marsh8472 - you are really an awful, awful debater. You're the classic Trektard who pays no attention to canon, ignores numbers, handwaves away onscreen data, assumes that all Trek technology will work perfectly and is in all ways superior to Wars technology "just because," and to top it all off, you're a dishonest debater. You've introduced a dozen "new" ways for Trek to defeat Wars, haven't provided evidence to support any of them, and refuse to acknowledge when counter-evidence is produced. Mike has pages of debates with 'tards like you who use the same techniques of just throwing shit on top of shit and insisting that the Warsies prove you wrong, otherwise you declare victory.

I guess other folks here might find entertainment in mocking and "debating" you, but I just find you annoying. It's too bad you're using wall of ignorance tactics, because you actually have a few interesting, if implausible and unsupported, ideas.

Wait - so Star Wars technology is thousands of years more advanced that Trek, and yet you're going to argue that Wars CANNOT create an inverse tachyon pulse? That's like arguing that the United States is incapable of forging copper spears.

Writers of star wars and fan relations people state that The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. The whole plot of the episode "year of hell" states that the ship is outside of space time. A few properties of the visuals are not enough to dispute this.



When did I say star wars technology is ahead of star treks? I don't see transporters, holographic doctors

Blah blah blah = "I refuse to accept Star Wars canon and will substitute my own opinions as I like"

I'll leave it to any mods who care to address your dishonest debate tactics, but you really are like talking to a brick wall.

It's a universally accepted fact that the Empire is vastly superior to the Federation by anyone who has done the research and isn't stuck in denial

We do see them use Droid Doctors since they are more efficient/utilitarian, oh and artificial spines/spinal cords, something the Federation can't make.

Also Transporters are in the EU, such as Warp Space (a Force power) and Mogwit's Hoop, (Used by a Stage Magician. Which is ironic since the philosophical issue of using Trek Transporters is pretty much the same as the premise for "The Prestige." though Vulcans believe in souls and use Transporters regularly) while military groups shun them, even Fett only used the Hoop once or twice.

At this point, having read much of the discussions, and to level the playing fields from 1 vs 10 to 1 on 1, I will strongly entertain the wishes of anyone who wants to challenge marsh8472 to a Colisseum debate on a SWvsST topic, providing marsh wishes to participate.

I would be up for it, if he is willing to do so and no one more astute than me is willing to pick up the challenge.

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SoS:NBA GALE Force 上智大学に少し奴隷
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

I would be against any coliseum debate until the guy has shown that he can either provide evidence, argue honestly or concede a point. I do not want Ruben MK3.

So here is my challenge to him before my mind on this will change:

Earlier on he claimed that ST ships ramming an ISD will cause tremendous damage. I now ask him to show that they can do so by calculating the energy such a collision will release against the ISD and prove that this is enough to damage/destroy the ISD.

He conveniently ignored all my points in my reply, so unless he answers that one, what is the use?

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Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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"You know, you insist government is depraved for not legislating against what we can see on newsstands, or what we can see in an art exhibit, or what we can burn in protest, or which sex we can have sex with, or a woman's right to choose, but don't you dare try to regulate this deadly weapon I have concealed on me, for that would encroach against my freedom!"
- Sam Seaborn
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Et si omnes ego non

He won't do it. I have been trying to get him to provide some numbers on 8472 fire power and he goes off on he based it on coolness factor.

Really? Species 8472 was cool back when I was 10 (?), but in retrospect, the coolest thing they did was rip off the Death Star. So by this line of reasoning whatever coolness they have comes from Star Wars. Ergo, they lose.

You can read it in all of it glory here

He has a Species 8472 avatar. That's all I need to see. He's a fanwhore. No wonder he's such a fuckwit.

While he IS a complete fuckwit as evidenced by the trinary of threads on the same topic wherein marshinsertnumber utterly failed to actually address any points whatsoever I fail to see how his AVATAR (which said person doesn't even HAVE here) figures into it.

That OP and the entire threat is classic no numbers bullshit. Is this typical of the startrek.com board, or are these folks especially douchey?

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Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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"You know, you insist government is depraved for not legislating against what we can see on newsstands, or what we can see in an art exhibit, or what we can burn in protest, or which sex we can have sex with, or a woman's right to choose, but don't you dare try to regulate this deadly weapon I have concealed on me, for that would encroach against my freedom!"
- Sam Seaborn
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Et si omnes ego non

Yeah sorry a little late for that he already followed me here

His claim is that Species 8472's weapons are more powerful because they are cooler makes sense only if you are a complete fucking fanwhore for S8472. The fact that he has an S8472 AV is just more evidence of that. That's how it figures into it.

Also, sorry Thanas.

This is from the other site - again, no numbers.

To use a real-world example: the Chicxulub asteroid created an impact of 100,000,000 megatons (100,000 gigatons if my math is correct), which would suggest that a 200 gigaton impact would NOT, in fact, level California.

That depends on your definition of 'level' I guess. Going by the Nuclear Explosion Effects Calculator on the main site a 200GT event likely WOULD seriously fuck up if not outright cripple all of California. If turbolasers released their energy the same way modern day nukes do at any rate.

That's a good point. I interpret "level" as complete destruction of everything - plants, animals, buildings, perhaps even mountain ranges, but there are other interpretations of "level."

However, even with a 200 GT blast, the fireball only has a radius of 57 km and the "total destruction" zone is 405.5 kilometers. That's not going to destroy the entire state by itself, although fallout and the like will seriously fuck things up.

Moving the goalposts, ignoring canon, inventing stuff out of thin air, not backing up your claims. It's hard to debate worse than you do. But you know what? I'll play along for the moment just for show. That's right, every SW ship can release tachyons. In a controlled manner, too. Now, I'm sure you're going to next claim "inverse" means something important, even though an inverse tachyon pulse is just a form of scanning. One might also note that the Federation only learned to utilize tachyons beyond the 22nd century, while it's common enough in Star Wars that it's merely an unremarkable device fit on tiny snubfighters.

Besides, your so-called superweapon requires three *divergent* timelines inverse tachyon pulses converging at the same spot to create an eruption, and that's taking all your bullshit at face value. It'll be most interesting to see what kind of excuse you'll try to mount next.

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Star Trek vs. Star Wars, Extralife style.

Delayed reaction, but I just realized something-- his name, marsh8472, is also evidence of his fanwhore-ism.

not according to this site. http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... llers.html says 10 to 100 gigatons can do this:



maybe you should start a thread and debate this with everyone.



I say you need federation technology because they use their main deflector dish to produce this effect as well which could be significant. Star wars ships don't have this ability. And, yes, there's the question of what "inverse" means before jumping to conclusions that star wars has this technology you should figure that out (and if you can't then that's just too bad for you).

There is a vast region of space past the mid-rim of the star wars galaxy uncharted by any known galactic power. If it was really necessary for a ship to venture into their galaxy undetected they could enter their galaxy through the uncharted region and conduct the attack there.

here are numbers i came up with and posted else where first
200 GT with E^2 = (pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2 now make c=1 to get

E^2 = (xm)^2 + m^2 were x is v/c with p = vm and x < 1

E^2 = (1.xm)^2 ==> E = 1.xm

since i do not know the speed of turbo laser travel, but it is seen to be dodge able lets go with ~0
so E = m
and with 1 GT = 4.184 x 10^18 joules

we get 200 GT = 8.368 x 10^20 joules of energy

now a hydrogen bomb has about 10^17 to 10^18 joules of energy and can destroy completely all structures in a 2 mile range and damage structures up to 6 miles away
do a conversion and the 200 GT turbo laser could destroy everything in about a 8 to 32 mile range and affect stuff for up to another 80 miles

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all i have to say Arthur is this... SPOON

Hey I just noticed with everyone talking so much now, no one touched this point I made about using collision at warp speed as a weapon.





I appreciate that you're trying to show that 200 gigatons can be realistic but it's not. A hydrogen bomb called Tsar Bomba could cause 3rd degree burns 62 miles away and it could be seen and felt 620 miles way. That only had a yield of only 50 megatons.