Federation Phaser 100% Accuracy BS

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2002-07-12 04:29pm

Over at Spacebattles.com the trekkies are once again reviving their claims that Federation phasers always shoot with perfect, 100% accuracy, and at the range of 300,000 km. Does anyone else think this arguments are as incredibly stupid as I do? It has no bearing on the overall SW vs. ST debate, since SW ships can take anything ST can dish out, and the Trek ships BETTER not be missing targets as large as ISDs. Yet the trekkies still insist on this idiocy, probably so they can masturbate to the thought of ST ships effortlessly cutting down entire wings of SW fighters.

Whenever evidence is shown of poor accuracy of in starship combat, the Trekkies simply dismiss it by saying "Those weren't Federation phasers, which are perfect." Oh yeah, like phasers are that much better just because they come from the Feds. Aren't most of the big AQ groups, like the Klingons, Feds, Romulons, Cardassians, etc. supposed to be at similar tech levels anyway? When DS9's poor accuracy was brought up, they brushed it off by claiming that the station used a Cardassian computer. As if Cardassian tech was so inferior that just using it would bring you down from perfect all the way down to crap. And what about BOBW, when the Borg, a race with technology far beyond the Federation, missed the Enterprise at close range after the ship made a simple turn? So far, the Trek side has yet to show proof that Federation targeting is so much more advanced than anyone elses, to the point where the Feds are perfect and everyone else can't hit the broadside of a barn at close range.

I also find it interesting that the Trekkies conveniently ignore the multitude of evidence disproving their bullshit claims of perfection. Indeed, the very system of Trek naval combat would be meaningless if Trek ships can destroy anything within range with perfect accuracy. What would be the point of battle lines and flanking maneuvers if no one ever missed?

They also never seem to analyze the evidence they keep bringing up. We continually hear about the Enterprise destroying 3 attacking fighters. Wow, it can hit 3 slow moving, unmaneuvering ships at point-blank range. The same goes for a lot of the other evidence they use. What's so amazing about hitting a large target at close visual range, with little to no relative motion to your own ship? Also, can it be that the brief moments of combat they see are when the ship had a good lock and was pretty much guaranteed a shot? And isn't it usually the Enterprise, with its main character cast that always makes the shot? How would the Trekkies like it if the SW side were to judge the performance of SW troops by Luke, Wedge, and Han?

Finally, I find it amazing that Trekkies even use the descriptions of perfect and 100% to describe Trek accuracy. It would be ok if they said it was "pretty good" or that they shot well in the battle scenes shown, but Trekkies continually insist that it's perfect. As if anything within range would be instantly hit. Sorry, but nothing is perfect. It's extremely annoying when the Trekkies say this, and they do so with the stuck up "Trek is God" mentality, only they try to maintain a facade of logic and objectivity.

Sorry if this rant got a little long. It's just that this is one of the oldest and dumbest of Trekkie arguments, and one of the last great few which most of them still cling to.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 04:30pm

Well, most examples I see are either at very close range, at large targets, or unmaneuvering targets. Or combinations.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-12 04:33pm

Yup to what GAT said. Give me a link and I'll go mock them Jim.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 04:34pm

David wrote:Yup to what GAT said. Give me a link and I'll go mock them Jim.

Le SpaceBattlers
http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... adid=31847

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 05:45pm

Jim Raynor wrote:Over at Spacebattles.com the trekkies are once again reviving their claims that Federation phasers always shoot with perfect, 100% accuracy, and at the range of 300,000 km. Does anyone else think this arguments are as incredibly stupid as I do? It has no bearing on the overall SW vs. ST debate, since SW ships can take anything ST can dish out, and the Trek ships BETTER not be missing targets as large as ISDs. Yet the trekkies still insist on this idiocy, probably so they can masturbate to the thought of ST ships effortlessly cutting down entire wings of SW fighters.

I hope you don't mind being called a liar to your face, but that is exactly what you are sir....a fucking liar. Nobody in that thread was claiming 100% total accuracy, what was being defended in that UFP accuracy is shit.

Whenever evidence is shown of poor accuracy of in starship combat, the Trekkies simply dismiss it by saying "Those weren't Federation phasers, which are perfect." Oh yeah, like phasers are that much better just because they come from the Feds. Aren't most of the big AQ groups, like the Klingons, Feds, Romulons, Cardassians, etc. supposed to be at similar tech levels anyway? When DS9's poor accuracy was brought up, they brushed it off by claiming that the station used a Cardassian computer. As if Cardassian tech was so inferior that just using it would bring you down from perfect all the way down to crap. And what about BOBW, when the Borg, a race with technology far beyond the Federation, missed the Enterprise at close range after the ship made a simple turn? So far, the Trek side has yet to show proof that Federation targeting is so much more advanced than anyone elses, to the point where the Feds are perfect and everyone else can't hit the broadside of a barn at close range.

Once again the topic of the thread is UFP phasers, so what's the problem with stating the non-UFP weapons are irrelevant?

Does DS9 have a Cardassian computer system or not? Yes or no? If no, what episode was it replaced in, quotes please?

Cardassian tech is inferior to TNG UFP, perhaps you haven't seen the episode "The Wounded" in which the E-D disables a Galor class cruiser with just 3-4 phaser blasts, and this is after the E-D was fired on by the cruiser with her shields down.

IIRC the Borg missed the Enterprise in BOBW because of the antimatter spread that was supposed to confused their sensors.

I also find it interesting that the Trekkies conveniently ignore the multitude of evidence disproving their bullshit claims of perfection. Indeed, the very system of Trek naval combat would be meaningless if Trek ships can destroy anything within range with perfect accuracy. What would be the point of battle lines and flanking maneuvers if no one ever missed?

Once again nobody has claimed perfect accuracy. ALI_G only presented evidence of episodes with 100% UFP phaser accuracy.

They also never seem to analyze the evidence they keep bringing up. We continually hear about the Enterprise destroying 3 attacking fighters. Wow, it can hit 3 slow moving, unmaneuvering ships at point-blank range. The same goes for a lot of the other evidence they use. What's so amazing about hitting a large target at close visual range, with little to no relative motion to your own ship? Also, can it be that the brief moments of combat they see are when the ship had a good lock and was pretty much guaranteed a shot? And isn't it usually the Enterprise, with its main character cast that always makes the shot? How would the Trekkies like it if the SW side were to judge the performance of SW troops by Luke, Wedge, and Han?

Still it was perfect accuracy was it not? The topic is accuracy, not whether the targets were moving at 1km/s or FTL.

Finally, I find it amazing that Trekkies even use the descriptions of perfect and 100% to describe Trek accuracy. It would be ok if they said it was "pretty good" or that they shot well in the battle scenes shown, but Trekkies continually insist that it's perfect. As if anything within range would be instantly hit. Sorry, but nothing is perfect. It's extremely annoying when the Trekkies say this, and they do so with the stuck up "Trek is God" mentality, only they try to maintain a facade of logic and objectivity.

Frankly, you should pay more attention to detail. The only thing going on in this thread is the defense of "UFP accuracy is shit"

I challenge you to find an instance where UFP accuracy was below 70%, with the ship functioning at 100%.

The Defiant is really your best hope......but that is after all a fixed weapon but it does fall under the accuracy umbrella.

<snip retarded "suck up to Pro-SW people">

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 05:47pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Well, most examples I see are either at very close range, at large targets, or unmaneuvering targets. Or combinations.

That may be true, but that does still not change the fact that the accuracy is < 70%

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 05:57pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Well, most examples I see are either at very close range, at large targets, or unmaneuvering targets. Or combinations.
That may be true, but that does still not change the fact that the accuracy is < 70%

Against those easy targets...

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 06:04pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Well, most examples I see are either at very close range, at large targets, or unmaneuvering targets. Or combinations.
That may be true, but that does still not change the fact that the accuracy is < 70%

Against those easy targets...

However, that does not mean it won't be against more challenging targets.

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2002-07-12 06:09pm

Unless you can prove otherwise, then yes it does Kamikaze Sith. .

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-12 06:10pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote: However, that does not mean it won't be against more challenging targets.

I remember in "Dragons Teeth" not very maneuvering ships avoided a phaser lock.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 06:14pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: However, that does not mean it won't be against more challenging targets.

I remember in "Dragons Teeth" not very maneuvering ships avoided a phaser lock.

Actually Tuvok stated that it was difficult to get a phaser lock.

Not very maneuvering ships, in comparison to what?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-12 07:09pm

A dead South Afiran Swallow?
A Rock?
A big sitting in the middle of a pasutre?

IE this are Huge 100 Meter+ Size objects traveling in strait lines and they missed by quite a bit

70% Accacry aginst easy Targets General means MUCH worse accrasy aginst Hard Targets

Thats just plain common sense. They would not be EASY Targets if they where not EASY

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-12 07:19pm

If Trek can claim perfection here, can I claim a Death Star superlaser never misses?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-12 07:25pm

TL shots never miss either, since we've only seen one shot (which hit).

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-12 07:26pm

HTLs rather.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 07:29pm

SirNitram wrote:If Trek can claim perfection here, can I claim a Death Star superlaser never misses?

But nobody is claiming perfection, or are you going to jump on Jim Raynors wagon here and ignore what is really going on in that thread?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 07:29pm

VF5SS wrote:Unless you can prove otherwise, then yes it does Kamikaze Sith. .

Your absolutely right. I withdraw that statement.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-12 07:51pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
SirNitram wrote:If Trek can claim perfection here, can I claim a Death Star superlaser never misses?
But nobody is claiming perfection, or are you going to jump on Jim Raynors wagon here and ignore what is really going on in that thread?

Do they have humour on your planet?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 07:58pm

SirNitram wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
SirNitram wrote:If Trek can claim perfection here, can I claim a Death Star superlaser never misses?
But nobody is claiming perfection, or are you going to jump on Jim Raynors wagon here and ignore what is really going on in that thread?

Do they have humour on your planet?

You did not indicate that you were joking...that is what those faces are for. I assumed you were being serious. I apologize.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-12 08:35pm

Heh.. I deliver most of my jokes deadpan in RL, so this isn't any different. If it sounds absurd, it's probably a joke.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 08:38pm

SirNitram wrote:Heh.. I deliver most of my jokes deadpan in RL, so this isn't any different. If it sounds absurd, it's probably a joke.

Noted

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-12 09:08pm

Ah, they will not listen to reason at sb. I shall laugh from afar.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-07-12 09:35pm

David wrote:Ah, they will not listen to reason at sb. I shall laugh from afar.

Have you posted under this thread at SB?

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2002-07-13 02:58am

Phasers,just like any other weapon in existence (even in sci-fi) are only as accurate as the person shooting them and the targeting computer assisting him.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-07-13 05:49am

The thing to remember, KS, is that the nature of the target DOES matter. While I hate to automatically turn towards the "Look how you act towards the OTHER side of the debate!" tactic, I will mention that oftentimes, accuracy of SW ships is called into question because of their lack of scored shots against fighters.

Obviously, someone who claims that SW weaponry sucks because capital weaponry can't hit fighters, and then turns around and claims that Trek accuracy is great because capital weapons hit capital ships, is being dishonest.

And no, I'm not accusing you - or anyone, specifically - of trying to pull this tactic. Just pointing out how the nature of the target should be considered when discussing accuracy.

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