Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

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General Mung Beans
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Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by General Mung Beans »

To make this somewhat fair the Yuuzhun Vong fleet is extremely tiny and Yuuzhun Vong efforts are mainly concentrated in subverting and sabotaging the internal governments.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by The Romulan Republic »

How tiny a fleet are we talking about?
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by General Mung Beans »

The Romulan Republic wrote:How tiny a fleet are we talking about?
Say two or three "clusters" of ships (roughly 170 ships per cluster).
El Moose Monstero: That would be the winning song at Eurovision. I still say the Moldovans were more fun. And that one about the Apricot Tree.
That said...it is growing on me.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Then presumably they can crush any single typical Trek power with ease, unless maybe if those ships are all fighters or unarmed craft of some sort (I don't know much about Yuzzhan Vong ships).
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Imperial528 »

If any one of those is a worldship (which is likely they'd have at least one, since, you know, they live on them). Trek is screwed. I'd like to see the chief engineer of any Fed vessel be baffled when a dovin basal swallows up phasers and photon torpedoes with gravity wells.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Thanas »

We have previously established that a single corvette can destroy the Federation. Now you want over a hundred of comparable vessels dumped there.


Yeah....you didn't read up or think this through, did you?
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Of course, just to be fair, a single corvette is pretty limited in what it can do. It could not hold any significant amount of troops. It therefore could not conduct counter-insurgency operations or hold territory. It would eventually run out of supplies.

One corvette can engage in WMD terrorism until its supplies run out. That's about it. Which is not to say that a hundred Yuzzhan Vong ships isn't overkill.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Imperial528 »

What about two corvettes? One can be the warship and be modified to use the weapons of the other corvette at the expense of cargo space, while the second one which won't be left with much ability to fight but a lot of extra cargo room, can act as a re-supply craft and troop transport?
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Still won't be able to carry more than a few hundred troops.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Ghost Rider »

Corvettes won't conquer, but they can inflict damage that would make the Borg race blush.

As for the topic, I think white_rabbit's signature is appropriate to these topics as well. They are just retreads of "Look at the rape, guys!" :roll:
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Imperial528 »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Still won't be able to carry more than a few hundred troops.
So long as we don't tick off all non-feds, that shouldn't be much of a problem, lol. (Pajamas V. blasters...)

On that thought, what about a corvette piloted by Gungans? That'd be interesting.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Imperial528 wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Still won't be able to carry more than a few hundred troops.
So long as we don't tick off all non-feds, that shouldn't be much of a problem, lol. (Pajamas V. blasters...)

On that thought, what about a corvette piloted by Gungans? That'd be interesting.
Please. You can't garrison worlds effectively with a few hundred troops no matter how incompetent your enemies are.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Thanas »

A corvette can destroy the Federation simply by being able to raid the worlds and destroy the cities and ships at its leisure. Power should not be a problem, the real problem is finding something to eat for the crew.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Batman »

Please. You can't garrison worlds effectively with a few hundred troops no matter how incompetent your enemies are.
Screw garrison, how do you CONQUER them in the first place? The corvette can pretty much blow everything the AQ can throw at it out of space in passing and ground defenses aren't going to bother it much either, but actually taking a planet? Not if it's left in any state that makes it actually WORTH conquering. Blow it to hell, yes. Take it, no.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Imperial528 »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Imperial528 wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Still won't be able to carry more than a few hundred troops.
So long as we don't tick off all non-feds, that shouldn't be much of a problem, lol. (Pajamas V. blasters...)

On that thought, what about a corvette piloted by Gungans? That'd be interesting.
Please. You can't garrison worlds effectively with a few hundred troops no matter how incompetent your enemies are.
Ah, but you can hold them down until you get the hundreds thousands you need. In which case, we need a lot more corvettes.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Thanas »

Imperial528, please think before you post.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Imperial528 »

Sorry, I get carried away from time to time.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Darth Yan »

You aren't serious are you? The vong would crush the feds so quickly it's not funny; it would be like pitting a care bear against shao khan from mortal kombat.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Korgeta »

The federation may catch out the sabotage plans of the vong, they did have to deal with several conspiracies and attempts to undermine the federation (from the dominion, romulans to the parasites who were taking over high ranking starfleet officers from TNG.) As for combat, I don't think it'll go well for the federation. Not unless voyager turns up and create some 'kill all' weapon like they did with species 8472 and reduce the vong from a ruthless genocidal terror to diminishing cameo apperances where they proclaim that they were simply misunderstood and just want to be loved. aww.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Eipok_Kruden »

A task force consisting of three Acclamator-class Transports plus their full troop and supply complements could conquer the ENTIRE Star Trek galaxy. All four quadrants. Every single race, except for the ones with superpowers. So, I guess I'd liken the Yuuzhun Vong invading to the Reapers wiping out the Pre-Prothean civilizations in the Mass Effect universe. An unstoppable swarm, blacking out the skies of a thousand worlds. So, in other words, it'd be a massacre. Overkill. Total, complete, overkill.

I'd be more interested in seeing a small imperial task force stranded on the outskirts of Federation space. Which, actually, has been done. But I lost track of the story, having read it many years ago on a site that I can no longer find. If anyone has any new stories in the same vein, please post them.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Picard »

United Federation of Planets, Romulan Empire, Klingon Empire are Alpha/Beta Quadrant superpowers
Dominion is only known Gamma Quadrant superpower
Borg, Kazon are Delta Quadrant superpowers

Cardassian Union, Ferengi Alliance, Breen Confederacy, First Federation and Gorn Hegemony are Alpha Quadrant 'ordinary' powers - I'm not sure about last two, thought

About ground combat, I don't think Yuuzhan'Vong armor would work against Federation hand phasers.
About starship combat, it is only matter of question if Federation finds a way to penetrate Yuuzhan'Vong ship defences - I think that large photon-quantum torpedo salvo might work, perhaps starting by firing low-yield photon torpedoes succeded by high-yield photon and quantum torpedoes; Rogue Squadron trick, nothing too complicated Federation would not be able to devise
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Picard »

Ground combat: Yuuzhan'Vong armor won't work against phasers

Starship combat: Simple mix of low and high yield photon torpedoes would work

Fedration Starfleet numbers at least 8000 capital ships; given slow speed of warp drive and size of Federation, figure of 70 000 is much more reasonable.

About Acclamators, I doubt three Acclamators could conquer Federation - they would not stand chance against single Nebula or Galaxy class starship (weapons range 300 000 kilometers; single photon torpedo 507 megatons maximum, Galaxy class capable of firing 5 torpedoes per launcher in burst or 10 per launcher in rapid succession (2 or 3 per second); Galaxy class can run circles around Star Wars ships at 1/4 c and Constitution class - yes, one of old retired 23rd century starship freaks - and class that defined word "starship" - could reach 90% c - that is later lowered bacouse of 'relativity' issue). That would mean that single Galaxy class starship could rain down gigatons of firepower on Vong ships from distance they could not even retalliate. Several dozens of such ships and *boom* - Vong would pack from galaxy crying for their mammas (or at least those Vong that would be far enough to actually survive battle). Quantum torpedo is even bigger guy - shorter range but twice explosive power of photon torpedo.
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Picard »

Eipok_Kruden wrote:A task force consisting of three Acclamator-class Transports plus their full troop and supply complements could conquer the ENTIRE Star Trek galaxy. All four quadrants. Every single race, except for the ones with superpowers. So, I guess I'd liken the Yuuzhun Vong invading to the Reapers wiping out the Pre-Prothean civilizations in the Mass Effect universe. An unstoppable swarm, blacking out the skies of a thousand worlds. So, in other words, it'd be a massacre. Overkill. Total, complete, overkill.

I'd be more interested in seeing a small imperial task force stranded on the outskirts of Federation space. Which, actually, has been done. But I lost track of the story, having read it many years ago on a site that I can no longer find. If anyone has any new stories in the same vein, please post them.
I think Federation could use SW tactics - splinter shots with phasers, and then kick Vong ship with photon torpedoes.
Hand phasers would have no trouble penetrating Yuuzhan'Vong warrior's armor.

Imperial force would be doomed - range disadvantage (few hundred vs 300 000 kilometers) and power disadvantage (250 megaton photon torpedoes, 4.770 x 106 TeraWatts power production of Galaxy class warp core etc. vs few kiloton turbolaser shots at most).
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Ghost Rider »

Picard wrote:
Eipok_Kruden wrote:A task force consisting of three Acclamator-class Transports plus their full troop and supply complements could conquer the ENTIRE Star Trek galaxy. All four quadrants. Every single race, except for the ones with superpowers. So, I guess I'd liken the Yuuzhun Vong invading to the Reapers wiping out the Pre-Prothean civilizations in the Mass Effect universe. An unstoppable swarm, blacking out the skies of a thousand worlds. So, in other words, it'd be a massacre. Overkill. Total, complete, overkill.

I'd be more interested in seeing a small imperial task force stranded on the outskirts of Federation space. Which, actually, has been done. But I lost track of the story, having read it many years ago on a site that I can no longer find. If anyone has any new stories in the same vein, please post them.
I think Federation could use SW tactics - splinter shots with phasers, and then kick Vong ship with photon torpedoes.
Hand phasers would have no trouble penetrating Yuuzhan'Vong warrior's armor.

Imperial force would be doomed - range disadvantage (few hundred vs 300 000 kilometers) and power disadvantage (250 megaton photon torpedoes, 4.770 x 106 TeraWatts power production of Galaxy class warp core etc. vs few kiloton turbolaser shots at most).
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Re: Yuuzhun Vong vs. Star Trek

Post by Picard »

No, I saw enough to understand that you do not understand basics. And about photon torpedoes, these are not 250 megatons - but rather several gigatons.

In 'A Taste of Armageddon', for example, Kirk is captured whilst on the surface of the planet Eminiar VII. Eminiar is fighting a computer-simulated war with its neighbouring planet, Vendikar. When the computers register a person as a casualty they are expected to report to one of numerous disintegration chambers and immolate themselves. Determined to stop the war, Kirk manages to get a message to Scotty in which he orders him to implement General Order 24. Scotty issues the following ultimatum to the Eminian civilisation :
Scotty : 'All cities and installations on Eminiar VII have been located, identified and fed into our fire control system. In one hour forty five minutes the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed.'
This is not the only time the Enterprise is claimed to be capable of this level of devastation. In 'Bread and Circuses', Kirk talks to the leader of a world whose civilisation has paralleled that of Earth, but with one important difference : on this world, the Roman Empire never fell. The leader, Marcus, captured a Federation ship's crew some six years earlier and convinced its commanding officer, Captain R.M. Merrick, to work with him. In a conversation with Kirk, Marcus says :
Marcus : 'From what I understand, your vessel could lay waste to the entire surface of the world.'
Marcus is not himself an expert in Starship capabilities of course, but he has had a ship's captain as his advisor for some six years and so is certain to have a good general idea of the capabilities of the ship.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the height of the cold war the nuclear powers of the Earth held arsenals with a total yield well into the thousands of megatons. If the Enterprise at least matches this total with only two hundred or so warheads, then each weapon would have a yield well in excess of ten megatons. Weapons with this kind of yield are well within the capabilities of present day science - indeed, bombs with yields of some 50 megatons were successfully tested several decades ago. Producing such energy with a matter/antimatter charge should be relatively straightforward for 23rd century technology. With the recent advent of photons in the tens of megatons range on Enterprise, set a century before Kirk's time, it seems certain that the weapons in use during the original series were at least this powerful. See later on for more details of the Enterprise weapons.
It's worth repeating that this represents virtually the minimum yield that photon torpedoes could have and still fit in with the above episode statements. Higher yields are perfectly possible and indeed quite likely if we are to take phrases such as 'lay waste to the surface of the world' at face value. At least one original series episode points to an even greater level of destruction than this; in 'Whom Gods Destroy', Captain Kirk is trapped in a Federation lunatic asylum which has been taken over by one of its inmates, Garth. The whole planet is covered by a planetary shield, and in the following dialogue the crew consider trying to blast through it :
Scotty : 'Mister Sulu. What do your sensors show?'
Sulu : 'We can't beam anybody down sir. The forcefield on the planet is in full operation and all forms of transport into the asylum dome are blocked off. '
Scotty : 'Aye... we could blast our way through the field but only at the risk of destroying the Captain, Mister Spock and any other living thing on Elba II.'
McCoy : 'How can we be powerful enough to wipe out a planet and still be so helpless!'
Somewhat remarkably, this indicates that the surface of the planet would be totally devastated even by the collateral damage of blasting through the planetary shields! This would would presumably be only a small portion of the total attack, indicating a total firepower much greater than a mere few thousand megatons - perhaps even several orders of magnitude greater.
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