Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

Post by Stofsk »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:What could the Federation possibly offer the New Republic in terms of military aid?
There are tons of things. The question is why would they get involved. And would their involvement mean giving the NR or Rebellion technology the SW side doesn't have.

But even if it's just raw supplies, that's still a hefty thing and lets NR/Rebel procurement focus on more weapons or whatever. Hell food replicators alone could cut out a not-insubstantial logistics necessity.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Eternal_Freedom wrote:What could the Federation possibly offer the New Republic in terms of military aid?
A different type of technology. The likelihood is, there are going to be some things or methods the federation put in their tech that the rebels haven't thought of yet, so they could use star trek tech to enhance their own tech.
Doesn't matter if it is more primitive, for example primitive superconductor technology is always going to be useful to an advanced society who have never heard of superconductors.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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That's right, and there's other possibilities too. Medical technology in ST seems to be way more advanced than in SW, which thanks to the EU we're told there's only one planet in the entire GFFA which supplies bacta. Having a secondary source of medicine that works on different principles to bacta = HUEG advantage.

How about holodecks for training/simulations? How about telepaths for espionage and intelligence gathering? How about transporters for mass transit for personnel or materiel?

Cloaking devices could be another game-changer. Put a few of those on x-wings and see what happens.

There's a lot the Trek side can offer, it's not all about teh giggatons.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Batman wrote:Other than the fact that your technology is about 20,000 years out of date of course.
That makes the hilariously mistaken assumption that SW tech is at all uniform and that any schmuck on a random planet has a good idea about what races and societies are out there. I mean, Dark Empire had a steam powered space ship and there's a whole half of the galaxy labelled 'the unknown regions'. :lol:
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

Post by Simonoz »

Although they are rare, SW cloaking devices do exist (Darth Maul has one) and there is an alternative to bacta (kolto), but in principle, you are right. Just because ST is more primitive doesnt mean it's tech can be disregarded as useful. I've often thought about how we could send some colonists out to another planet for a few centuries and them reunite with them to see how our technologies have split.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Ok, I'll concede the "what can the Feds offer the NR" argument. I suppose if all else fails offering them safe haven in a region of space with one easily defensible route in is a useful thing.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

Post by Batman »

Cloaking devices are so rare that on the disappearance of the MF from sensors in ESB...the Imperials concluded that it couldn't have cloaked because no ship that small has a cloaking device. Which at least to me indicates that cloaking devices are far from unheard of in the Wars universe, they're just bulky (and presumably expensive). Pretty much everyone analyzing the Sluis Van fiasco or the siege of Coruscant during the Thrawn Trilogy (or the issue of the apparently shield-piercing turbolasers, haven't got the exact quotes handy) concluded cloaks of some kind were involved. Cloaking technology may not be as widespread (for whatever reasons) as it is in Trek, but it's neither unknown nor unexpected.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

Post by Batman »

the atom wrote:
Batman wrote:Other than the fact that your technology is about 20,000 years out of date of course.
That makes the hilariously mistaken assumption that SW tech is at all uniform and that any schmuck on a random planet has a good idea about what races and societies are out there. I mean, Dark Empire had a steam powered space ship and there's a whole half of the galaxy labelled 'the unknown regions'. :lol:
You had a valid enough complaint until 'steam powered space ship' and I would very much like to see the map that labels half of the galaxy
the Unknown Regions.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Looking at Wookieepedia, it's closer to a third.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

Post by atg »

Stofsk wrote:which thanks to the EU we're told there's only one planet in the entire GFFA which supplies bacta. Having a secondary source of medicine that works on different principles to bacta = HUEG advantage.
Doesn't Thyferra have colonies where Bacta is produced also? Still one planet controlling the process though... I seem to recall some other magical liquid thing with similar properties to Bacta... Rhyll?
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Dont forget manaan's kolto!
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Simonoz wrote:Dont forget manaan's kolto!
According to Wookieepedia, Bacta replaced it.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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atg wrote:
Stofsk wrote:which thanks to the EU we're told there's only one planet in the entire GFFA which supplies bacta. Having a secondary source of medicine that works on different principles to bacta = HUEG advantage.
Doesn't Thyferra have colonies where Bacta is produced also? Still one planet controlling the process though... I seem to recall some other magical liquid thing with similar properties to Bacta... Rhyll?
I don't know if Thyferra produces it in addition to any colonies it has, I just remember the plot of The Bacta War lol :)
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Looking at Wookieepedia, it's closer to a third.
I think it's closer to 40% than a third or a half.
Batman wrote:Cloaking devices are so rare that on the disappearance of the MF from sensors in ESB...the Imperials concluded that it couldn't have cloaked because no ship that small has a cloaking device. Which at least to me indicates that cloaking devices are far from unheard of in the Wars universe, they're just bulky (and presumably expensive). Pretty much everyone analyzing the Sluis Van fiasco or the siege of Coruscant during the Thrawn Trilogy (or the issue of the apparently shield-piercing turbolasers, haven't got the exact quotes handy) concluded cloaks of some kind were involved. Cloaking technology may not be as widespread (for whatever reasons) as it is in Trek, but it's neither unknown nor unexpected.
You're wrong in your assessment. Cloaks in SW are rare enough that they actually would be unexpected (if not unknown, which I never said or implied), because a) they need some unobtanium bullshit in their construction that is super rare (check the wiki), b) their limitations make them less effective due to their double-blind nature, and c) despite this, Thrawn nevertheless used SW cloaks to great tactical effect in Heir to the Empire and The Last Command. ST cloaks have neither limitation, which just means point c becomes a great deal more important. In addition, TLC also said you need some kind of super rare sensor thing to defeat the cloaks which Thrawn had employed for the siege of Coruscant, and this was a major plot point.

Your other point about Captain Needa's assessment is countered by Maul's tiny little ship having a cloak as well, and it was a similar size to the Falcon. Meaning even SW cloaks can fit on small attack craft.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Not a fighter, but still. I actually think combo tech would be very cool. Imagine a phaser hooked up to a SW power source, or stormtroopers teleporting directly into a battlefield.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Looking at Wookieepedia, it's closer to a third.
Looking at that image, isn't the SW galaxy meant to be 120,000 ly across? I wonder what the squares represent. Some SW unit of distance?
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Stofsk wrote:
Batman wrote:Cloaking devices are so rare that on the disappearance of the MF from sensors in ESB...the Imperials concluded that it couldn't have cloaked because no ship that small has a cloaking device. Which at least to me indicates that cloaking devices are far from unheard of in the Wars universe, they're just bulky (and presumably expensive). Pretty much everyone analyzing the Sluis Van fiasco or the siege of Coruscant during the Thrawn Trilogy (or the issue of the apparently shield-piercing turbolasers, haven't got the exact quotes handy) concluded cloaks of some kind were involved. Cloaking technology may not be as widespread (for whatever reasons) as it is in Trek, but it's neither unknown nor unexpected.
You're wrong in your assessment. Cloaks in SW are rare enough that they actually would be unexpected (if not unknown, which I never said or implied), because a) they need some unobtanium bullshit in their construction that is super rare (check the wiki)
The one used by Darth Maul did. There's no evidence the other cloaks we've seen in Wars do.
, b) their limitations make them less effective due to their double-blind nature,
The cloak Thrawn and later Palleon used was double blind. The one Anakin used in the Clone Wars cartoon was not.
and c) despite this, Thrawn nevertheless used SW cloaks to great tactical effect in Heir to the Empire and The Last Command.
So? Cloaks were used to great tactical effect any number of times in Trek despite everybody and their tribble knowing the Romulans and Klingons had them. That's what cloaks are for.
ST cloaks have neither limitation, which just means point c becomes a great deal more important.
Neither do all Wars cloaks. The Maul cloak has the unobtainium weakness, and the Thrawn cloak the double blind (which is pathetically easy to work around, incidentally). Anakin's cloke from The Clone Wars had neither that I can recall.
In addition, TLC also said you need some kind of super rare sensor thing to defeat the cloaks which Thrawn had employed for the siege of Coruscant, and this was a major plot point.
Indeed. Which means they knew cloaks were involved in the first place. If you don't expect cloaks you neither develop gadgets designed to defeat them nor concoct plans to get hold of some.
Maybe I'm using 'expect' inaccurately here. I'm not trying to say the Imps will assume cloaked ships to be part of any specific tactical situation, but strategically they're very well aware of their existance.
Your other point about Captain Needa's assessment is countered by Maul's tiny little ship having a cloak as well, and it was a similar size to the Falcon. Meaning even SW cloaks can fit on small attack craft.
One kind of cloak used during the Clone Wars can. A kind that, as you yourself pointed out, relied on a very rare material resource. Apparently, by the time of ESB, there's cloaks that are common enough to be considered an halfway plausible explanation for a ship vanishing off sensors but not suitable for a ship as small as the Falcon.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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jwl wrote:
EnterpriseSovereign wrote:Looking at Wookieepedia, it's closer to a third.
Looking at that image, isn't the SW galaxy meant to be 120,000 ly across? I wonder what the squares represent. Some SW unit of distance?
The grid is weird, it's 23x21, a rough calc puts the sizes of each square at 5,200 x 5,700 ly. I'm surprised no-one's sent a few thousand hyperdrive equipped probe droids to map such an obvious gap, no wonder the archives are incomplete :D
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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I think that in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Canderous says something about the dangers of exploring new hyperspace routes, but that still doesn'texplain the lack of unmanned probes.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Batman wrote:
the atom wrote:
Batman wrote:Other than the fact that your technology is about 20,000 years out of date of course.
That makes the hilariously mistaken assumption that SW tech is at all uniform and that any schmuck on a random planet has a good idea about what races and societies are out there. I mean, Dark Empire had a steam powered space ship and there's a whole half of the galaxy labelled 'the unknown regions'. :lol:
You had a valid enough complaint until 'steam powered space ship' and I would very much like to see the map that labels half of the galaxy
the Unknown Regions.
There was a steam powered warship named the Falcon in Dark Empire. Yes, this happened.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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the atom wrote:There was a steam powered warship named the Falcon in Dark Empire. Yes, this happened.
There's no Wookieepedia article about it, the article on Dark Empire mentions it but no word on the ship itself being steam-powered :?
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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EnterpriseSovereign wrote:
the atom wrote:There was a steam powered warship named the Falcon in Dark Empire. Yes, this happened.
There's no Wookieepedia article about it, the article on Dark Empire mentions it but no word on the ship itself being steam-powered :?
Yeah I checked there for it too. I'll just have to put up the quote from my copy if/when I visit home for the weekend.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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lPeregrine wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:Bingo, go there, blow shit and leave. Rig the station to blow if possible, or target Corellia's sun if needed. If I have to die in the blast, so be it, I've brought chaos to the Empire and achieved the objectives.
That's not exactly going to be an instant process. And as soon as the local bizarre alien artifact starts doing anything other than sitting there doing nothing there's going to be a boarding assault on its way to figure out what's going on. Assuming it doesn't already have a security force aboard, sensors on the entrances to alert a security force to any intrusion, etc, and have stormtroopers bringing you into the interrogation room before you've even figured out which way to go to get to the "kill planet" button.
I seem to recall that when Centerpoint was used to blow up two separate stars in The Corellian Trilogy, nobody in the Corellian System actually noticed it was activating. That includes the people who were physically living aboard the thing. The one time they did notice ... Spoiler
when it was fired and the Solo kids used a planetary repulsor to knock it off-target
... there was a pitched battle going on in visual range of the station.
Also, don't forget that at this time nobody knows how to use the station's weapon (or that it even has one), so good luck figuring it out before you're caught. It's certainly not going to be as simple as "dock at the station, blow up every key planet in Star Wars, back home to Earth in time for dinner".
Now that, there, is a good argument.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Found the part from Dark Empire about the steam ship:
The Falcon's reactor lines are leaking badly...knowing their only chance is to get to a port, Solo is relieved to be captured by this steam-powered battleship--the Robida Colossus.

The Ganath System is caught in an antique era of low-tech slow-speed space travel. The crew of the Falcon, amazed by the fantastic steam-poweed space vessel, are even more astonished as they descend to the capital of the Ganathan home world.
Strangely, nobody's first reaction is to assume these people are from another galaxy. :P
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

Post by Zwinmar »

It could also be, as far as cloaking technology goes, that SW sensors would easily see through the ST style cloaking devices. From what I remember ST cloaks do nothing to stop various forms of radiation from seeping out which should be detectible.
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Re: Lead a pre-emptive strike against the Empire!

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Zwinmar wrote:It could also be, as far as cloaking technology goes, that SW sensors would easily see through the ST style cloaking devices. From what I remember ST cloaks do nothing to stop various forms of radiation from seeping out which should be detectible.
The Remans seemed to have found a way around this. From Memory Alpha:
The Scimitar's cloaking technology was, in the words of Geordi La Forge, "perfect." It emitted no tachyons and left no residual anti-protons, the two ways that a cloaked ship could be tracked and located. Thus, when cloaked, the Scimitar was virtually impossible to find.
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