Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

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Picard wrote:
I don't know if anyone else caught this, but doesn't this show a failure in warp navigation? When cruising along at multiples of C, isn't being able to detect planets, moons, large rocks, etc., before you hit them a good thing. Yet Data seems to be saying here that the contact was so big and so massive... that sensors couldn't read it at all
Maybe they dropped out of warp doe to inability to maintain warp speed, or maybe due to some automated security system. We don't know. But we do know that Defiant can enter warp inside solar system, right into star, and exit warp less than half of star's diameter.
Okay, it was a fairly important ploy device in TOS that you needed some distance from a gravity well before warp was even possible, though they then began promptly contradicting the recommended distances in TNG. Some of the earliest ST novelisations I remember reading stated that going to warp too close to a star risked sending it nova! Can't remember the book's title, but the TOS story when they first attempted Transwarp stated that they blew up at least one star by doing exactly this.

Nonetheless, running into a gravity well deep enough that it forces you to drop out of warp can't be good for your engines. This is something that nav sensors really should be looking out for, even if you don't have to worry about flying through a star or bouncing off a super-nova. Flying in a straight line until some natural obstacle collapses your warp field and dumps you into realspace has to be the clumsiest means of exploration I've ever heard of.
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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

Post by Picard »

True.
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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

Post by Picard »

Althought they did perfect warp drive by middle/late DS9.
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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

Post by Batman »

Um-I'm reasonably certain they routinely Warped out of orbit during TOS. They apparently Warped out of Earth's atmosphere in TVH. They definitely Warped out of orbit in TUC (much as all of us wish that most of that movie never happened). About the only instance of anybody considering going to Warp insystem dangerous that I can remember is Kirk in TMP, and that was with untested new Warp engines.
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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

Post by SeaTrooper »

Picard wrote:Althought they did perfect warp drive by middle/late DS9.
Yes, my impression was that as warp mechanics improved, the displacement from gravity wells could be reduced. This would explain some of the incidents seen in TNG, and even more that kept popping up in VOY. It could even be argued that the whole warp too close to a star and send it nova-problem had been completely solved as a result of many incremental improvements to warp engines over time. Of course, this could also be explained by later writers not even knowing this was possible. :roll:

Whoops, sorry there Batman, didn't see your post in time. And, yes, you are correct that they warped out of the atmosphere in TVH. Can't explain that one without throwing rocks at the writers...
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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

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Batman wrote:Um-I'm reasonably certain they routinely Warped out of orbit during TOS. They apparently Warped out of Earth's atmosphere in TVH. They definitely Warped out of orbit in TUC (much as all of us wish that most of that movie never happened). About the only instance of anybody considering going to Warp insystem dangerous that I can remember is Kirk in TMP, and that was with untested new Warp engines.
Bugger. Maybe I'm relying too much on novels I haven't re-read for ages, rather than staying with the TV series as I should.
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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

Post by Batman »

Err-make that TFF, not TUC, I love TUC. I still think they routinely did in TOS and TFF and TVH stand.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Gahhh!!! Frustration with debating with some Trekkies

Post by SeaTrooper »

Batman wrote:Err-make that TFF, not TUC, I love TUC. I still think they routinely did in TOS and TFF and TVH stand.
Rodge, copy all. Consider me on fire and spinning into the deck. I really need to dig my old TOS tapes (VHS, no less) out and watch them again.

Regards TUC, though, did Chuck ever do a review on it? Just finished the 4-parter on STFC, and lol'd myself silly on his take of Insurrection.
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