peacekeepers running around (Commerce planets???) he would likely be MORE powerful.

Thoughts?

I think this theory holds true whether the Force USER has midichlorians or not....

Speaking of Midichlorians... IF one subscribes to that.... could a Trek doctor (Oh I don't know, one who uses SUPERBLOOD (tm) to resurrect the dead), or another doctor from a sufficiently advanced culture, not synthesize a hypospray of midichlorians to make Force users out of everybody?
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Elheru Aran »

This is one area where we simply don't know enough to say one way or another. It's kinda silly to set the Force aside in a versus debate as otherwise it becomes a matter of dakka, nothing else. If you are going to involve Jedi, removing the Force removes whatever makes them special; they become merely wielders of fancy swords, of varying skill.

Calcs have indeed been done on the energy required to accomplish various feats; they can probably be found here if you care to search.

As for the midichlorians: again, we don't know enough.

Yoda is, by ESB, largely the stereotypical 'wise Chinese sage' figure. He's speaking as much in metaphor and figurative language as literally. It's hard to be sure whether one should take him 100% seriously-- 'luminous beings are we' indeed. Given his alien species, age and experience in the Force, it's quite possible as well that he has a completely different perspective on it than we humans would. He may be able of actually visually perceiving it (Kirlian aura? Who knows).
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by TOSDOC »

Speaking of Midichlorians... IF one subscribes to that.... could a Trek doctor (Oh I don't know, one who uses SUPERBLOOD (tm) to resurrect the dead), or another doctor from a sufficiently advanced culture, not synthesize a hypospray of midichlorians to make Force users out of everybody?
I would think the immediate problem with the midichlorians would be making them compatible with whomever you're injecting them without rejection. I'm sure Dr. Crusher could technobabble her way through that in 5 minutes.

But injection of (more) midichlorians do not make you an immediate "Force User". In Luke's conversation with Yoda and Ben in ESB, Luke emphasizes he feels the force, to which Ben responds "But you cannot control it." It takes many years to train a Jedi in it's use. It was far easier for McCoy to inject Kirk with Kironide to grant him (temporary) telekinetic powers which he could use nearly immediately.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

cmdrjones wrote:Speaking of Midichlorians... IF one subscribes to that.... could a Trek doctor (Oh I don't know, one who uses SUPERBLOOD (tm) to resurrect the dead), or another doctor from a sufficiently advanced culture, not synthesize a hypospray of midichlorians to make Force users out of everybody?
One would assume that if it were as simple as injecting midichlorians (or transfusing with donor blood that already has them in sufficient quantity) it would have been tried before, whereas (AFAIK/IIRC) with the exception of Anakin, almost all known Force users are born with their powers, or in two cases are clones of existing Force users (which created it's own set of problems).

In Jedi Academy (the game) there was a Dark Side artifact that let you drain Force power from a location/person, store it and use that to empower people, but the resulting users were relatively weak (enough for the character, a new apprentice, to be able to defeat them in large numbers, even before he becomes a Knight) and they lost their powers when the artifact was destroyed.

This suggests that artificially creating Force users is extremely difficult and rarely successful. Those made artifically aren't very powerful, and those that are cloned (from the Henri to the Empire books, Joruus C'Baoth and Luuke Skywalker) go, well, completely mad unless they kill the original or are in the Force-free bubble of a Ysalamiri, which defeats the point really).
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by biostem »

My interpretation of the midichlorians thing is that they grow/live in greater numbers/amounts, in stronger users of the force. In other words, they aren't responsible for giving you the ability to use the force, they are merely an indicator of a strong force user.

As for the comment about the force being an "energy field" - Do we have any canon example of a force user attempting feats while in deep space, with no other life forms around?

The fact that Obi-won was able to sense Alderaan's destruction while they were still a good distance away leads me to believe that it is, if not instantaneous, much faster than light.

Also, is there any discussion anywhere as to whether a force user simply taps into this field, vs being able to generate any of the effects themselves, (since they must be alive, thus giving off/contributing to this field as well).
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by SpottedKitty »

biostem wrote:As for the comment about the force being an "energy field" - Do we have any canon example of a force user attempting feats while in deep space, with no other life forms around?
There were a few points in (I think) all three OT movies where Luke and Vader were apparently able to get some sense of each other's presence while they were on different ships, but they weren't really all that far apart; close enough to see the other ship, I think. On the gripping hand, it might have been complicated by their being related, and being the only two Force-users in sensing range.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Batman »

SpottedKitty wrote:
biostem wrote:As for the comment about the force being an "energy field" - Do we have any canon example of a force user attempting feats while in deep space, with no other life forms around?
There were a few points in (I think) all three OT movies where Luke and Vader were apparently able to get some sense of each other's presence while they were on different ships, but they weren't really all that far apart; close enough to see the other ship, I think. On the gripping hand, it might have been complicated by their being related, and being the only two Force-users in sensing range.
I don't think those quite meet the qualification of 'no other life-forms being around' tough.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by biostem »

I recall a non-canon example where Luke had just evaded capture, by doing a hyperspace micro-jump in his X-Wing - it blew out his hyperdrive, though, and he went into a kind of trance to extend his oxygen supply, while trying to reach out to Leia, (and questioning if she was too far, IIRC).
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Joun_Lord »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: In Jedi Academy (the game) there was a Dark Side artifact that let you drain Force power from a location/person, store it and use that to empower people, but the resulting users were relatively weak (enough for the character, a new apprentice, to be able to defeat them in large numbers, even before he becomes a Knight) and they lost their powers when the artifact was destroyed.
There was actually another type in the previous game, Jedi Outcast, called Reborn. The Reborn were the result of channeling the powers of the Valley of the Jedi through some force crystal. They were a bit more powerful then the Cultists, they tended to be the heavier elite enemy Sith in Academy, and were made even more powerful with the super fucking awesome Shadowtrooper armor.

There were other related artificial force users made through "purification" by Waru. From what I remember from supplemental material Desann trained the Waru made force dudes and was inspired by their existence to create the Reborn.

The difference between the Reborn and Cultists seems to be the usage of the force crystals. Cultists were given the sucked up force power directly but their powers disappeared after the destruction of the staff and they were generally weaker then their Reborn predecessors. The Reborn has the sucked up Valley powers given to them through the crystals and their powers I think were permanent, plus they were pretty strong dudes.

But the main thing about both, and even the Waru created one I think considering he was brought into the SW universe by a massive disturbance in the Swartz (and into our universe by a massive suck of a book), is artificial force users were given their powers through great reserves of force energy. So I think it would be possible for someone to infuse a individual with force powers if they can figure out a way to store force energy. If they cannot they are shit out of luck as they cannot rely on the Reborn/Cultist method as there would be no force strong areas in their native galaxy as there were not force users to interact and create force strong areas. Though one can assume psychic powers are just a form of force power so maybe strong psychic imprints could be drained of force energy. Maybe places like Betazed or Vulcan in the Star Trek universe that produced psychic races would have strong force presences,
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by cmdrjones »

TOSDOC wrote:
Speaking of Midichlorians... IF one subscribes to that.... could a Trek doctor (Oh I don't know, one who uses SUPERBLOOD (tm) to resurrect the dead), or another doctor from a sufficiently advanced culture, not synthesize a hypospray of midichlorians to make Force users out of everybody?
I would think the immediate problem with the midichlorians would be making them compatible with whomever you're injecting them without rejection. I'm sure Dr. Crusher could technobabble her way through that in 5 minutes.

But injection of (more) midichlorians do not make you an immediate "Force User". In Luke's conversation with Yoda and Ben in ESB, Luke emphasizes he feels the force, to which Ben responds "But you cannot control it." It takes many years to train a Jedi in it's use. It was far easier for McCoy to inject Kirk with Kironide to grant him (temporary) telekinetic powers which he could use nearly immediately.

This seems very logical... per the OP we would be dealing with a radically different technology interacting with an aspect of SW biology that is not very well understood. Of course, with the Prequel trilogy in place, this debate has an opportunity to take place, before, when the force was only a mystic energy field, ST had NO opportunity to spoof or imitate it on a biological level.

Conceivably, you could have borg drones assimilate a Jedi and then transmit the biological structire for midichlorians throughout the collective and BANG- Force Borg!!! :shock:

Aside from that rather ridiculous thought... even if Yoda is speaking metaphorically, there is still a direct (if undefined) link between life itself and The Force. So I still hold that for SW force users their general level of power is correlated (somehow) to the amount of "Life" around them ("Life" somehow including Ships and rocks.... hmm perhaps Yoda is referring to the subatomic particles such as the "force" that holds electrons together?)
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Simon_Jester »

Jedi don't seem to be noticeably weaker on a small moon far from a planet than they are on a huge planet. Nor are they weaker on a starship in deep space with only a few people around than they are on the ground on a life-rich jungle planet.

I suspect that insofar as the Jedi draw on external sources for their 'normal' abilities, the draw is extremely long-ranged, tapping into energies that are dispersed throughout the galaxy, so that it doesn't really matter where they are within the galaxy, or even in hyperspace (since Jedi powers work there too).

There may be specific places that add extra strength to a Force user who happens to be standing right there, typically associated with great battles waged using the Force, with the deaths of powerful Force users, and so on. But those are exceptions. In general, the power supply of the Force seems very insensitive to where you are located.
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Re: What powers The Force?

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Simon_Jester wrote:Jedi don't seem to be noticeably weaker on a small moon far from a planet than they are on a huge planet. Nor are they weaker on a starship in deep space with only a few people around than they are on the ground on a life-rich jungle planet.

I suspect that insofar as the Jedi draw on external sources for their 'normal' abilities, the draw is extremely long-ranged, tapping into energies that are dispersed throughout the galaxy, so that it doesn't really matter where they are within the galaxy, or even in hyperspace (since Jedi powers work there too).

There may be specific places that add extra strength to a Force user who happens to be standing right there, typically associated with great battles waged using the Force, with the deaths of powerful Force users, and so on. But those are exceptions. In general, the power supply of the Force seems very insensitive to where you are located.

agreed.... but would that level of power be affected by the level of "Life" in a given universe? Perhaps not if we take Yoda literally when he talks about Rocks and Ships etc. If The Force binds everything together, then 'life levels' in a given universe may not be a reliable indicator for general power levels.

Second question: Do you think Force powers might work differently in other universes simply due to the type of beings living there? Or perhaps the type of physical laws that might be present? For example, i'm using B5.... so could B5 psionics or elder races or even B5 hyperspace warp the way that a Force User might perceive or otherwise interact with the Force if plopped into B5?
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: What powers The Force?

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cmdrjones wrote:Second question: Do you think Force powers might work differently in other universes simply due to the type of beings living there? Or perhaps the type of physical laws that might be present? For example, i'm using B5.... so could B5 psionics or elder races or even B5 hyperspace warp the way that a Force User might perceive or otherwise interact with the Force if plopped into B5?
Frankly that is a question that cannot be answered. Because there is no way to know how each phenomenon works, there is no way to determine how it would interact with that of another setting. If you are writing a crossover, they either interact or they don't. The default assumption in a versus context is that everything works, as it is otherwise impossible to argue.

It might make more sense for them to interact, with the assumption that all phenomenon operate on the same principles of physics. But this then leads to the question of power levels. And in some cases would make virtually no sense. If Liara from Mass Effect used a biotic singularity against a Sith Lord, there would be no logical reason for the Sith to be able to block it outright as biotics are specifically gravity manipulation and thus something that Force abilities don't directly affect in the same fashion.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by cmdrjones »

Adamskywalker007 wrote:
cmdrjones wrote:Second question: Do you think Force powers might work differently in other universes simply due to the type of beings living there? Or perhaps the type of physical laws that might be present? For example, i'm using B5.... so could B5 psionics or elder races or even B5 hyperspace warp the way that a Force User might perceive or otherwise interact with the Force if plopped into B5?
Frankly that is a question that cannot be answered. Because there is no way to know how each phenomenon works, there is no way to determine how it would interact with that of another setting. If you are writing a crossover, they either interact or they don't. The default assumption in a versus context is that everything works, as it is otherwise impossible to argue.

It might make more sense for them to interact, with the assumption that all phenomenon operate on the same principles of physics. But this then leads to the question of power levels. And in some cases would make virtually no sense. If Liara from Mass Effect used a biotic singularity against a Sith Lord, there would be no logical reason for the Sith to be able to block it outright as biotics are specifically gravity manipulation and thus something that Force abilities don't directly affect in the same fashion.

Ah gotcha... after a while it boils down to authors choice with educated guessery informing the process. Though, i'd add a quibble to your example that SW Force powers definitely DO interact with an manipulate gravity, (i.e. Vaders Telekinesis and Yoda tossing the senate around) though I doubt a Froce user would be prepared to defend against a thrown singularity... that's something of a power level they wouldn't have an answer for, much like B5 psionics and JEdi tossing around heavy objects with their minds.
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Elheru Aran »

You think Force powers manipulate gravity? Do you manipulate gravity every time you pick up a pencil? Same thing. There has been zero indication that Force users can use gravity in such a manner.
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Re: What powers The Force?

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cmdrjones wrote: Ah gotcha... after a while it boils down to authors choice with educated guessery informing the process. Though, i'd add a quibble to your example that SW Force powers definitely DO interact with an manipulate gravity, (i.e. Vaders Telekinesis and Yoda tossing the senate around) though I doubt a Froce user would be prepared to defend against a thrown singularity... that's something of a power level they wouldn't have an answer for, much like B5 psionics and JEdi tossing around heavy objects with their minds.
As Elheru Aran points out, interacting is not the same thing as manipulating. It isn't just a question of power level.
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Re: What powers The Force?

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Elheru Aran wrote:You think Force powers manipulate gravity? Do you manipulate gravity every time you pick up a pencil? Same thing. There has been zero indication that Force users can use gravity in such a manner.

Well, i don't manipulate the force of gravity, gravity acts on the pencil just the same, I just overcome it with a greater force. Jedi do so without any visible mechanism to accomplish that feat. I would posit that they A) either manipluate the gravity around the object so that it can be more easily moved or becomes effectively weightless or B) exert some sort of unseen force (which we might call telekinesis or anti-gravity) in excess of the gravity already exerted on the object (plus inertia) to make if fly at you and crush your face.
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Elheru Aran »

It's the latter. Telekinesis, not antigravity, which would be a more uniform force acting against gravity in general rather than a specific force applied to a specific object. And it's already considered to be telekinesis anyway. The only difference between TK and picking up stuff with your own muscles is one uses a non-physical, mentally controlled force, the other applies physical muscle.
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Re: What powers The Force?

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The only difference between TK and picking up stuff with your own muscles is one uses a non-physical, mentally controlled force, the other applies physical muscle.
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<snip physics discussion>

Whatever Force telekinesis IS, what we've seen of it on the screen seems to suggest that with the proper mental focus, a Jedi can cause a force to be applied to an object in whatever direction they want. That is, they have much more control than simply cancelling or reversing gravitational pull on an object. I don't recall any scene that really highlights a Jedi's ability to apply torque to an object remotely (the bit with the chance cube, maybe?), but given how they flip lightsabers into their hands, they must be able to do that.

Hmm, a Jedi that can exert more force than his or her own weight ought to be able to fly--by lifting themselves if Force TK has no recoil force, or by pushing off the ground if it does.
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Re: What powers The Force?

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Zeropoint wrote:Hmm, a Jedi that can exert more force than his or her own weight ought to be able to fly--by lifting themselves if Force TK has no recoil force, or by pushing off the ground if it does.
Isn't that how they do those ridiculously extended jumps? And I'm sure I remember seeing Yoda run across the ceiling at least once in his duel with Dooku; I think that should count as effectively flying.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Purple »

Not really. A jump only necessitates one jolt of force. In order to fly continually a Jedi would have to be capable of continually producing that force continually for the duration of the flight. And that would require a lot more effort.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Elheru Aran »

Plus Yoda is... somewhat exceptional (almost 900 years of experience, considered high-end power level) as well, and he's simply much smaller than a human. IIRC, flying with the Force is something only very rarely done in the Legends canon so far but it does exist.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_fl ... rce_Flight

It appears to hardly be something you can do on the spur of the moment and sustain in the middle of combat, unless you're ridiculously experienced with it.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by Solauren »

Giving someone the force has never happened in Canon, and there have been experiments in that by the Jedi, Sith, other force users, and science for the entire history of the Jedi order, and back somewhat further.

No one has even come close. According to the Darth Plagueis novel, the running theory was that midichlorians recognized if they were in their original host body or not, and did not infuse force abilities upon transfer.

It's also what made cloning force sensitives such a bitch, and why it was so hard for the Kaminoians to clone Galen Marek.

When it comes to the Force,you are best with either not having Force users in a versus debate unless you have to (i.e the Emperor, Vader, and their Dark Side Servants get involved if the Empire starts losing), and when you do, not so much with how it works, but what it does.
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Re: What powers The Force?

Post by applejack »

cmdrjones wrote:"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! Yes, even between the land and the ship."
―Yoda, lecturing Luke on the Force


If Yoda is correct and the Force is literally created and grows via life, and its energy surrounds and binds life, then it stands to reason that the Energy level required to accomplish force feats (I am sure people could calculate the amount of energy absorbed by vader when han took a shot at him, or that of Luke when he force leaps here or there, or what Yoda expends to lift an X wing etc etc) would be determined by the overall amount of LIFE in the vicinity. Now, vicinity is probably relative, but I would state that the uppermost limit of the range of life energy that creates the Force would most likely be the Galaxy itself. If that is valid, then it follows that Force users who leave the SW galaxy for other Sci-fi universes would suffer or enjoy a commensurate increase or decrease in Force power energy based on the average level of Life in that setting, so, Vader in B5 or Stargate is likely to be far weaker than Vader in SW, with Vader in Star Trek falling somewhere between the two, But Vader in say Cultureverse or perhaps Farscape verse with it's crazy numbers of Scarrans and peacekeepers running around (Commerce planets???) he would likely be MORE powerful.

Thoughts?

I think this theory holds true whether the Force USER has midichlorians or not....

Speaking of Midichlorians... IF one subscribes to that.... could a Trek doctor (Oh I don't know, one who uses SUPERBLOOD (tm) to resurrect the dead), or another doctor from a sufficiently advanced culture, not synthesize a hypospray of midichlorians to make Force users out of everybody?
So far, I haven't heard anyone mention the Cosmic Force. There's this quote from Qui-Gon Jinn courtesy of Wookieepedia:
"All energy from the Living Force, from all things that have ever lived, feeds into the Cosmic Force, binding everything and communicating to us through the midi-chlorians. Because of this, I can speak to you now."
Doesn't this suggest that the Cosmic Force also helps power Force users through midichlorians in addition to the Living Force (which seems to be the concentration in this thread)? If so, and depending on how well they can tap into the Cosmic Force, would that make the vicinity of life less relevant?
cmdrjones wrote:agreed.... but would that level of power be affected by the level of "Life" in a given universe? Perhaps not if we take Yoda literally when he talks about Rocks and Ships etc. If The Force binds everything together, then 'life levels' in a given universe may not be a reliable indicator for general power levels.
I get the impression that he isn't saying that rocks and ships generate the Force. Rather, he seems to be saying that it is literally everywhere and available to a Jedi if he needs it.
Dear Lord, the gods have been good to me. As an offering, I present these milk and cookies. If you wish me to eat them instead, please give me no sign whatsoever *pauses* Thy will be done *munch munch munch*. - Homer Simpson
cmdrjones
Jedi Knight
Posts: 715
Joined: 2012-02-19 12:10pm

Re: What powers The Force?

Post by cmdrjones »

applejack wrote:
cmdrjones wrote:"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! Yes, even between the land and the ship."
―Yoda, lecturing Luke on the Force


If Yoda is correct and the Force is literally created and grows via life, and its energy surrounds and binds life, then it stands to reason that the Energy level required to accomplish force feats (I am sure people could calculate the amount of energy absorbed by vader when han took a shot at him, or that of Luke when he force leaps here or there, or what Yoda expends to lift an X wing etc etc) would be determined by the overall amount of LIFE in the vicinity. Now, vicinity is probably relative, but I would state that the uppermost limit of the range of life energy that creates the Force would most likely be the Galaxy itself. If that is valid, then it follows that Force users who leave the SW galaxy for other Sci-fi universes would suffer or enjoy a commensurate increase or decrease in Force power energy based on the average level of Life in that setting, so, Vader in B5 or Stargate is likely to be far weaker than Vader in SW, with Vader in Star Trek falling somewhere between the two, But Vader in say Cultureverse or perhaps Farscape verse with it's crazy numbers of Scarrans and peacekeepers running around (Commerce planets???) he would likely be MORE powerful.

Thoughts?

I think this theory holds true whether the Force USER has midichlorians or not....

Speaking of Midichlorians... IF one subscribes to that.... could a Trek doctor (Oh I don't know, one who uses SUPERBLOOD (tm) to resurrect the dead), or another doctor from a sufficiently advanced culture, not synthesize a hypospray of midichlorians to make Force users out of everybody?
So far, I haven't heard anyone mention the Cosmic Force. There's this quote from Qui-Gon Jinn courtesy of Wookieepedia:
"All energy from the Living Force, from all things that have ever lived, feeds into the Cosmic Force, binding everything and communicating to us through the midi-chlorians. Because of this, I can speak to you now."
Doesn't this suggest that the Cosmic Force also helps power Force users through midichlorians in addition to the Living Force (which seems to be the concentration in this thread)? If so, and depending on how well they can tap into the Cosmic Force, would that make the vicinity of life less relevant?
cmdrjones wrote:agreed.... but would that level of power be affected by the level of "Life" in a given universe? Perhaps not if we take Yoda literally when he talks about Rocks and Ships etc. If The Force binds everything together, then 'life levels' in a given universe may not be a reliable indicator for general power levels.
I get the impression that he isn't saying that rocks and ships generate the Force. Rather, he seems to be saying that it is literally everywhere and available to a Jedi if he needs it.
THis actually makes a LOT of sense.... the cosmic force being that which is independent of "life" sort of like the energy contained in, say all subatomic particles in a given universe, as compared to the LIVING force, which is more in relation to life forms currently alive?
Terralthra wrote:It's similar to the Arabic word for "one who sows discord" or "one who crushes underfoot". It'd be like if the acronym for the some Tea Party thing was "DKBAG" or something. In one sense, it's just the acronym for ISIL/ISIS in Arabic: Dawlat (al-) Islāmiyya ‘Irāq Shām, but it's also an insult.
"Democratic Korps (of those who are) Beneficently Anti-Government"
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