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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 01:23am
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Norade wrote:
Stofsk wrote:
Norade wrote:
The script is not the episode in question and seeing as there are often changes between script and screen that simply won't do.

Are you claiming the televised episode differs from the script in some way? Are you going to attempt to prove that?

I'm saying that I have no way of knowing if it does or not without him posting a link to the episode. I don't really care for Trek and thus don't have episodes laying around at home.

How do you propose he do that? Rip the episode off a DVD and post a rapidshare download link? That's against the site's rules.

Even posting a youtube link would probably be a technical violation, but nobody cares. But if it were that easy, you could have googled it on youtube by now.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 01:46am
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Stofsk wrote:
How do you propose he do that? Rip the episode off a DVD and post a rapidshare download link? That's against the site's rules.

Even posting a youtube link would probably be a technical violation, but nobody cares. But if it were that easy, you could have googled it on youtube by now.


Youtube links fly all the time. It's not on me to do his work for him. If he can't post the proof then he loses.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 01:51am
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It doesn't appear to be on Youtube, anyway. But it's pretty great that your perception of who wins boils down to whether it is.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 01:52am
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He did post his proof. If you don't accept it's now up to you to demonstrate why it should be excluded. You've attacked the veracity of the script and claimed that it is in error in comparison to the televised episode by default, without even bothering to prove it. Youtube links do fly so it shouldn't be too difficult for you to post a youtube link to the episode in question- oh wait, there is none.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 02:30am
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Batman wrote:
But that would require him to show she was actually wrong. Blithely disregarding it and hoping nobody notices (not that I see why he'd think that would fly here, mind you) is so much easier..


Following the discussion on that thread pretty much does that so why do it again, although it is interesting to see that you and others think he was right but not surprising considering where we are.

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As for the newbies not being allowed to rehash arguments that have been dead for over a decade, why should we?.


The point is why shouldn't you allow newbies to enjoy themselves?.


Quote:
And yes, I'm including myself in this because let's face it, Trek vs Wars was dead before this forum was created. There's nothing in the Board Rules that says we're guaranteed the right to rehash topics that were solved for keeps 10 years ago (leave alone on this forum).


I have seen some of the so called solutions and you may wanna check your dictionary.

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 02:50am
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Norade wrote:
Except that I don't care to do calculations for something that has already been done. Hell, even when I do the numbers DXIII makes up some bullshit and tries to pass it off as being a great theory even though it has holes you can drive a truck through. So instead he gets this, show a single weapon, deployable against starships, and in common federarion use that can hit with anywhere near 200GT per shot. Then go find one that puts out even more because that's far less than an ISD can dish.


I have to ask. do you own copies of any of the icses? the complete one? have you actually looked at the numbers in detail and the various references in them, or do you go by what is "generally accepted" on this forum based on that info? have you actually ever looked at ANY of the eu info discussed in this forum or on the website? There's actually a wide gulf between the "generally agreed" on the forum or site and what is actually in the material. I can actually make a claim to having worked with and having knowledge of much of that material I can say with confidence that even HAVING the ICS numbers doesn't solve everything. It helps a great deal and it takes some of the ambiguity out of things (assuming the other side will give the ICS any credence, or can be forced to, at least) but you still have to work the numbers yourself, and you still have to do the research, and make the connections. That's how its ALWAYS been with SW material, and that's what I've always had to do.

On the other hand the ICS has made the vs debates even more retarded by converting discussions almost entirely over to canon debates, which are both tedious and boring, because people treat the ICS as some sort of fucking cornerstone (for or against it, they both treat it as the critical source) and everything else pretty much gets chucked by the wayside, when the ICS should simply represent yet another source (although one of the better ones, although since i am credited in it I can claim to be biased there) amongst the larger picture.

I've come to the point where i actually hate relying the ICSes because it labels you automatically as a fanboy, or people will assume you're part of some vast, nebulous Evil Warsie conspiracy (and I wish I was kidding about that. Use of the ICS can get you labeled as a Saxton cultist in some places.)

For that matter why does ANY of this have to come down to whether single scenes, passages, incidents or whatever are valid or not. Like TDiC. does it really fucking matter whether it was brute force or not? Even if we allowed for them to sling around teratons of firepower to decimate a planet's crust and mantle, as some Trekkies have claimed the "one hour/5 hour' dialogue should be interpeted, how does this neccesarily translate to ship to ship firepower? (Same with BDZ really. tossing billions of megatons at a planet or even melting the crust may be impressive, but that doesn't mean they turn that firepower on starships routinely, either.)

Edit: and a someone who likes to crunch numbers from a sci fi universe (SW, 40k, B5, etc.) I tend to vastly prefer someone who can do their own math and come up with their own numbers, or who will do their own analysis independent or perhaps compatible with mine, than to someone who simply parrots what i say or who just uses my numbers because they can't be bothered to do the math themselves. because I can bet you in most cases those people won't understand how I got those numbers, or the underlying assumptions involved. and if they don't know that, they can't explain it. and there is nothing more annoying to me than someone using my numbers without understanding them (and it happens quite a bit, if you look at 40k debates on Spacebattles.)



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 01:12pm
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Connor MacLeod wrote:
I've come to the point where i actually hate relying the ICSes because it labels you automatically as a fanboy, or people will assume you're part of some vast, nebulous Evil Warsie conspiracy (and I wish I was kidding about that. Use of the ICS can get you labeled as a Saxton cultist in some places.)

Oh, for fucks sake grow a spine, Connor. I've seen you bitch and moan and piss and bitch and whine and cry like a fucking baby about how the VS debate works for so long its getting to be more cliche and annoying than the trektards of old. No, let me rephrase that-- its getting more cliche and annoying than arguments about trigger guards. Are you seriously going to be intimidated by the kind of person who thinks these are valid arguments? One, you obviously are a fanboy if you are going to argue a VS debate in the first place and its nothing to be ashamed of. That just means you are interested in the debate. Second, the kind of person who calls you a warsie conspirator for applying logic to fiction and coming to *gasp* conclusions about said fiction is the kind of bleeding sophist creationist wannabe troll that might as well be mocked or ignored.

So you've had a few bad experiences arguing about sci-fi, Star Wars, and WH40K. I get that, I really do. But you know what won't change debating standards? Being a bloody coward.

When was the last time you actually stood up for an argument, Connor? When was the last time you actually bothered to take a stand for the facts rather than trying to apply vasaline to the facts? When was the last time you actually made an argument against the board consensus rather than simply pointing out that there is a board consensus? I can't think of when that was, and its a shame because I know once upon a time you did do these things and that wasn't even before my time here! All you ever seem to do nowadays is point out alternative possibilities or unknown variables to people's arguments without qualifying them into more likely or less likely, upper limit and lower limit, more relevant and less relevant. You're the opposite of the guy who can't see the forest for the trees; you can no longer see a tree for all its foliage. All you ever seem to do is whine about how the debaters go about their business without bothering to look at what it is they are doing. And sure, there is a lot of intellectually lazy arguments thrown around, I won't dismiss that. Newbies like to rehash the obvious, and there isn't much going on in the Star Wars franchise and even less going on in Star Trek. But looking at how you describe the participants of this debate and the dynamics of the debate itself, and comparing it to what I actually see, it feels like you are trying to write a SouthPark script about this forum.

Take your cheese and go, Connor. If you don't like what you see here you really can save yourself and us the loss of sanity, and you will have a lot less piss on your pants if you stop aiming it at the wind.














I'm sorry, I just needed to get that out of my system. I just can't believe that you would be so sensitive to trolling like this.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 02:38pm
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Formless wrote:
Oh, for fucks sake grow a spine, Connor. I've seen you bitch and moan and piss and bitch and whine and cry like a fucking baby about how the VS debate works for so long its getting to be more cliche and annoying than the trektards of old. No, let me rephrase that-- its getting more cliche and annoying than arguments about trigger guards. Are you seriously going to be intimidated by the kind of person who thinks these are valid arguments? One, you obviously are a fanboy if you are going to argue a VS debate in the first place and its nothing to be ashamed of. That just means you are interested in the debate.


No, it means i'm uninterested in beating my chest and soothing my ego by trying to shout someone else down through endless walls of text and "me too" flaming. I'm not above flaming someone who actually fucking deserves it, but "I hold a different opinion from you" is not enough of a justification, even though there have been a good many people on this board who do precisely that.

So I'm soo sorry that i'm poking holes in your little desire to have an excuse to flame and be an internet tough guy. I'm going to go cry into my pillow now because you were so mean to me and i don't have a spine. :lol:

Quote:
Second, the kind of person who calls you a warsie conspirator for applying logic to fiction and coming to *gasp* conclusions about said fiction is the kind of bleeding sophist creationist wannabe troll that might as well be mocked or ignored.

So you've had a few bad experiences arguing about sci-fi, Star Wars, and WH40K. I get that, I really do. But you know what won't change debating standards? Being a bloody coward.


*GASP* you don't say? Damn, I never would have figured this out! Glad i have you to tell me these things, otherwise i wouldn't be able to sleep at nights thinking my critics might actually be right! Back to crying into my pillow.

Quote:
When was the last time you actually stood up for an argument, Connor? When was the last time you actually bothered to take a stand for the facts rather than trying to apply vasaline to the facts? When was the last time you actually made an argument against the board consensus rather than simply pointing out that there is a board consensus? I can't think of when that was, and its a shame because I know once upon a time you did do these things and that wasn't even before my time here! All you ever seem to do nowadays is point out alternative possibilities or unknown variables to people's arguments without qualifying them into more likely or less likely, upper limit and lower limit, more relevant and less relevant. You're the opposite of the guy who can't see the forest for the trees; you can no longer see a tree for all its foliage. All you ever seem to do is whine about how the debaters go about their business without bothering to look at what it is they are doing. And sure, there is a lot of intellectually lazy arguments thrown around, I won't dismiss that. Newbies like to rehash the obvious, and there isn't much going on in the Star Wars franchise and even less going on in Star Trek. But looking at how you describe the participants of this debate and the dynamics of the debate itself, and comparing it to what I actually see, it feels like you are trying to write a SouthPark script about this forum.


Excuse me? I've been 'standing up" for an argument in this very damn thread with D13. Just because i'm not lunging for his throat foaming at the mouth and calling him a "fucking retard" doesn't mean I'm not defending a position. Forgive me for preferring an approach that might actually, oh, I don't know, get some fucking results.

Now, that screed has exhausted my ability to stand up for myself. I feel like another good cry. :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 02:44pm
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Oh yes, and if I went after Norade the way he goes after D13, becuase Norade has said things and acted in ways that GREATLY aggravate me from time to time, he more than likely would have gotten pissed off and offended in turn, and it would have turned into a flame war between us. People in my experience don't like being jumped on regardless of whether it is justified or not, and that can be an obstacle to actually arguing a point. I'd like to think restraining myself and NOt venting my frustrations at Norade might actually get something accomplished than just saying he's wrong and calling him names.

Now, if I were dealing with utterly unreasonable people who disagree AND are being either stubbornly ignorant or dishonest about it, THEN I would happily flame them. But those tend to be much rarer, and usually are looneys to boot. (EG some of my more vehement 40K critics.)

Edit: For that matter i don't always like what D13 says either. I think he's wrong about Mike and his perception of him, and of Mike's site, but insulting HIM over that is not going to get anything settled, either.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 02:54pm
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Connor the CryBaby wrote:
No, it means i'm uninterested in beating my chest and soothing my ego by trying to shout someone else down through endless walls of text and "me too" flaming. I'm not above flaming someone who actually fucking deserves it, but "I hold a different opinion from you" is not enough of a justification, even though there have been a good many people on this board who do precisely that.

So I'm soo sorry that i'm poking holes in your little desire to have an excuse to flame and be an internet tough guy. I'm going to go cry into my pillow now because you were so mean to me and i don't have a spine. :lol:

I direct you to Administrative Rule 4: "if you hate the board, leave". Want to know my opinion of this trash you're spewing? I think you are flaming a strawman of the entire fucking sci-fi forum. At worst you can say that some people are bad at mockery. And even then, that says absolutely nothing about whether or not they are right. If all you're here for is to make a massive style over substance screed, then I and everyone else on this board is fully justified in flaming the ever living fuck out of you.

Edit: let me put it this way, Connor. The senate is dead, yet you still seem to be in that mode.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 03:13pm
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Oh boohoo, you're mad because I DARE to suggest that simply yelling back and forth at each other is an inefficient way to resolve things and that maybe we should try something else? HERESY! BURN THE WITCH! Because if this board needs one thing, its more pages and pages of people yelling at each other to no purpose, *I'm a smarmy asshole*?

You sound exactly like the butthurt fanboys that lurk in their out of the way little forums muttering about evil warsie conspiracies just because others refuse to play by their rules (CONSPIRACY!). I guess it's too much for me to expect that the first two parts of the board motto might have equal if not greater importance than the last one, huh? :lol:

Ps: I really like how you interpret "dislike of the vs debate approach to resolving things" into "hatred for SDN as a whole." that's quite a deduction you made Mr. Holmes :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 03:33pm
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Keep digging your own grave, Connor, you just keep proving my point that you're a whiny bullshitting little bitch who has yet to get out of senator mode.

Connor McCryBaby wrote:
Ps: I really like how you interpret "dislike of the vs debate approach to resolving things" into "hatred for SDN as a whole." that's quite a deduction you made Mr. Holmes :mrgreen:

I don't give a flying fuck about vs debating anymore. Vs debating is intellectually poisonous.

Here's a hint, retard, my accusations only apply to the sci-fi forums. But in that this very page is full of your bullshit generalizations about said forums, yeah I'm invoking AR4. Deal with it, or get out.



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"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.


Last edited by Formless on 2011-06-28 03:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 03:37pm
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Formless wrote:
I don't give a flying fuck about vs debating anymore. Vs debating is intellectually poisonous.

Here's a hint, retard, my accusations only apply to the sci-fi forums. But in that this very page is full of your bullshit generalizations about said forums, yeah I'm invoking AR4. Deal with it, or get out.


Except that a.) you're claiming my statements apply to the whole of the sci fi forum, when I am ONLY talking about vs debating in general. The two are not the same, whatever you may think. b.) you're also telling me to leave the board, which by extension suggests you think I actually hate the board, when I have never actually stated such or given any indication. THere's far more to this board than vs debating, you know.

but hey, go ahead. Keep ranting.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 03:39pm
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Actually, I'm telling you to get out of the VS debate (which is generally confined to the sci-fi forum, so its basically the same thing), but keep up the delusions of righteousness senaturd. They amuse me.

Also, if you had read AR4 you would realize its a bit more far reaching than you pretend it is:

Them Rules wrote:
Self-explanatory. There is no good reason why someone who thinks the board is a terrible place should stay and post about how much he hates it. If you think it's that bad, just leave instead of whining about it. That also goes for whining about "prevailing attitudes", "board culture", etc. If you think the majority of us are wrong about some topical issue, make some good arguments to show why we're wrong. Don't just whine that few of us agree with you.



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"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 04:13pm
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Formless wrote:
Actually, I'm telling you to get out of the VS debate (which is generally confined to the sci-fi forum, so its basically the same thing), but keep up the delusions of righteousness senaturd. They amuse me.

Also, if you had read AR4 you would realize its a bit more far reaching than you pretend it is:

Them Rules wrote:
Self-explanatory. There is no good reason why someone who thinks the board is a terrible place should stay and post about how much he hates it. If you think it's that bad, just leave instead of whining about it. That also goes for whining about "prevailing attitudes", "board culture", etc. If you think the majority of us are wrong about some topical issue, make some good arguments to show why we're wrong. Don't just whine that few of us agree with you.

Is that the best you can do? Yell "AR4, bitch!" the second someone does not play by the exact same handbook you do? Who the fuck are you to tell him how that rule is applied?

Especially when the very rule you quoted actually hangs a noose around your neck, tightens it and then kicks the chair right out from under you. Connor has made arguments for why and how sources should be considered and applied and all he has gotten in response so far is whining. Not one single post addressing that point has been made.

Here's a (more or less) friendly bit of advice, Formless: Let Norade dig his own grave and fashion his own noose. He is very good at that. I suggest you take care of your own arguments and see if your ass is covered, because right now with your frivolous invocation of the rules you've stepped out of the jeep and started kicking the lions, as it were.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 04:20pm
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Fair enough, Edi. I didn't exactly jump in here to defend Norade so much as to point out Connor's stupidities, but I can understand that in context I am perhaps reaching somewhat in invoking the rules. My apologies.



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"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 05:24pm
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I responded to Connor's PM, and I figured I should post here as well. I got heated and that doesn't tend to lead to great debate for anybody, I agree with Connor logically on the issue of allowing too much passion into debates, it's not always going to work in practice though. That said DXIII, would you care to make a new thread for the discussion of Legacy? I'll even dig up the video if you find it to be a huge bother.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-28 08:38pm
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Batman wrote:
But that would require him to show she was actually wrong. Blithely disregarding it and hoping nobody notices (not that I see why he'd think that would fly here, mind you) is so much easier..

Following the discussion on that thread pretty much does that so why do it again, although it is interesting to see that you and others think he was right but not surprising considering where we are.

I note a distinct refusal to actually show that. If Serafina was wrong then showing that she was shouldn't be all that hard.
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As for the newbies not being allowed to rehash arguments that have been dead for over a decade, why should we?.

The point is why shouldn't you allow newbies to enjoy themselves?

No it's not, the point is why should Mike do so in the first place.(kindly note that I'm in no position whatsoever to allow anybody to do anything on this forum, because I'm just another poster). This is his private property and you're not entitled to anything when it comes down to it. Furthermore, this is something that has been done to death before numerous times. The game isn't just over, it's heading for the territory were paleontologists might become interested.
Us Newbies can enjoy ourselves any way we want, I just fail to see why Mike is required to allow us to do so here (a lot of which is still going on, I might add). This forum is private property.
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And yes, I'm including myself in this because let's face it, Trek vs Wars was dead before this forum was created. There's nothing in the Board Rules that says we're guaranteed the right to rehash topics that were solved for keeps 10 years ago (leave alone on this forum).

I have seen some of the so called solutions and you may wanna check your dictionary.

Whatever for? So far you haven't provided anything in the way of evidence for your point.



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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-29 02:36am
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Batman wrote:
I note a distinct refusal to actually show that. If Serafina was wrong then showing that she was shouldn't be all that hard.


It is quite easy really as the depth they were drilling to was mentioned and shown during the episode so claiming other wise is denying direct canon material visual and dialog.


What he (i read some of the argument on the other site as well) seems to have done is nitpick a few details regarding the temperature and pressure in order to try and deny those facts.


Quote:
No it's not, the point is why should Mike do so in the first place.(kindly note that I'm in no position whatsoever to allow anybody to do anything on this forum, because I'm just another poster). This is his private property and you're not entitled to anything when it comes down to it. Furthermore, this is something that has been done to death before numerous times. The game isn't just over, it's heading for the territory were paleontologists might become interested.
Us Newbies can enjoy ourselves any way we want, I just fail to see why Mike is required to allow us to do so here (a lot of which is still going on, I might add). This forum is private property.


I do not know if mike does so or not personally i was referring to assholes who charge in with insults and one liners and ruin the fun of others.


Quote:
Whatever for? So far you haven't provided anything in the way of evidence for your point.


The evidence has been provided literaly hundreds of times over the years pal do not kid yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-29 03:51am
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Have fun with that ban Helmet. You don't get to say that kind of thing about Serafina here.

Lord Helmet wrote:
It is quite easy really as the depth they were drilling to was mentioned and shown during the episode so claiming other wise is denying direct canon material visual and dialog.


What he (i read some of the argument on the other site as well) seems to have done is nitpick a few details regarding the temperature and pressure in order to try and deny those facts.


So providing evidence that it couldn't have been that deep is no trumped by evidence?


Quote:
I do not know if mike does so or not personally i was referring to assholes who charge in with insults and one liners and ruin the fun of others.


Yet assholes like you come in and take shots at the transgendered and think that's just fine even though it's against board rules.


Quote:
The evidence has been provided literaly hundreds of times over the years pal do not kid yourself.


So you can't provide any evidence and the best arguments you have revolve around dialogue and not actually disputes against the facts.



School requires more work than I remember it taking...

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-29 07:52am
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Wait, wait, wait... what the fuck? :wtf:
Lord Helmet wrote:
The evidence has been provided literaly hundreds of times over the years pal do not kid yourself.

This from the same dipshit who was complaining that n00bs should be allowed to rehash arguments that have already been done to death?
Because... [no reason given]

If you don't want to debate topics that have been done before, why are you whining and insisting it should be your right to do so?



"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

"Don't go there girl! Talk to the VTOL cause the glass canopy ain't listening!" - Shroomy

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-29 10:03am
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Norade wrote:
Have fun with that ban Helmet. You don't get to say that kind of thing about Serafina here.


I said nothing about him i said something about his claim.


Quote:
So providing evidence that it couldn't have been that deep is no trumped by evidence?


Chen canon material clearly saying it was that deep trumps a nipick on details that could have easily been solved by forcefields and cooling systems.

Do you know the method Trek uses to deal with heat ect on its ships?.

Quote:
Yet assholes like you come in and take shots at the transgendered and think that's just fine even though it's against board rules.


I have no interest or opinion on transgenders one way or another until the science can answer the question better.


Quote:
So you can't provide any evidence and the best arguments you have revolve around dialogue and not actually disputes against the facts.


I have no interest in discussing this with a retard who thinks he can dismiss canon facts by nitpicking details, they were at that depth as it was clearly mentioned and shown as such we must accept that they used some of their tech to solve the issues in question.

Really dude i have seen some fucking awesome apologist bullshit and absurd justifications made up for those absurd ICS stats over the years in a attempt to reconcile them with G canon, T canon and almost all of C canon as well while at the same time the same assholes do the reverse for Trek examples :D.

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-29 10:20am
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Darth Tedious wrote:
Wait, wait, wait... what the fuck? :wtf:
Lord Helmet wrote:
The evidence has been provided literaly hundreds of times over the years pal do not kid yourself.

This from the same dipshit who was complaining that n00bs should be allowed to rehash arguments that have already been done to death?
Because... [no reason given]


Actually because they may do this kind of thing for fun rather than it be connected in a rather sad and pathetic way to their self esteem like most on here.

Quote:
If you don't want to debate topics that have been done before, why are you whining and insisting it should be your right to do so?


So you totally missed the part about not wanting to get into it with some clown who is just copy pasting from old arguments i mean its not like it was the defining point that i was trying to make...oh wait yes it was :roll: .

Here is a example i just read about on the shielding pages:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ield1.html

The "Relics" calcs are way out, firstly the E-D was at 150,000km from the star with its shields down for a considerable amount of time (scenes cut back and forth from Geordie and Scotty on the other ship), secondly they only raised them because they were flying into a eruption from the stars surface and the shields were only powered by emergency or auxiliary power due to the damage sustained by the tractor beam.

There are several other details the page ignores but i have not finished reading them all yet however from "Relics" what we can say is that the E-D can sit 150,000km from a sun of that particular type with its shields down for a considerable amount of time and nobody was even slightly concerned about it until the star started erupting and even then with shields at 23% they could last increasing eruptions for 3 hours.

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-29 10:28am
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Lord Helmet wrote:
The "Relics" calcs are way out, firstly the E-D was at 150,000km from the star... *snip*

The page you're disputing wrote:
In "Relics", the Enterprise-D was pulled into a close orbit (150,000km) around a star enclosed in a Dyson sphere.
First line Mr. Wong wrote on the issue.

Did you hope nobody would look at that, or do you have trouble reading?



"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

"Don't go there girl! Talk to the VTOL cause the glass canopy ain't listening!" - Shroomy

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 Post subject: Re: Why do people assume that the Empire has better tech? PostPosted: 2011-06-29 10:48am
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Joined: 2011-04-21 07:44am
Posts: 57
Darth Tedious wrote:
Lord Helmet wrote:
The "Relics" calcs are way out, firstly the E-D was at 150,000km from the star... *snip*

The page you're disputing wrote:
In "Relics", the Enterprise-D was pulled into a close orbit (150,000km) around a star enclosed in a Dyson sphere.
First line Mr. Wong wrote on the issue.

Did you hope nobody would look at that, or do you have trouble reading?


Actually i was foolish enough to think they would continue reading past the first 15 or so word introduction and see that he claims (or at least his calcs do) that the shields were up (they were not as they were raised later) that they did not get hit by the eruption (when the fact that they were flying into one is the reason they later raised them).

So yea grats on the snipping out of all of the relevant stuff dipshit and illustrating my main point perfectly. :lol:

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