What If? BATMAN!

[Demiurgas]

Batman gave me an idea in the NuBorg thread.

What if the "real" Batman was a Federation citizen, and he had 3 years to prepare the Federation against the Galactic Empire? Would the Federation stand a chance?

[Serafina]

Has he ever demonstrated that he can
-enhance existing technology by orders of magnitudes
-can learn all about technology which is centuries ahead of his own?
If that is not the case, he can't do enough. Even if it is, the Federation still has limited industrial capacity and will be unable to build enough ships to make a real difference.

[Demiurgas]

I assume that Batman can if he has all of the backing of the entire Federation behind him. He managed to fight super villains for decades with an impressive corporation backing him up. Now imagine him in a post-scarcity world. . .

[Captain Seafort]

I assume that Batman can if he has all of the backing of the entire Federation behind him. He managed to fight super villains for decades with an impressive corporation backing him up. Now imagine him in a post-scarcity world. . .

Standing up to a bunch of crooks is somewhat different to taking on the modern US military with a single Roman legion, which is the difference you're talking about.

[Serafina]

I assume that Batman can if he has all of the backing of the entire Federation behind him. He managed to fight super villains for decades with an impressive corporation backing him up. Now imagine him in a post-scarcity world. . .

Trek is not post-scarcity. You most likely have no clue what post-scarcity actually is.

Sure, they have replicators. But those replicators can only fabricate simple items - they can't fabricate ribosomes (we can do that today in a lab, it's just basic organic chemistry), rare types of rainwater (it can't contain very rare elements, else it would be toxic), gel packs, organs and much, much more. And they still need raw materials - they just make the assembly easier.
And they still need maintenance and power as well. And the Federation is still running mining operations and assembles starships in spacedocks instead of replicating them.

An actual, total post-scarcity world is only possible if you have a source of infinite energy that can also create infinite mass - a gross violation of thermodynamics. If you want to see a post-scarcity world for the scale of citizens, read the Culture novels by Ian Banks. But even they still need raw materials on a large scale, they can't conjure matter out of thin air.

Put simply, there are still a lot of things that are scare in Star Trek, even for a common citizen. They are NOT post scarcity.

[lord Martiya]

If anyone can do that, it's the Batman. Problem is, even him has limits, and fighting the Empire with Federation technology could be well beyond such limits. I mean, Batman can defeat Superman, but he'll need his Kryptonite ring, and even that could be not enough if Superman decides to kill him and just run through him at high speed (Superman will have a radiation poisoning after that, but Bats still gets disintegrated).
So, Batman CAN defeat the Empire, provided that he can find and exploit a weak point in the Empire technology and the Star Destroyers won't disintegrate him faster than he can use his tricks.

[Demiurgas]

Has he ever demonstrated that he can
-enhance existing technology by orders of magnitudes
-can learn all about technology which is centuries ahead of his own?
If that is not the case, he can't do enough. Even if it is, the Federation still has limited industrial capacity and will be unable to build enough ships to make a real difference.

Hmm I think Batman has worked with DC alien tech before, but I could be wrong.

Standing up to a bunch of crooks is somewhat different to taking on the modern US military with a single Roman legion, which is the difference you're talking about.

Well in that case, If I"m right then Batman's only failing would be that the Roman Legion couldn't adapt to the technology he would be introducing.

@Serafina,
Don't insult my intelligence. I conceed then, Star Trek is not post-scarcity. It's only post-scarcity when it comes to food, shelter, and clothing.

Besides, I didn't say "Total post-scarcity". I was just trying to say that he had extremely good economics backing him up.

[Stark]

Dude if Batman can magically produce thousands of years of technological development, why is DC Earth not at an Imperial level of technology?

[Demiurgas]

Good question Stark. It is, however, DC Comics. There's alot of things in it that doesn't make sense. LIke everything. It's a Comic Book setting.

[Stark]

Or you're just full of shit. Batman's a detective, not a one-man technological merry-go-round.

[Demiurgas]

The way you asked the question, I had to respond that way.
Reed Richards is definitely a scientist on par with the Celestials. Why isn't Marvel Earth at the level of the Celestials?

[Captain Seafort]

Well in that case, If I"m right then Batman's only failing would be that the Roman Legion couldn't adapt to the technology he would be introducing.

What technology? The original statement was "if the "real" Batman was a Federation citizen". He is therefore limited to Federation technology. This is like dumping Batman, sans technology, in the city of Rome around the 3rd or 4th century BC and giving him three years to turn it into a force capable of defeating the modern US military. It's not going to happen.

[Demiurgas]

Maybe you're right. However didn't he create what was basically 21st century technology in the 70's?

[Captain Seafort]

However didn't he create what was basically 21st century technology in the 70's?

Even granting this, so what? The US military from the 70s would at least be capable of giving the modern US military a fight (albeit about as much of one as the Iraqis did seven years ago). The Roman Army would be annihilated in about five seconds flat.

[Stark]

Maybe you're right. However didn't he create what was basically 21st century technology in the 70's?

If he created 21st century technology in the stone age, he might have a chance. Too bad one guy can't do that, no matter how smart he is, which you appear to slowly be learning.

[Demiurgas]

My point is, Batman from that time period only had millions-to billions of dollars. Now he has something many orders of magnitude beyond that and an entire industrial base to support him.

[Stofsk]

It's Batman, Stark. With prep time, he can accomplish anything.

[Captain Seafort]

My point is, Batman from that time period only had millions-to billions of dollars. Now he has something many orders of magnitude beyond that and an entire industrial base to support him.

An industrial base that is as backward and tiny compared to the Empire as the Roman industrial base was compared to the modern US, if not more so.

[Stark]

My point is, Batman from that time period only had millions-to billions of dollars. Now he has something many orders of magnitude beyond that and an entire industrial base to support him.

And this helps him how?

Are you one of those people who thinks scientist + money = technology?

[Demiurgas]

And this helps him how?

Are you one of those people who thinks scientist + money = technology?

When it comes to Batman, yes. Not when it comes to real life though. Anyway, I see you're point . . but what if Batman had somehow spent time in the Galactic Empire's territory, and learning about them, etcetera, before he came to the Federation. Would things be more realistic for this?

[Stark]

If I spent time in the Empire, learning about them, would I be able to replicate their technology?

Is this a serious question?

[Stofsk]

What is your actual argument? Can Batman solve crimes on Coruscant? Sure, I guess. Is Batman going to single-handedly save the Federation from being curbstomped by the Imperial military? Um, no.

[Stark]

Batman solving crimes on Coruscant would be pretty cool. Batman somehow being able to assimilate technology better than the Borg just by looking at it... not so much.

[Captain Seafort]

what if Batman had somehow spent time in the Galactic Empire's territory, and learning about them, etcetera, before he came to the Federation. Would things be more realistic for this?

No. Even if you gave the Romans a working model of an F-22, along with detailed schematics of it and all the tools required to make it, they still wouldn't be able to produce their own.

[Demiurgas]

If I spent time in the Empire, learning about them, would I be able to replicate their technology?

Is this a serious question?

Yes. .. what's your point?