Fleets of borg spheres are constantly sent to the star wars galaxy. Each one goes back in time in years as far back as 3,000,000 BBY if necessary. The goal is the same as the borg's goal in the movie Star Trek First Contact: the assimilation of every species before they are technologically able to defend themselves so there is little to no resistance.



The end result is an entire galaxy of borg!



Before you think to argue for star wars, remember that resistance is futile.

So the borg are running around and having to deal with the Celestials. Cute http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Celestial
How will the borg deal with a people who chuck around stars, planets and even BLACK HOLES!

---

You will see the tears of time.

So you admit that you do not want to argue and that you are just trolling?

Hey, little dipshit, i don't care what you think (if you are indeed capable of such actions) - and you are, in a sick way, funny, so i will take on your arguments anyway.
Aside from (again) failing to adress alternate timelines, the Borg have never demonstrated the ability to go millions of years back. All they have done are a few hundred years.
And a few hundred years will do squat against SW, since their technology is STILL far superior than anything the Borg ever encountered - heck, even during the early days of the Old Republic they would at best be laughing stock.

---

SoS:NBA GALE Force 上智大学に少し奴隷
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

well it says they were around long before the establishment of the Galactic Republic in 19 BBY. Like any species they have to evolve don't they? They would just have to find them when they were at their weak points in their evolution.



I knew you would argue alternate universes and challenge the borg sphere's ability to go back in time According to what we see in star trek first contact, no alternate universe is created when they go back in time. That's a pretty cheap way to get out of this predicament too: hope everything is an alternate universe even though you can't prove it. Let's just say for the sake of argument that the borg are only capable of going back a few hundred years at a time. All they'd have to do is keep going back a few hundred years at a time to get to 200*x number of years ago. If we just slap these 2 arguments down where they stand, do you have anything else?

oh yeah I forgot the paradox argument. If the borg take care of the star wars galaxy then the borg will see no reason to try to send ships back in time to conquer the star wars galaxy when the day comes to send them which results in the borg never sending them to begin with? In star trek first contact, we don't see that. We see earth assimilated and then the enterprise decides to go back in time to stop them. Plus the borg could always send a message to the borg collective and tell them to send their ship in the past to their time to keep everything consistent.

If I may, then I would ask you to provide evidence for the implicit assertion that the Borg are capable of ignoring the principle of Conservation of Mass-Energy, or at least that it does not hold within Star Trek.

yeah, conservation of mass-energy assumes a closed-system. Through time travel, they can add energy and mass to a universe that wasn't there before because it is duplicate matter and energy in the past (i.e. the same matter and energy that makes up the borg and the drones exists in the past). It's not a closed system because there's something adding more to the system: the future version of the system.

In case that doesn't hold, since we see time travel demonstrated countless times on star trek, this principle does not stop them.

Weak points in evolution? What the frak are you talking about?! If you are talking about going back to a point before they were a threat how would they ( In there logic ) justify assimilating them then? Considering we know so little about them how would you know that the would even be vulnerable to this kind of attack.

---

You will see the tears of time.

Seems we're all forgetting that in ST:FC the Borg had to travel to Earth to time travel into its past for whatever reason, rather than just travel back in time in complete safety in the Delta Quadrant and mess up time from there. Assuming that the Borg weren't simply being as retarded as marsh8472, this implies that this is a limitation of their time-travelling technology.

Result: the Borg get curbstomped every time they try to get close enough to an Imperial planet when this happens. Assuming that by some miracle they do go back in time, what's to stop a squadron of TIE Fighters following them through the magic time-travel effect they created and blowing them up once they emerge, like the Ent-E did?

---

Clear ether!

Teleros, of Quintessence

Route North-442.116; Altacar Empire, SDNW 4 Nation; Lensman Tech Analysis

weak enough where they have some technology but not enough to win in a fight but advanced enough where they aren't attacking a single celled organism or non-sentient being and give the borg something worth assimilating.



according to that, they have their limits. They aren't gods like Q and it's been argued that even Q needed to evolve to get to where they are now.

Given that we know little about them, there's also little reason to assume a confrontation with them is inevitable.



The borg first tried to assimilate humanity in the 24th century. When they realized they couldn't do that, then they decided to go back in time and assimilate an earlier version of humanity instead. They could have just as easily sent their ships back in time from the delta quadrant but their goal is to assimilate the most advance races they can assimilate in order to get the most knowledge from them and one step closer to perfection. They'll decide to go back in time long before they reach the star wars galaxy.

Or just as importantly whats stoping something nasty from the past from getting out. Remember the Celestials have demenstrated powers on par with the other uneffected races like th metrons or the organians also around this era and before the force demons were active. I don't even want to know what horrors might pop out of that time portal.

---

You will see the tears of time.

damn double post. anyone know how to fix that

---

You will see the tears of time.

You will have to do better than that to explain away a violation of conservation of energy. Saying that the energy and mass is moved from another universe does not strengthen your case. In fact, it makes it worse because then you violate the conservation laws of two universes instead of just one.

Of course, if we grant your idea that conservation of energy can be abused as easily as this, you have just created a perpetual motion machine of the first order. Yet strangely enough, time travel does not appear to grant the Trek societies that use it access to unlimited energy . . .

---

"But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books."

-George "Evil" Lucas

Why not just send more cubes then? From what I've seen of the Borg, even if they can't match the Federation in terms of sheer numbers (which I'm sure they can), each individual cube is worth a lot of regular Starfleet ships. Half a dozen cubes would have stomped all over Starfleet's forces sent to stop them, so what was the problem?

It also raises the question of why the Borg sphere had time-travel technology in the first place, and why this wasn't attempted again later. We know that the Borg survived the loss of the Queen (ie, the whole of Voyager until, perhaps, Endgame), so it doesn't make sense that they'd just try time travel once and then give up. For example:

1. First attempt to time travel and assimilate fails.
2a. The Borg launch a second attempt from with the Delta Quadrant. Federation doesn't know of this because, well, they're not around to see the attempt, as the Ent-E was.
2b. The Borg just send a few dozen cubes at the Federation and simply overwhelm them. Or hundreds even, if they don't want to just nuke Earth into oblivion and would instead prefer to expand into the Alpha Quadrant from Earth.

---

Clear ether!

Teleros, of Quintessence

Route North-442.116; Altacar Empire, SDNW 4 Nation; Lensman Tech Analysis

And how would they judge where and when to pop out of the portal? not even assimilating a native would tell them anything mmore then what we know now they could and likely would come out at an incorect time and get curbstomped by the natives. Even if they came out at the corect time it is also likely that they would get blasted by their predecessors and contemperaries.

---

You will see the tears of time.

Okay I'll try one more time to explain it. In the most simplistic terms, you're assuming that when a cell phone loses power that it cannot be recharged. But we do recharge cell phones so obviously that's not true. It's because the cell phone is not from a closed system. There's another source that's providing it power outside the cell phone. Similarly the universe is not a closed-system in this case since there's an alternate universe supplying it power and usable energy.

That is not what I was talking about. You are presuming either that the Borg have access to an infinite supply of energy, or else that time travel has no cost in terms of energy, since your idea requires that the Borg have essentially unlimited range in terms of their time travel. This is an unjustified assumption. Try to think a little before opening your lips, please.

It is possible that it was a purpose bulit one off. The temporal feild generators might have been so massive that it is inefficient to send a cube equiped with it, so the sphere with no warp/transwarp engines is shuttled there by a cube.

---

You will see the tears of time.

The borg had assimilated enough humans and starfleet technology where they assessed that it wasn't worth the effort. From their point of view, to be efficient as possible it's better to just go back in time and get rid of them so they will no longer continue to resist.



Trial and error. Each sphere can pick early points in history and the next sphere can go to a different point in history after the previous one and see if they conquered the galaxy yet. If they did not make any progress then they'll go back further in time to the previous one and try to stop the source of the resistance.



They wouldn't need an unlimited supply of energy to go back in time at most a few thousand times. And even if this isn't true some how, again, we see time-travel done all the time on star trek and your objections don't stop this from happening therefore it's not considered a problem in the star trek universe. Heck there's even some cases where they go back in time in the star wars too. It doesn't require much thought to debunk you. Maybe you should take your own adise and think before you talk yourself.

not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm guessing you're trying to say that it was their intention to do the time travel thing all along and they needed the cube to get the sphere there? Okay, lets say they do. Then they just send cubes that transport the time travel spheres to where ever they need to go. If anything, this weakens star wars chances since they will now have to face more resistance by going after a cube instead of a sphere.

Which would in turn imply that the mission was intended to be a time travel one, and also means the Borg have to get close in order to drop off the FTL-incapable sphere, which brings me back to my original objection to this method.


You mean they spontaneously decided there and then (ie at Earth) to do that? Doesn't compare well to their determined efforts to assimilate Species 8472 in spite of the latter's much superior resistance. To me ST:FC looked either like a desperate attempt to salvage victory (ie "cr*p we're doomed, use a sphere & time-travel), or a deliberate plan ("use the cube to distract them, then we'll shoot out when close enough in the sphere and time-travel as planned"). To say it was a spur-of-the-moment decision implies a capability in Borg spheres never seen before or since, and which would undoubtedly have come in useful.

Speaking of which, I wonder why they couldn't time-travel and warn themselves of the danger of opening the portal to fluidic space. Same "not in range" issue, due to bioships blowing up attempted time-travel missions? *Shrug*


For this argument to work you have to show that Borg cubes are a match for regular Star Wars ships. The main site has a wealth of evidence that says otherwise.

---

Clear ether!

Teleros, of Quintessence

Route North-442.116; Altacar Empire, SDNW 4 Nation; Lensman Tech Analysis

Prove it. Let us assume that the most that they can do in any one "hop" is to travel back 200 years. Now, galactic society was well in place by about 25,000 years previously, so let us use that as the target, for the sake of the Borg. This would require 125 "hops". However, you specified about 3,000,000 years previously, which would take 15,000 hops. Now, if the Borg really can time-travel willy-nilly, then why did they not travel further back into Earth's past? Why did they not start their time travel many light-years from Federation territory? Why don't other civilizations regularly use time travel? All the evidence points to the Borg and the majority of starfaring civilizations being unable to use time travel extensively, which suggests that it is highly impractical. After all, it was a desperation tactic in FC, severely stressed the Bird of Prey in STIV, and is a rare event, all concerned. Furthermore, this was not an argument against time travel as a concept. That would be idiotic, since it's a fundamental part of three movies and a number of episodes. Perhaps you should read your opponents' actual posts rather than the ones that exist only in your head.

There is also no reason to presume that this was a deliberate tactic by the Borg, since they waited until the cube was nearly destroyed before launching the sphere, which seems a bit stupid. They could have sent the sphere off before attacking the Federation if that was their initial goal.

I'm sorry but I would tend to think that a 3000m cubic chunk of metal traveling through space to a target MIGHT BE A BIT BLOODY NOTICEABLE. The borg aren't exactly masters of subtlety and travel through enemy space tends to get your ass shot off if you are not careful.

---

You will see the tears of time.

There is of course no proof that a sphere capable of time travel has less capabilities than any other sphere which we know can go faster than light. Plus the enterprise was able to duplicate this technology to get back to the 24th century. You're arguing that the borg aren't capable of making the technology more compact than the enterprise even after acquiring all the knowledge various assimilated humans and thousands of other species.

They could also go back in time to where there was little sentient life and then get into the center of the star wars galaxy and proceed to travel forward in time until they find something evolved enough that's worth assimilating.



Well actually a better reason is they decided to go back in time because the borg queen was aboard. Just like the borg queen was onboard lucutis's cube and she used time travel to escape in that situation too.



not if they go back in time really far before entering the star wars galaxy to ensure safe passage through the star wars galaxy.

Where is there any proof of that! Explain and present your evedence.

---

You will see the tears of time.