The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

Moderator: Vympel

User avatar
Lord Falcon
Padawan Learner
Posts: 163
Joined: 2011-04-15 11:31am
Location: Staring at my computer

The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Lord Falcon »

Exactly what the title says. In space, a Borg Cube comes across the Millennium Falcon. It sees that it possesses a highly advanced technology and decide, in their usual fashion, to assimilate it.

Personally, I think the Falcon is going to win, but it won't be like some overblown Star Wars fans claim, with just one hit, but those hits would inflict huge damage that steadily take it down.

Discuss.
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5938
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by bilateralrope »

What stops whoever is piloting the Millennium Falcon from seeing the Borg Cube and thinking "I have never seen anything like that before. It's much larger than my ship. Time to run" ?
User avatar
Napoleon the Clown
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2446
Joined: 2007-05-05 02:54pm
Location: Minneso'a

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

Yeah, the Falcon's pilot would probably just decide to book it instead of going up against something that big. At which point the Borg are left wondering where the hell this tiny little space craft went.

If forced into a fight? I'm guessing the Falcon is small and nimble enough the Borg would have a bitch of a time targeting it, making the question of if it's weapons can hurt the Falcon moot. I don't think we'd see a cakewalk for our favorite freighter ship but it would probably have enough punch to win in the end. Though I question what could force the Falcon into a fight. You don't need to be that far away from a planet to jump to hyperspace, so even being near a planet wouldn't "corner" them. I guess the hyperdrive could be on the fritz, as it is wont to do.
Sig images are for people who aren't fucking lazy.
User avatar
biostem
Jedi Master
Posts: 1488
Joined: 2012-11-15 01:48pm

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by biostem »

I think a lot would come down to what warhead ordinance the Falcon was carrying - the 2 quad-blasters may be able to eventually whittle down the cube's shields, but it'd take a while. If the Falcon was carrying heavy space bombs or had the light turbolasers instead of the quad blasters, then things might go better for it. This is also assuming it doesn't spontaneously have one of its many computer problems or systems failures.
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3999
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

What the borg would do is try to lock a tractor beam onto the ship, if they do then the Falcon's agility won't be worth a damn, and if they succeed in beaming enough drones on board it's all over- with only a handful of crew at best you cannot fend off a boarding action and fight a space battle at the same time.
User avatar
Boeing 757
Padawan Learner
Posts: 338
Joined: 2007-10-30 05:48pm
Location: Εν ενί γαλαξία μένω, ον συ ου δύνασαι ευρείν χωρίς διαστημικού οχήματος.

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Boeing 757 »

The cube will likely win this, unless the Falcon has many more high-yield torpedoes than I reckon it does. The cube's tractor beams and disruptors have shown themselves to be able to score hits against small juking targets such as the Delta Flyer, so the Falcon will be hit catastrophically sooner rather than later.
Omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium.

Kritisches Denken schützt vor Illusionen.

Παν μέτρον άριστον τῷ κρατίστῳ.
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Batman »

Small juking Star Trek targets. The Falcon has massively higher linear acceleration if nothing else and the Borg can do that (and lock on tractor beams) to ships sitting practically on top of them. Why would she ever get that close to a massively large totally unknown ship? And that's ignoring that the crew is probably going to bolt moment the Space Zombies do their inevitable assimilation speech.
The Falcon's lasers may get to blithely ignore the Borg shields, which didn't do jack all to stop the Big E's phasers for those first few shots in Q Who, and whether or not they can adapt to Wars weapons is speculation really. Not that that's going to help much mind you, the quads are fighter scale weapons so they'd have to plink away at the Cube freaking forever to kill it.
And of course, at which point in the Falcon's long and illustrious career this happens. The quads-see above. With concussion missile launchers-those can carry (if smallish by Wars standards) anti-capship warheads even in fighter scale mounts, and the Falcon does have room for bigger than that. The LTLs mentioned somewhere in the EU-this could end badly for the Borg, especially if their defenses can't adapt.

Not that I see how the Cube is going to force an engagement. Even if the Falcon somehow ends up in tractor range and can't just break the tractor lock with brute force, she can always do what the Big E did in Q Who-blow up the damned tractor beem projector (hopefully with better accuracy than Worf :P )and haul ass. Unlike the E-D the Falcon can easily outrun the Cube even sublight.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Boeing 757 wrote:The cube will likely win this, unless the Falcon has many more high-yield torpedoes than I reckon it does.
According to Wookieepedia, the Falcon carries eight concussion missiles that are "...as powerful as a standard proton torpedo."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/ST2_concussion_missile
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Captain Seafort »

The Romulan Republic wrote:According to Wookieepedia, the Falcon carries eight concussion missiles that are "...as powerful as a standard proton torpedo."
Either "standard" PTs are a lot heavier than a typical X-Wing's load, or that's bullshit. The Falcon's missiles punched holes in DSII's main reactor, when Wedge's torps wouldn't dent it.
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Formless »

Captain Seafort wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:According to Wookieepedia, the Falcon carries eight concussion missiles that are "...as powerful as a standard proton torpedo."
Either "standard" PTs are a lot heavier than a typical X-Wing's load, or that's bullshit. The Falcon's missiles punched holes in DSII's main reactor, when Wedge's torps wouldn't dent it.
Source? I find that dubious, considering that a typical X-Wing load was enough to destroy the first Death Star's reactor. And Wedge's job was to attack a power regulator structure, and his torpedoes worked just fine.

Alternatively they could have better penetration instead-- at least a few sources I've read state that concussion missiles were designed to punch through armor/shields.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Captain Seafort »

Formless wrote:Source?
RotJ novelisation:
"It's too big, Gold Leader," yelled Wedge. "My proton torpedoes won't even dent that."

"Go for the power regulator on the north tower." Lando directed. "I'll take the main reactor. We're carrying concussion missiles- they should penetrate."
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Formless »

So it is a penetration issue, not a firepower issue. That would make sense, since the rebels would want a backup plan and their A-Wings also carry concussion missiles.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Captain Seafort »

Formless wrote:So it is a penetration issue, not a firepower issue. That would make sense, since the rebels would want a backup plan and their A-Wings also carry concussion missiles.
Given the respective sizes of the ships I very much doubt that A-Wing CMs have anything like the punch of the Falcon's. The rebels also don't seem to have had much in the way of intelligence on the DSII's design. Lando ordered his attack group to "lock onto the strongest source you can find - it should be the power generator", indicating that they weren't sure of the route, and the fact that Wedge commented on the size of the reactor (and the consequent ineffectiveness of his torps) suggests they didn't know how big it was.
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Formless »

If you want to bring the movie itself into this (and I certainly prefer it-- the novelizations also gave us Windu's stupid "shatterpoints, lol" idea, so they are far from perfect), then its worth noting that they didn't have this conversation in the movie, and there is very little if any time during the attack sequence where they could have had it offscreen. Lando also issues his final order to Wedge to blow up the power regulator as if 1) they understood enough about the reactor to know it was a critical component that needed to be destroyed to get the big BOOM they were looking for 2) Lando was merely delegating tasks like a good leader should, as opposed to "Wedge, as long as you're here make yourself useful and blow up the one thing you're ship's weapons can handle".

Also, the reactor has an hourglass shape-- indeed, if my memory serves correctly the very middle was an open-air reaction of some sort. The middle section where this reaction was taking place is where Lando puts the missiles, which suggests that it was some sort of shielding that they had to penetrate. Why would the power regulator not be similarly shielded when it too is a critical component? In fact, as I remember it it was given a shield special effect.

And besides all that, the first Death Star was blown up by the same grade of torpedoes fired from the same model starfighter as the one Wedge flew into the second Death Star. Unless better reactor shielding was one of the improvements made on the second Death Star to prevent this exact kind of attack from working twice, that's a pretty important inconsistency.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Formless »

Ghetto edit: besides, the original point was that the two weapon systems can have the same overall yield and still have different penetration characteristics.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Captain Seafort »

Formless wrote:its worth noting that they didn't have this conversation in the movie, and there is very little if any time during the attack sequence where they could have had it offscreen.
Very little, but just enough for Wedge to comment on the size of it I think. You Tube, about 6:50 onwards
Lando also issues his final order to Wedge to blow up the power regulator as if 1) they understood enough about the reactor to know it was a critical component that needed to be destroyed to get the big BOOM they were looking for 2) Lando was merely delegating tasks like a good leader should, as opposed to "Wedge, as long as you're here make yourself useful and blow up the one thing you're ship's weapons can handle".
I'm not disputing that the power regulator was an important component, or that its destruction made Lando's job easier, simply that the reason he was sent after it was because throwing his torpedoes against the main shell would have been a waste of time.
Also, the reactor has an hourglass shape-- indeed, if my memory serves correctly the very middle was an open-air reaction of some sort. The middle section where this reaction was taking place is where Lando puts the missiles, which suggests that it was some sort of shielding that they had to penetrate.
Why does the location indicate that it was shielded? The Falcon hit the point of the north tower, just above the gap, caused a small explosion, and the entire north tower promptly started to fall over.
Why would the power regulator not be similarly shielded when it too is a critical component? In fact, as I remember it it was given a shield special effect.
The power regulator Wedge hit was a far smaller object (which was what Wedge specifically mentioned, not shielding), and when hit the fireball seemed to wrap around the upper part of the reactor tower in a tokomak shape.
And besides all that, the first Death Star was blown up by the same grade of torpedoes fired from the same model starfighter as the one Wedge flew into the second Death Star. Unless better reactor shielding was one of the improvements made on the second Death Star to prevent this exact kind of attack from working twice, that's a pretty important inconsistency.
The first Death Star (and its reactor) was far smaller than the second (about 16km vs 27km for the main bulb).
User avatar
Formless
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2008-11-10 08:59pm
Location: the beginning and end of the Present

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Formless »

Thank you for linking to the video. Some comments:
'm not disputing that the power regulator was an important component, or that its destruction made Lando's job easier, simply that the reason he was sent after it was because throwing his torpedoes against the main shell would have been a waste of time.
Why does the location indicate that it was shielded? The Falcon hit the point of the north tower, just above the gap, caused a small explosion, and the entire north tower promptly started to fall over.
The power regulator Wedge hit was a far smaller object (which was what Wedge specifically mentioned, not shielding), and when hit the fireball seemed to wrap around the upper part of the reactor tower in a tokomak shape.
We can clearly see a forcefield surrounding both the tower and the main reactor. Is it not plausible that these are shields? Moreover, Wedge's torpedoes had to blow a hole through a much larger cross section of actual machinery than the Falcons missiles penetrated, even though it was overall a much smaller target. So, it seems to indicate that the primary difference, if any, between these two components would be their level of shielding. Which doesn't make much sense considering the tower regulator was such an important component. Its there to regulate power-- obviously without it you get an overload, which is bad even without damage to the main reactor.
The first Death Star (and its reactor) was far smaller than the second (about 16km vs 27km for the main bulb).
Why do you think this matters? Relative to each other, one is bigger than the other. Relative to a starfighter and its weapons, the 16 kilometer reactor is still fucking enourmous. Its amazing that it can be damaged at all-- and not only could it, doing so sets off a chain reaction. Both reactors are sensitive enough that size apparently doesn't matter all that much. The only difference between how the first and second were destroyed is that one was hit from a coolant port and the other had fighters actually fly into the superstructure, giving the rebels the luxury of first blowing up the power regulator.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But anyway, there is still really one central issue. Even conceding that the novelization might be valid due to the cut, you have only addressed penetration, not firepower. Can we at least agree that there is no evidence that the Falcon's missiles have a stronger warhead than an X-Wing's torpedo system? That's really the only thing I care about in the end.
"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"
The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Batman »

Why is that even important to the underway debate? We already know even fighter torpedoes can take down Wars capital ship shields in non-ridiculous numbers thanks to the EU (the stupidity of that notwithstanding). Unless you want to argue they do so via technobabble, that means even fighter scale protorps can make mincemeat of any AQ ship, and by extension, so can the Falcon's concussion missiles.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
Boeing 757
Padawan Learner
Posts: 338
Joined: 2007-10-30 05:48pm
Location: Εν ενί γαλαξία μένω, ον συ ου δύνασαι ευρείν χωρίς διαστημικού οχήματος.

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Boeing 757 »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Boeing 757 wrote:The cube will likely win this, unless the Falcon has many more high-yield torpedoes than I reckon it does.
According to Wookieepedia, the Falcon carries eight concussion missiles that are "...as powerful as a standard proton torpedo."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/ST2_concussion_missile
In that case, the outcome would mainly hinge upon how powerful a standard proton torpedo is. I'm guessing though that the Falcon can be upgraded to hold the larger anti-capship missiles if I have Han Solo's personality pegged down like I think I do. If they're anywhere near as powerful as Jango's seismic charges, the cube is done for.
Batman wrote:Small juking Star Trek targets. The Falcon has massively higher linear acceleration if nothing else and the Borg can do that (and lock on tractor beams) to ships sitting practically on top of them.
I don't believe that we have hard data pertaining to how quickly Borg cubes can accelerate, aside from a throwaway line in Scorpion that they can outpace Voyager at sublight. I know that the TNG Tech Manual claims that the Enterprise-D's acceleration stands at 1000 Gs, but the Tech Manual never made it into Paramount's framework of what constitutes Trek canon as far as I know. The Falcon on the other hand likely can't accelerate more than 3000 Gs given that this is how quickly ISDs can accelerate, and they can catch up to the Falcon rather easily in the films. So without further data I'm not sure how you could confidently claim that the Falcon's linear acceleration is somehow exceedingly greater.
Why would she ever get that close to a massively large totally unknown ship? And that's ignoring that the crew is probably going to bolt moment the Space Zombies do their inevitable assimilation speech.
The OP did specify that a Borg cube happened to come upon the Falcon, so I assume both ships have engaged one another.
The Falcon's lasers may get to blithely ignore the Borg shields, which didn't do jack all to stop the Big E's phasers for those first few shots in Q Who, and whether or not they can adapt to Wars weapons is speculation really. Not that that's going to help much mind you, the quads are fighter scale weapons so they'd have to plink away at the Cube freaking forever to kill it.
Indeed.
And of course, at which point in the Falcon's long and illustrious career this happens. The quads-see above. With concussion missile launchers-those can carry (if smallish by Wars standards) anti-capship warheads even in fighter scale mounts, and the Falcon does have room for bigger than that. The LTLs mentioned somewhere in the EU-this could end badly for the Borg, especially if their defenses can't adapt.
I think that the Falcon's concussion-missile launchers probably can hold the higher-yield torpedoes that we read about in the books given that they seemed rather effective in ROTJ, so I doubt that the cube will last long if the Falcon chooses to employ them. Though, isn't the yield for an LTL six megatons as per the AOTC:ICS? Since when was six megatons enough to hurt a Borg cube seeing that the Enterprise-D's entire weapons arsenal couldn't so much as scratch a Borg cube after one had adapted in "Q Who?" and afterwards in "BoBW" ?
Omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium.

Kritisches Denken schützt vor Illusionen.

Παν μέτρον άριστον τῷ κρατίστῳ.
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Batman »

Boeing 757 wrote:
Batman wrote:Small juking Star Trek targets. The Falcon has massively higher linear acceleration if nothing else and the Borg can do that (and lock on tractor beams) to ships sitting practically on top of them.
I don't believe that we have hard data pertaining to how quickly Borg cubes can accelerate, aside from a throwaway line in Scorpion that they can outpace Voyager at sublight. I know that the TNG Tech Manual claims that the Enterprise-D's acceleration stands at 1000 Gs, but the Tech Manual never made it into Paramount's framework of what constitutes Trek canon as far as I know. The Falcon on the other hand likely can't accelerate more than 3000 Gs given that this is how quickly ISDs can accelerate, and they can catch up to the Falcon rather easily in the films. So without further data I'm not sure how you could confidently claim that the Falcon's linear acceleration is somehow exceedingly greater.
That'd be the part were if we go by the visuals, as per STIII 1/4 impulse means roughly 8g. Feel free to show evidence that Borg acceleration is anywhere near thousands of gs.
Why would she ever get that close to a massively large totally unknown ship? And that's ignoring that the crew is probably going to bolt moment the Space Zombies do their inevitable assimilation speech.
The OP did specify that a Borg cube happened to come upon the Falcon, so I assume both ships have engaged one another.
It most definitely did not. It says 'comes across', nothing more. No mention of the MF starting out in tractor beam range.
And of course, at which point in the Falcon's long and illustrious career this happens. The quads-see above. With concussion missile launchers-those can carry (if smallish by Wars standards) anti-capship warheads even in fighter scale mounts, and the Falcon does have room for bigger than that. The LTLs mentioned somewhere in the EU-this could end badly for the Borg, especially if their defenses can't adapt.
I think that the Falcon's concussion-missile launchers probably can hold the higher-yield torpedoes that we read about in the books given that they seemed rather effective in ROTJ, so I doubt that the cube will last long if the Falcon chooses to employ them. Though, isn't the yield for an LTL six megatons as per the AOTC:ICS? Since when was six megatons enough to hurt a Borg cube seeing that the Enterprise-D's entire weapons arsenal couldn't so much as scratch a Borg cube after one had adapted in "Q Who?" and afterwards in "BoBW" ?
6 megatons is roughly on par with Trek capital ship weapons, which blew the smithereens out of the Borg cube in Q Who before they adapted. That they can adapt to Wars weapons is on you to show, especially as Borg adaption seems to depend heavily on frequency shenanigans, while Wars weapons...don't?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
fordlltwm
Padawan Learner
Posts: 216
Joined: 2012-01-17 12:22pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by fordlltwm »

If the Falcons still fitted with her A.C.Crispin (Rebel Dawn) era comm jammers, then just activating them shuts down the hive mind and the cube self destructs. If memory serves those jammers were able to block signals from the cockpit to the rest of the ship causing the whole ship to nearly fall out of orbit, so a race of drones dependant on being interconnected shouldn't be a problem.


(possibly not a serious suggestion, though if memory serves the jammers cause issues in Courtship as well)
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Captain Seafort »

Batman wrote:
Since when was six megatons enough to hurt a Borg cube seeing that the Enterprise-D's entire weapons arsenal couldn't so much as scratch a Borg cube after one had adapted in "Q Who?" and afterwards in "BoBW" ?
6 megatons is roughly on par with Trek capital ship weapons, which blew the smithereens out of the Borg cube in Q Who before they adapted. That they can adapt to Wars weapons is on you to show, especially as Borg adaption seems to depend heavily on frequency shenanigans, while Wars weapons...don't?
6 Mt is on par with the deflector dish cannon they expected to kill the cube, assuming its output is the same as the mass-lightening field they were producing in Deja Q.
User avatar
the atom
Padawan Learner
Posts: 320
Joined: 2011-07-13 11:39am

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by the atom »

Captain Seafort wrote:6 Mt is on par with the deflector dish cannon they expected to kill the cube, assuming its output is the same as the mass-lightening field they were producing in Deja Q.
That all largely depends on which power generation figures you want to go off of. I forget the name of the episode, but Data does describe the total reactor output as equivalent to something like 2 gigatons. I know years of ST vs. SW debating here has kinda produced a situation where Star Trek has to be a billion times weaker then Wars in every way ( :P ), but come on people.
"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste..."
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Batman »

2 GT is like one percent of the output of a single Acclamator MTL and I don't recall Data ever saying that, unless you're referring to the 'XYZ gigawatts per second' comment that not only makes no sense but was also never completed. A 400GW particle beam managed to drop the Big E's shields in 'The Survivors'. Assuming the bolt interaction with the shield lasts a whole second, the wattage of a measly 6 MT LTL is 2.508E16W.
Yes. I think a fourteen orders of magnitude differential between an ISD's small guns and the E-D's shield capacity means they're essentially screwed.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
Boeing 757
Padawan Learner
Posts: 338
Joined: 2007-10-30 05:48pm
Location: Εν ενί γαλαξία μένω, ον συ ου δύνασαι ευρείν χωρίς διαστημικού οχήματος.

Re: The Millennium Falcon vs. a Borg Cube

Post by Boeing 757 »

Batman wrote:
Boeing 757 wrote:
Batman wrote:Small juking Star Trek targets. The Falcon has massively higher linear acceleration if nothing else and the Borg can do that (and lock on tractor beams) to ships sitting practically on top of them.
I don't believe that we have hard data pertaining to how quickly Borg cubes can accelerate, aside from a throwaway line in Scorpion that they can outpace Voyager at sublight. I know that the TNG Tech Manual claims that the Enterprise-D's acceleration stands at 1000 Gs, but the Tech Manual never made it into Paramount's framework of what constitutes Trek canon as far as I know. The Falcon on the other hand likely can't accelerate more than 3000 Gs given that this is how quickly ISDs can accelerate, and they can catch up to the Falcon rather easily in the films. So without further data I'm not sure how you could confidently claim that the Falcon's linear acceleration is somehow exceedingly greater.
That'd be the part were if we go by the visuals, as per STIII 1/4 impulse means roughly 8g. Feel free to show evidence that Borg acceleration is anywhere near thousands of gs.
As I said earlier, it's largely an unknown, but Trek acceleration does seem to fall along a wide range of values. Eight Gs is rather low compared to other stuff...moreover it comes from an older source of canon. Other examples which I can recall off the top of my head are those of Voyager decelerating at 100 Gs - 200 Gs in "Basics," and supposedly in the episode "Swarm" Voyager pulled off a minimum acceleration of 5000 Gs (I haven't checked that last one, so I can't confirm that for myself). There is also one other high-end example for which I can personally vouch from the episode "Relics" where the U.S.S. Jenolan covers a distance of 250,000 km in roughly five minutes using impulse, which comes out to a whooping 85,000 Gs...although I take that generally as an outlier given that it's never been demonstrated again.

Why would she ever get that close to a massively large totally unknown ship? And that's ignoring that the crew is probably going to bolt moment the Space Zombies do their inevitable assimilation speech.
The OP did specify that a Borg cube happened to come upon the Falcon, so I assume both ships have engaged one another.
It most definitely did not. It says 'comes across', nothing more. No mention of the MF starting out in tractor beam range.
Fair enough.
And of course, at which point in the Falcon's long and illustrious career this happens. The quads-see above. With concussion missile launchers-those can carry (if smallish by Wars standards) anti-capship warheads even in fighter scale mounts, and the Falcon does have room for bigger than that. The LTLs mentioned somewhere in the EU-this could end badly for the Borg, especially if their defenses can't adapt.
I think that the Falcon's concussion-missile launchers probably can hold the higher-yield torpedoes that we read about in the books given that they seemed rather effective in ROTJ, so I doubt that the cube will last long if the Falcon chooses to employ them. Though, isn't the yield for an LTL six megatons as per the AOTC:ICS? Since when was six megatons enough to hurt a Borg cube seeing that the Enterprise-D's entire weapons arsenal couldn't so much as scratch a Borg cube after one had adapted in "Q Who?" and afterwards in "BoBW" ?
6 megatons is roughly on par with Trek capital ship weapons, which blew the smithereens out of the Borg cube in Q Who before they adapted.
Agreed.
That they can adapt to Wars weapons is on you to show, especially as Borg adaption seems to depend heavily on frequency shenanigans, while Wars weapons...don't?
Does it really even matter given that it won't help them even if they did manage it?
Omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium.

Kritisches Denken schützt vor Illusionen.

Παν μέτρον άριστον τῷ κρατίστῳ.
Post Reply