One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

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One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by SapphireFox »

Now we all can agree that Star Wars would curbstomp Trek badly. So I propose this challenge. You, yes you are deposited in the Star Wars galaxy where you discover a deactivated droid army from the clone wars after which you activate it and steal a Victory-class Star Destroyer about to be decommissioned. After loading your droid army onto the ship and escaping you are pursued by the Imperial Navy into the outer rim. Where you find a collapsing wormhole, seeing no alternative you use the wormhole to escape from the Interdictor and Imperial class Star Destroyers trying to destroy you. You exit the wormhole just as it collapses only to find that you are not in the galaxy you left behind. As you come to this realization a "metron" (use Q, Organion, Celestial, Force ghost, Ascended ancient, or what ever elder race equivalent you feel most comfortable with) appears before you and offers this bargain "Conquer this new galaxy bring it under one rule and I will grant you immortality for you and all those you wish it for." After the "metron" informs you of what galaxy you are in you accept.

Goal= Conquer the Star Trek Galaxy

Initial resources= One Victory I-class star destroyer crewed by droids, Droid army exact numbers and make up are up to the individual but must fit within the ship without hampering efficiency of the ship.(Droid army must contain ONLY standard CIS units and weapons)

Duration= The Conquers lifetime

Any means and knowledge possessed by the conqueror may be used(ie. the Knowledge you possess of star trek and star wars with whatever skills you currently have.). No super-weapons are allowed as the knowledge to construct them are not contained in the ships or droids databanks.

This might be considered a RAR type of thing if I understand the concept properly.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Batman »

Automatic fail. While the Victory can pretty much bitchslap most of everything the Trek galaxy can throw at it it doesn't have the resources for conquest. Even if we assume all the fighting would be done by droids/droid controlled ships they'd have to have the ability to MANUFACTURE
those and a Victory is NOT equipped for that.
The smallest (the ONLY as far as I know) SW vessel that might achieve that is a World Devastator.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by The Romulan Republic »

There's a simple way around that: Use the Victory to build up an initial powerbase, then expand and maintain power using local infrastructure and tech.

As for droids, I'd go with Super Battle Droids as the bulk of my force, backed up by Droidekas. Grevious's guards would make a nice personal security force. None of the basic battle droids, as they are marginally useful pieces of crap.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by 100 Ton »

Quietly secure a replicator from a Star Trek ship. Use this to make repair parts and new droids as needed. Find a way to secure a fuel source... Whatever Victory Class ships burn for fuel.

Pick off a couple of underdeveloped worlds for slave labor... use them to mine ore and process it and build a couple more ships.

Capture a couple more Star Trek ships and study the shield technology. Star Trek ships are famous for using handwavum and technobabble to overcome shear firepower. Understand this, and be prepared for it.

Double and triple check your shields and make them handwavum and technobabble proof as far as you can... and triple secure your computer against logic attacks. All your droids as well. You don't want someone asking your Droid Control System what the last digit of Pi is in the middle of a heated battle. That would be a true EPIC FAIL on your part, right up there with Darth Dumbfuck's attempt to compress a supernova into a small easy to swallow capsule for use as an assassination tool.

Once you have a small fleet together, go after one of the outlying empires. I'd pick the Cardassians. Mop the floor with them, strip their worlds for resources, recycle their ships and go after the Klingons next. Then the Romulans. That will be tricky as they are quite advanced and may have super-weapons like the Narada and Scimitar. No matter, just be careful and take them down if/when they appear.

By this point you should have quite a fleet of ships equipped with Star Wars weapons and legions of Droids at your command. Simply storm the Federation head on all the while watching for sneaky Technobabble and Handwavum attacks against your fleet.


Done right, this would take about a decade. Most of that time would be spent in the initial stages building up your initial core strength.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Serafina »

Batman wrote:Automatic fail. While the Victory can pretty much bitchslap most of everything the Trek galaxy can throw at it it doesn't have the resources for conquest. Even if we assume all the fighting would be done by droids/droid controlled ships they'd have to have the ability to MANUFACTURE
those and a Victory is NOT equipped for that.
The smallest (the ONLY as far as I know) SW vessel that might achieve that is a World Devastator.
They could use their firepower to subdue planets and demant tribute.
Conquest does not necessarily mean "install a dicatorship that controll every detail of your life".

Just fly to a planet, wreck it's defenses and say "we demand these supplies every month/year/whatever, or we will nuke your from orbit".
Given the speed of SW-ships, this is easily manageable for a huge territory.

After that, you can either try to reproduce your own technology, or install bigger local goverments (still subordinate to you) and repeat the above for other areas.

Given the politics involved, there are a lot of possible screwups, but a smart person could pull it off.
It wouldn't be direct controll, but a subordinate feudal system is also good.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Why should you even be so hostile about it? Go to some angry, relatively technologically advanced race that is nonetheless due to politics and territory rather put upon by all its neighbors. Offer them some low end shield, hull or propulsion technology that they can examine and try to retrofit on their own time, as well as your protection from outside incursion, as long as they give you safe harbor in their territory. It doesn't matter if their retrofitting is piss poor, considering the disparity between SW and ST techs, it will still be massively better than anything else in the quadrant has. Suddenly your puppet race can expand outward with its own industry and steamroll through its former superiors with ease. All the while you can keep your ship in reserve as an ace-in-the-hole in case some areas of the war/conquest go south.

With the use of hyperspace, you could theoretically do this with several vastly separated races at once and cover even more ground. Have a few select trusted leaders of each race in the know of what you're doing with the others, so that they can help direct the conquest to avoid going to war with other races similarly allied with you.

This is, of course, if you accept the offer of conquest in the first place, which is a huge if that the OP seems to assume will take place no matter what. I mean, immortality? Not everyone wants that, and the omnipotent force never said anything about punishment for not attempting to take over the galaxy. I'd be content living with the incredible technology aboard the ship and curbstomping anyone that tried to attack me, but otherwise leaving the galaxy to its own affairs.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by JGregory32 »

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Go to some angry, relatively technologically advanced race that is nonetheless due to politics and territory rather put upon by all its neighbors.
Sounds like the Maquis would be perfect for this role, sandwiched between the Federation and the Cardassians their home territory plays merry hell with Trek sensors and they are not in a position to look a gift horse in the mouth.

I would add that you might want to start education programs ASAP. Not the political kind but rather teaching people how to use and build the technology. It's never going to be as good as the tech you currently have but it will help.

One thing the OP doesn't mention is how long does your race live? We can assume your human with a humans life expectancy but SW does have some long lived races and SW medical tech might mean the average human lifespan is much greater than we assume.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Aaron »

So is the person going to be given the knowledge to use the ship and it's technology (and reproduce parts) or are they just dumped in the SW galaxy.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by SapphireFox »

Cpl Kendall wrote:So is the person going to be given the knowledge to use the ship and it's technology (and reproduce parts) or are they just dumped in the SW galaxy.
Basic knowledge to use the technology is either given to you or has been figured out by the time you arrive in the ST galaxy. The droids actually are already programed to be able to run a ship properly. As for the knowledge necessary to reproduce basic SW tech, it is contained within the data banks of the ship and the memory banks of the former CIS engineer and maintenance droids within the droid army.
JGregory32 wrote:One thing the OP doesn't mention is how long does your race live? We can assume your human with a humans life expectancy but SW does have some long lived races and SW medical tech might mean the average human lifespan is much greater than we assume.
When I said you in the OP I meant YOU, the one sitting in the chair reading this post. I deliberately did not say anything about extending your life expectancy (and thus your chance of success) with local or SW medical tech because it IS a legitimate strategy. Remember this is you so all of your knowledge and ideas are applicable. So yes you can extend your expected lifespan "marginally" by using the more advanced medical tech.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by open_sketchbook »

This one is easy. The Federation, to our knowledge, is the power with the most capacity to expand because of how they integrate others into themselves. So show up, cozy up to them by blasting big holes in everything that so much as blinks at them in a hostile manner, and basically become the Federation's ace in the hole. Everyone is going to want to start playing by their rules... and as you can singlehandedly exterminate the Federation, they have to play by your rules.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Teleros »

Hmm, one of the things I keep hearing about in regular SW v ST debates is the issue of mapping out hyperspace routes and such, because having to travel slower around the place will limit how easily you can, for example, just nip over to the Delta Quadrant to bring back some Borg trophies to impress the UFP (or whoever) with*. Or maintain order in a far-flung empire (esp at first).

Secondly, when in the ST timeline does this occur? If just after ST: Nemesis, I can imagine the UFP being both wary of and grateful for a friendly super-ship turning up (if you want to go with o_s' idea), given what Shinzon did, both to the Romular Star Empire and to the UFP.

* Anyone for capturing a Borg Cube with SBDs :) ?
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by SapphireFox »

Teleros wrote:Secondly, when in the ST timeline does this occur? If just after ST: Nemesis, I can imagine the UFP being both wary of and grateful for a friendly super-ship turning up (if you want to go with o_s' idea), given what Shinzon did, both to the Romular Star Empire and to the UFP.
Sorry, where in the timeline is something I should have thought about in the first post. Since after Nemesis is still post dominion war like I intended and is the most recent part of the timeline the entry into the ST galaxy shall be about 6 months after Nemesis. That is enough time for the events of Nemesis to become less important and immediate to the federation at large.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Teleros »

Well... first off, I'm not too sure what the best droids to use for the ship's crew are, but I'd want a competent bunch, not those retarded regular battle droids. The droid army should I think consist of a handful of Grievous' droid guards for personal protection, but in bulk be made up of SBDs, with some (although not much - this is the ST-verse we're going to conquer) armour, fighter craft, transports and such.

First order of business once in the ST galaxy is to get some proper mapping done for rapid hyperspace travel. Safe & quick routes to the major Alpha Quadrant powers (once I find them :P ) are a must, as is a route to the Delta Quadrant so I can give the Borg etc a thorough kicking.

Once that's done, I think I'll follow through with my idea above & capture a Borg cube with my army, which shouldn't be too hard, given that blasters > space zombies, and I'll know about blocking transporters etc too. Use whatever data is on board to hunt down and smash the rest of the Borg Collective in fairly short order, then head to the UFP.

When arriving in the Alpha Quadrant, I'll be sure to travel with my newly captured Borg Cube, and proceed slowly into UFP space, being all friendly and nice to the natives. When at Earth, I'll drop off the Cube as a present to the UFP and to show I mean serious business - and at the same time declare myself Emperor or somesuch. Hopefully demonstrations of overwhelming firepower won't be needed too much, because I much prefer the idea of enlightened despotism. "Safe" tech transfers to the locals can follow (eg bacta or superior SW, if Trek-powered, shields & weapons), and in return my subjects can begin gearing up for some hypermatter production, because all this travel won't do my supplies much good. Plus, my new Royal Starfleet will need some real engines in its ships. Simultaneously, battle droid production can begin, because even if they're the rubbish regular models, I'll need something to police my new empire with.

Once rearmed and rebuilt, my dear subjects can start looking to grab lots of real estate, expanding outwards from the original UFP borders. The Klingons & Romulans I'll want conquered ASAP, simply because they're the two biggest powers nearby. The military conquest shouldn't be hard, what with hyperdrive-equipped Starfleet warships with SW weapons & shields (although weaker than my flagship for security reasons); after that droid occupation forces and some orbital support will be put in place to keep them well-behaved. Oh, and UFP-built probe droid spam, because we need faster routes and long-range scouts. Naturally, if we can simply "encourage" people to join my little UFP then even better. WMDs will be used as a weapon of last resort, if at all, because the less bad PR I have to deal with the better. Flitting about BDZ'ing / gassing / [insert terror weapon use here] worlds that rebel is not something I want to have to do very often.

The trouble though is that this will result merely in the military conquest of the galaxy - which whilst it would hopefully satisfy the OP, is not what I'd want to merely finish with. Military occupation of Quo'nos, Romulus & Remus etc is all very well, but like o_s said, I'd then want to see about integrating this galaxy into a single, unified political & cultural entity once I get immortality. Because damnit, if I'm going to spend a few decades building an empire, I'm going to make sure it doesn't fall apart afterwards. Let the rewriting of Klingon history commence!
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by 100 Ton »

As written the Borg can trump anything. Careful assuming that you can conquer them. Eventually, they *will* adapt and YOU will be their bitch.

Other than that, the initial problem will be building an overwhelming force. The Star Trek powers as I said rely on handwavum and technobabble. Be careful relying too much on any one aspect of your plan because the Federation will figure out a way to shut you down.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Aaron »

100 Ton wrote:As written the Borg can trump anything. Careful assuming that you can conquer them. Eventually, they *will* adapt and YOU will be their bitch.

Other than that, the initial problem will be building an overwhelming force. The Star Trek powers as I said rely on handwavum and technobabble. Be careful relying too much on any one aspect of your plan because the Federation will figure out a way to shut you down.
Oh gawd, please don't let this turn into a Borg debate.

Anyways, I find this scenario rather broken. Assuming I have about 60-70 years to accomplish this (I'm in my early 30's), I have to first build some infrastructure to maintain the VSD, not a small task considering SW and ST have totally different technology and then find someone to "uplift" to a level were I can go curb stomping the galaxy.

As it stands I have a bunch of maintenance droids and combat droids, not really all that useful in building a tech base from scratch. Frankly I think the best bet for me is to cruise over to the Federation and sell them the VSD, then retire to STD land Riza.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

100 Ton wrote:As written the Borg can trump anything. Careful assuming that you can conquer them. Eventually, they *will* adapt and YOU will be their bitch.

Other than that, the initial problem will be building an overwhelming force. The Star Trek powers as I said rely on handwavum and technobabble. Be careful relying too much on any one aspect of your plan because the Federation will figure out a way to shut you down.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Batman »

While 100 Ton's Borg wanking is of course garbage, the Space Zombies ARE a valid concern in a Vs for a change. While the original VSD can go through Borg cubes like they aren't there, any power base I manage to establish in the Trek galaxy WILL be largely based on Treknology, which in turn means the Borg remain a credible threat unless I can either massively increase Trek firepower or amp up Trek fleet numbers (and probably will have to do BOTH) to the point where they can can overwhelm the Borg, and I'm not sure that can be done in a single human lifetime, at least not with a VSD's resources.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Teleros »

Which is pretty much why I'd try & use the VSD alone: they have sod all chance against that thing. Keeping it supplied with fuel, tibanna gas etc, is the main concern. Worst case scenario, you have to just hit them very hard, then go elsewhere to refuel & resupply* before returning to them.

* Ie, conquer the UFP or something.

Plus, equipping starship crews with proper weaponry etc will help a lot vs the Borg. Imagine how much more easily the Ent-E in ST:FC could've resisted if it had had SW-style shields (ie, no frequency nonsense) and proper internal security equipped with Storm / Clone Trooper armour & E-11s instead of the pyjamas brigade. Whilst this isn't of course foolproof, it does make it a lot easier to face them. And finally, the longer you wait before engaging them, the longer you'll have to tech up to nearer SW levels before introducing them to turbolasers :) .
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by 100 Ton »

Just saying that the Borg as written would quickly adapt to and overwhelm anything in their path. That's why the writers had to dumb them down quite a bit.

Figure they'll be a threat until say... Voyager gets ahold of them, then they'll be weak and stupid enough to deal with. However you need to keep in mind they control almost a quarter of the galaxy by themselves and it will be a resource intensive operation to corral them.


Another consideration... Star Trek has replicator technology. I've seen mentioned "if I can duplicate my technology." Of course you can. They mentioned large scale industrial replicators on the show several times. Capture a few of those and you will be able to duplicate essential parts and pieces.


My wife also pointed out this interesting tidbit: Time-travel could be used to undo everything you have done. Add that to the technobabble and handwavum watch-list. What the Trek races lack in firepower they make up for in annoying underhanded and deceitful tactics... which is why we have to conquer them and show them who's in charge. :mrgreen:
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Ghost Rider »

Time Travel is a cop out and doesn't affect the timeline you are in. If it did...then First Contact would be over the instant the Borg did it.

Written doesn't make it so, since we do not see Vader making the Death Star look like a water gun.

Replicators have shown immense problems to duplicating objects with the ST universe without a problem let alone a foriegn one. Some examples are body matter and exotic rain water. In fact it's noted that replicators can't quite get food correct.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by 100 Ton »

Ghost Rider wrote:Time Travel is a cop out and doesn't affect the timeline you are in. If it did...then First Contact would be over the instant the Borg did it.
Agreed. While an amusing torment to throw at your RPG players no lasting change can come of it. Just something to be aware of as you go forward. Setbacks can be expensive... and they require you to execute underlings. You know... to serve as a warning to the rest. :twisted:
Replicators have shown immense problems to duplicating objects with the ST universe without a problem let alone a foriegn one. Some examples are body matter and exotic rain water. In fact it's noted that replicators can't quite get food correct.
Yes with biological patterns you will have many problems... The concept that they could duplicate a spinal cord using the replicator was just daft beyond daft and sort of the "end" of believability for me.

I do not foresee any issues replicating straightforward mechanical parts and and electronic/circuit items. If you do have issues, I have a full-service machine-shop at my disposal, and in exchange for a position in your fleet I will build whatever you require. :mrgreen:
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Ghost Rider »

100 Ton wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote: Replicators have shown immense problems to duplicating objects with the ST universe without a problem let alone a foriegn one. Some examples are body matter and exotic rain water. In fact it's noted that replicators can't quite get food correct.
Yes with biological patterns you will have many problems... The concept that they could duplicate a spinal cord using the replicator was just daft beyond daft and sort of the "end" of believability for me.

I do not foresee any issues replicating straightforward mechanical parts and and electronic/circuit items. If you do have issues, I have a full-service machine-shop at my disposal, and in exchange for a position in your fleet I will build whatever you require. :mrgreen:
Actually with replication is harder, is that food and biological that is known is easier to replicate. Far less different chemicals involved and easier to breakdown. Then take a metal cog which has been forged from different elements, placed in different stresses and the material has been changed under far higher temperatures. Going into electrical you are involving even more unusual stresses and problems that no biological item even begins to get into.

And finally add the fact this is a completely alien item that you really have no idea of the stresses or even elements involved.

It falls under the same line that reverse engineering technology is immensely hard. You have too many holes in what is done to reach the product.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by 100 Ton »

I am an engineer.

I do this kind of thing for a living at my day job and in my private workshop.

If you have an object, and you know what it is made out of you can duplicate it. Period the end.

Replication as I understand it from the manuals and from a general misunderstanding of quantum physics... A block of hardened steel or a crystal of some sort would be much easier to compute and manipulate into position than a complex biological pattern. No complex electron shell duplication, chemical motions or anything of that nature. A single-bit error in a crystal manifests as a tiny flaw... in a block of metal it's an intrusion or a bit of contamination. In a biological complex it would result in possibly toxic results or mutation.


...so following a reverse engineering procedure that I use in real life we would take these steps to build a turbolaser using replicators:

First I would dismantle a working unit down to the sub-sub assembly level.

I would digitize everything into CAD files using a CMM-probe machine or in-universe sophisticated scanning devices.

Next I would have my software expert decompile all the software related modules and store the code on my server.

I would then send things like Tibanna-Gas to the labs for study.

Now I would begin inputting the molecular patterns of the outer casing into my industrial replicator. One piece at a time. I would take the pieces and fit them together.

Next I would begin on the more complex internal parts... such as the beam generator, tracking servos, and computer sub-components... one sub assembly at a time... and I would rigorously test each piece.

Gradually the Turbolaser would come together.


Eventually, after five or six prototypes I would have enough confidence in my process that I could begin automating using droids. Eventually, we would reach the point where I could run the process lights out without supervision.

As for exotic Tibanna-Gas.... I prefer to think of that as a trade name or a brand name rather than the chemical name... Given the number of gas giants in the Galaxy I'm quite certain we would be able to locate a source of usable lasing gas....


In the end the result is the same... Those pesky Star Trek people will fall before the might of Darth Frackum and his mighty fleet. *sinister music*
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Ghost Rider
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by Ghost Rider »

But you don't know what it is made of. You can poke and prod the ISD or whatever vessel and doing whatever molecular breakdown will not yield anything except perhaps the disparate elements. You do not know how or what they did to achieve that state of the final product. If you cannot even breakdown a biological formula or worse yet...rain water, how does one even presume to break down alien metal?

This doesn't even begin to hit the technological leaps needed to achieve the power generation of the end product or the lines to start said product.
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Re: One person, One ship, One galaxy. Challenge

Post by 100 Ton »

If we're going to go that route then we simply cannot have any meaningful comparison of the universes and the entire discussion is moot.

The entire premise of my argument is based on real world analytical techniques and methods... based on 20th century science. 400 years from now who knows what technology I would have at my disposal.

As for the "rain water" argument, this is why I dislike Star Trek. In order to tell a story they have to cripple themselves in one episode, then the next episode they have the ability to do something... they contradict themselves internally making meaningful analysis of the technology problematic at best.

That's why I default to my understandings of science and engineering and extrapolate forward 400 years.


In the end it comes down to this simple choice: Which universe do you like better? :D In this situation... I am stating that it is possible to use Star Trek technology to duplicate Star Wars technology 1:1 allowing you to conquer the universe.


Now... on the flip side... If I took a Galaxy Class starship into the Star Wars universe problems would arise as soon as the first battle is over: Where do I get more antimatter? Law of diminishing returns tells me that while I can generate some onboard, my generator will fail long before I manufacture enough to make a difference. Star Wars technology could build me a replacement warp core to replace the one I had to eject due to damage... and I could make a new crystal for the core or use a spare... but the problem of how would I acquire it when I have no money or means of exchange?

Ah well. This is a fun debate. Glad I joined. :D
Yes I have three injection molding machines. And two CNC mills. No I won't make things for you. No I am not a jerk. You just simply can't afford my rates.

"Experience Is What You Get When You Didn't Get What You Wanted On The First Attempt"
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