So. Ship armor

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Daefaron
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So. Ship armor

Post by Daefaron »

Thinking about it (in a recent debate of TOS connie vs ISD, ongoing but the other guys an idiot).

Durasteel is made using some Neutronium, and some ships (acclimator) have a lot of it in their hulls.

Since Star Trek cannot scan through Neutronium, or even scratch it. Wouldn't this make most Star Wars ships with thick durasteel armor plating nearly invulnerable to Star Trek weapons?
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

There's no guarantees that they call the same thing neutronium. So maybe, maybe not.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

It depends if there's anything in SW that refers to one of the components of Durasteel as being neutronium or not.

Interestingly, ST's Duranium actually does appear in both franchises.

From Wookieepedia:
Duranium was a substance much stronger than either Transparisteel or Bronzium. It was extremely durable, light, and was capable of withstanding a glancing blow from a lightsaber; however, it also had a very high melting point, making it difficult to shape. It was however, fool proof against blasters and slugthrowers, only the continuous heat of a lightsaber able to melt through it, and this would take up to half an hour. It was often used in making prison cells and cages.
From Memory Alpha:
Duranium is an extremely strong metallic substance that was used in alloys for hull construction of the starships and space stations of numerous cultures, including Andorians, Cardassians, Ferengi, Humans, Klingons, and Trabe.
<snip>
During the Dominion War, the Gallamites were supplying duranium to the Federation for the war effort. (DS9: "Penumbra")
Again, there's no way of knowing if it's the same stuff and how effective blasters and other such weapons would be against it.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Daefaron »

Well, the star wars wiki page has Neutronium as a part of Durasteel.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Mask-999 »

If neutronium is indeed part of durasteel, then with a thick enough plating, that would make it invulnerable to conventional Star Trek Phasers.
Shown in the last DS9 episode, a door less than 1m thick made of neutronium was impervious to handheld phaser fire with it being stated only high explosives would do anything more than scratch the door.
Since incorporation of neutronium into durasteel would obviously happen on a larger scale than a simple door, it's logical to assume at some point/ thickness, durasteel would become impervious to the upscaled versions of phaser fire which Federation ships carry.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Batman »

Unless that door massed in at somewhere upwards of a million tons it was not made up of solid real neutronium and there's already strong indication of Trek neutronium not being the real deal (TNG's 'Relics' comes to mind-Scotty's ship leaves a clearly noticeable trench in the allegedly neutronium surface of the Dyson Sphere).
Of course, wether or not Wars neutronium is the real deal and to which extent it figures into durasteel composition isn't all that well documented either.
I thought durasteel was merely 'impregnated' with neutronium to massively increase its thermal conductivity.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Darth Ruinus »

I heard that the neutronium in the ships of SW hulls were just small pellets, not actual slabs or armor.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Sinon »

Daefaron wrote:Since Star Trek cannot scan through Neutronium, or even scratch it. Wouldn't this make most Star Wars ships with thick durasteel armor plating nearly invulnerable to Star Trek weapons?
Not sure about the ships with impregnated Neutronium, truthfully I have never read about them. However just because Neutronium is used in the making of durasteel does not mean that it has any of the properties of neutronium. It could only be a catalyst used to bind two other metals into an alloy, or used to enhance or remove a property of the metal.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Boeing 757 »

Batman is wholly correct: that door would have weighed so much, had it been been true neutronium. It would have been impossible to stand next to it. For hell's sake, only a teaspoon of the stuff weighs a few billion tons. :shock: That door would have sunken right through the ground on which it stood, so it is highly unlikely that it is the real deal.

I also don't know whether the neutronium built into SW durasteel is the true stuff for that matter. If it is, it seems as if there is not enough of it to hinder an asteroid from denting the armor. Either way, it does not make SW armor invincible.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Baffalo »

There are, according to Wikipedia, several types of neutronium. The super-dense material found at the center of neutron stars is but one type, and often the densest. However, any type of material made up entirely of neutrons (such as the center of gas giants such as Jupiter) could be labelled as neutronium with densities much less than what is typically observed in neutron stars.

If that's the case, then there might be expeditions to star systems with an abundance of jupiter-sized planets with cores rich in neutronium that is mined via atmospheric disruption (removing the atmosphere to reduce the planet's total mass) until the core is accessible. With an accessible core but no mass to actually cause further matter to undergo neutronium compression, mining the core would be relatively simple.

That, or they're able to mass-produce mononeutronium or similar particles in sufficient quantities that they're able to create small balls that can be cast along with normal metals to produce composite materials that work much better than they would independently. Either way, it's possible that while the exact nature of the neutronium is unknown, the level of sophistication in either extracting or producing neutronium shows a level of capability far surpassing Trek's.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Connor MacLeod »

The whole 'durasteel made with neutronium' came up because it was mentioned in 'Cracken's Threat dossier'. Except that other sources I knew of (the Sansweet Star Wars Encyclopedia) and Guide to the Star Wars Universe (both versions) mentioned the 'neutronium' bit being part of 'dura-armor' which isn't the same thing as durasteel. Dura armour was made of lommite (used in transparisteel as well) zersium, and neutronium, and had the capability to absorb and redirect blaster fire (not unlike the 'powered'/superconducting armour of the Grand Army gunships and walkers.)

I've generally come ot the conclusion that 'armour' in Star Wars quite simply isn't a matter of sticking large volumes of inert material in front of the attack and hope it gets stopped - EG the armour is just a non forcefield sort of shielding.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Baffalo »

Connor MacLeod wrote:I've generally come ot the conclusion that 'armour' in Star Wars quite simply isn't a matter of sticking large volumes of inert material in front of the attack and hope it gets stopped - EG the armour is just a non forcefield sort of shielding.
I have to agree, simply because of the following dialog:
[Han, Luke, Leia and Chewie land in the trash compactor]
Han Solo: Garbage chute. Really wonderful idea. What an incredible smell you've discovered! Let's get out of here! Get away from there...
Luke: No, wait...!
[Han draws his laser pistol and fires at the hatch. The laser bolt ricochets wildly around the small room. Everyone dives for cover in the garbage as the bolt finally explodes]
Luke: Will you forget it? I already tried it. It's magnetically sealed!
Princess Leia: Put that thing away, you're gonna get us all killed!
If it was a forcefield, wouldn't he call it that? Or maybe the elements within the compactor let them channel electricity through the metal to make it resistant to the plasma from blasters and lasers. If they can do that on a small scale, gearing it up for a larger ship, even if it's only resistant afterwards instead of completely immune to blaster fire, would be a vast improvement should shields ever fail completely.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Enigma »

I think that scene describes two different things. One is that the hatch and the compactor itself is blaster proof and the hatch itself uses some sort of magnetic source to seal it shut. Not that the hatch being magnetically sealed means it could deflect blaster fire.
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Re: So. Ship armor

Post by Luke Skywalker »

Connor MacLeod wrote:The whole 'durasteel made with neutronium' came up because it was mentioned in 'Cracken's Threat dossier'. Except that other sources I knew of (the Sansweet Star Wars Encyclopedia) and Guide to the Star Wars Universe (both versions) mentioned the 'neutronium' bit being part of 'dura-armor' which isn't the same thing as durasteel. Dura armour was made of lommite (used in transparisteel as well) zersium, and neutronium, and had the capability to absorb and redirect blaster fire (not unlike the 'powered'/superconducting armour of the Grand Army gunships and walkers.)

I've generally come ot the conclusion that 'armour' in Star Wars quite simply isn't a matter of sticking large volumes of inert material in front of the attack and hope it gets stopped - EG the armour is just a non forcefield sort of shielding.
It doesn't matter - the ICS specifically mentions it as being a part of an Acclamator's armor, IIRC.

Demonstrated capabilities are more important than labels, anyhow. Being able to withstand the stresses of thousands of G's of acceleration is already far beyond what typical Federation weaponry can handle. Of course, there's also the Invisible Hand burning up in Coruscant's atmosphere... :mrgreen:
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