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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 01:15pm
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marsh8472 - you are really an awful, awful debater. You're the classic Trektard who pays no attention to canon, ignores numbers, handwaves away onscreen data, assumes that all Trek technology will work perfectly and is in all ways superior to Wars technology "just because," and to top it all off, you're a dishonest debater. You've introduced a dozen "new" ways for Trek to defeat Wars, haven't provided evidence to support any of them, and refuse to acknowledge when counter-evidence is produced. Mike has pages of debates with 'tards like you who use the same techniques of just throwing shit on top of shit and insisting that the Warsies prove you wrong, otherwise you declare victory.

I guess other folks here might find entertainment in mocking and "debating" you, but I just find you annoying. It's too bad you're using wall of ignorance tactics, because you actually have a few interesting, if implausible and unsupported, ideas.



In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 01:16pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
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If Star Trek can use this process over several decades, what's to stop the Empire from utilizing the same process on the Federation in a matter of days or weeks?


their inability to make an inverse tachyon pulse along with not knowing that an inverse tachyon pulse can do this.


Wait - so Star Wars technology is thousands of years more advanced that Trek, and yet you're going to argue that Wars CANNOT create an inverse tachyon pulse? That's like arguing that the United States is incapable of forging copper spears.



In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 01:29pm
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SancheztheWhaler wrote:
marsh8472 - you are really an awful, awful debater. You're the classic Trektard who pays no attention to canon, ignores numbers, handwaves away onscreen data, assumes that all Trek technology will work perfectly and is in all ways superior to Wars technology "just because," and to top it all off, you're a dishonest debater. You've introduced a dozen "new" ways for Trek to defeat Wars, haven't provided evidence to support any of them, and refuse to acknowledge when counter-evidence is produced. Mike has pages of debates with 'tards like you who use the same techniques of just throwing shit on top of shit and insisting that the Warsies prove you wrong, otherwise you declare victory.

I guess other folks here might find entertainment in mocking and "debating" you, but I just find you annoying. It's too bad you're using wall of ignorance tactics, because you actually have a few interesting, if implausible and unsupported, ideas.


Writers of star wars and fan relations people state that The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. The whole plot of the episode "year of hell" states that the ship is outside of space time. A few properties of the visuals are not enough to dispute this.

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Wait - so Star Wars technology is thousands of years more advanced that Trek, and yet you're going to argue that Wars CANNOT create an inverse tachyon pulse? That's like arguing that the United States is incapable of forging copper spears.


When did I say star wars technology is ahead of star treks? I don't see transporters, holographic doctors

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 01:38pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote:
marsh8472 - you are really an awful, awful debater. You're the classic Trektard who pays no attention to canon, ignores numbers, handwaves away onscreen data, assumes that all Trek technology will work perfectly and is in all ways superior to Wars technology "just because," and to top it all off, you're a dishonest debater. You've introduced a dozen "new" ways for Trek to defeat Wars, haven't provided evidence to support any of them, and refuse to acknowledge when counter-evidence is produced. Mike has pages of debates with 'tards like you who use the same techniques of just throwing shit on top of shit and insisting that the Warsies prove you wrong, otherwise you declare victory.

I guess other folks here might find entertainment in mocking and "debating" you, but I just find you annoying. It's too bad you're using wall of ignorance tactics, because you actually have a few interesting, if implausible and unsupported, ideas.


Writers of star wars and fan relations people state that The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. The whole plot of the episode "year of hell" states that the ship is outside of space time. A few properties of the visuals are not enough to dispute this.

Quote:
Wait - so Star Wars technology is thousands of years more advanced that Trek, and yet you're going to argue that Wars CANNOT create an inverse tachyon pulse? That's like arguing that the United States is incapable of forging copper spears.


When did I say star wars technology is ahead of star treks? I don't see transporters, holographic doctors



Blah blah blah = "I refuse to accept Star Wars canon and will substitute my own opinions as I like"

I'll leave it to any mods who care to address your dishonest debate tactics, but you really are like talking to a brick wall.



In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 02:16pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
When did I say star wars technology is ahead of star treks? I don't see transporters, holographic doctors


It's a universally accepted fact that the Empire is vastly superior to the Federation by anyone who has done the research and isn't stuck in denial

We do see them use Droid Doctors since they are more efficient/utilitarian, oh and artificial spines/spinal cords, something the Federation can't make.

Also Transporters are in the EU, such as Warp Space (a Force power) and Mogwit's Hoop, (Used by a Stage Magician. Which is ironic since the philosophical issue of using Trek Transporters is pretty much the same as the premise for "The Prestige." though Vulcans believe in souls and use Transporters regularly) while military groups shun them, even Fett only used the Hoop once or twice.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 02:21pm
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At this point, having read much of the discussions, and to level the playing fields from 1 vs 10 to 1 on 1, I will strongly entertain the wishes of anyone who wants to challenge marsh8472 to a Colisseum debate on a SWvsST topic, providing marsh wishes to participate.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 03:14pm
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Lagmonster wrote:
At this point, having read much of the discussions, and to level the playing fields from 1 vs 10 to 1 on 1, I will strongly entertain the wishes of anyone who wants to challenge marsh8472 to a Colisseum debate on a SWvsST topic, providing marsh wishes to participate.

I would be up for it, if he is willing to do so and no one more astute than me is willing to pick up the challenge.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 03:16pm
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I would be against any coliseum debate until the guy has shown that he can either provide evidence, argue honestly or concede a point. I do not want Ruben MK3.

So here is my challenge to him before my mind on this will change:

Earlier on he claimed that ST ships ramming an ISD will cause tremendous damage. I now ask him to show that they can do so by calculating the energy such a collision will release against the ISD and prove that this is enough to damage/destroy the ISD.

He conveniently ignored all my points in my reply, so unless he answers that one, what is the use?



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 05:35pm
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Thanas wrote:
I would be against any coliseum debate until the guy has shown that he can either provide evidence, argue honestly or concede a point. I do not want Ruben MK3.

So here is my challenge to him before my mind on this will change:

Earlier on he claimed that ST ships ramming an ISD will cause tremendous damage. I now ask him to show that they can do so by calculating the energy such a collision will release against the ISD and prove that this is enough to damage/destroy the ISD.

He conveniently ignored all my points in my reply, so unless he answers that one, what is the use?

He won't do it. I have been trying to get him to provide some numbers on 8472 fire power and he goes off on he based it on coolness factor.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 05:49pm
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Really? Species 8472 was cool back when I was 10 (?), but in retrospect, the coolest thing they did was rip off the Death Star. So by this line of reasoning whatever coolness they have comes from Star Wars. Ergo, they lose. :twisted:



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 05:57pm
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Formless wrote:
Really? Species 8472 was cool back when I was 10 (?), but in retrospect, the coolest thing they did was rip off the Death Star. So by this line of reasoning whatever coolness they have comes from Star Wars. Ergo, they lose. :twisted:

You can read it in all of it glory here

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 05:58pm
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He has a Species 8472 avatar. That's all I need to see. He's a fanwhore. No wonder he's such a fuckwit. :roll:



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“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:05pm
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While he IS a complete fuckwit as evidenced by the trinary of threads on the same topic wherein marshinsertnumber utterly failed to actually address any points whatsoever I fail to see how his AVATAR (which said person doesn't even HAVE here) figures into it.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:08pm
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hunter5 wrote:
Formless wrote:
Really? Species 8472 was cool back when I was 10 (?), but in retrospect, the coolest thing they did was rip off the Death Star. So by this line of reasoning whatever coolness they have comes from Star Wars. Ergo, they lose. :twisted:

You can read it in all of it glory here




That OP and the entire threat is classic no numbers bullshit. Is this typical of the startrek.com board, or are these folks especially douchey?



Quote:
I'd say species 8472 because a fleet of species 8472 bioships would easily take out the imperial star destroyers

A single bioship could probably destroy a star destroyer with only a couple of shots or at least disable it

If it only takes 9 bioships to destroy an entire planet, I don't think it would take many to destroy a super star destroyer or the death star



In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:10pm
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Also, do not bring disputes from other boards in here. We kinda tend to frown on that in here, as usually said disputes involve a number of idiots (eg: 90% of ST.com posters), which the board can do without.



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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:12pm
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Thanas wrote:
Also, do not bring disputes from other boards in here. We kinda tend to frown on that in here, as usually said disputes involve a number of idiots (eg: 90% of ST.com posters), which the board can do without.

Yeah sorry a little late for that he already followed me here :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:12pm
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Batman wrote:
While he IS a complete fuckwit as evidenced by the trinary of threads on the same topic wherein marshinsertnumber utterly failed to actually address any points whatsoever I fail to see how his AVATAR (which said person doesn't even HAVE here) figures into it.

His claim is that Species 8472's weapons are more powerful because they are cooler makes sense only if you are a complete fucking fanwhore for S8472. The fact that he has an S8472 AV is just more evidence of that. That's how it figures into it. :P

Also, sorry Thanas.



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"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:27pm
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marshall8472 wrote:
200 gigatons should be enough to level california.


This is from the other site - again, no numbers.

To use a real-world example: the Chicxulub asteroid created an impact of 100,000,000 megatons (100,000 gigatons if my math is correct), which would suggest that a 200 gigaton impact would NOT, in fact, level California. :banghead:



In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:38pm
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That depends on your definition of 'level' I guess. Going by the Nuclear Explosion Effects Calculator on the main site a 200GT event likely WOULD seriously fuck up if not outright cripple all of California. If turbolasers released their energy the same way modern day nukes do at any rate.



'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kids with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 06:41pm
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Batman wrote:
That depends on your definition of 'level' I guess. Going by the Nuclear Explosion Effects Calculator on the main site a 200GT event likely WOULD seriously fuck up if not outright cripple all of California. If turbolasers released their energy the same way modern day nukes do at any rate.


That's a good point. I interpret "level" as complete destruction of everything - plants, animals, buildings, perhaps even mountain ranges, but there are other interpretations of "level."

However, even with a 200 GT blast, the fireball only has a radius of 57 km and the "total destruction" zone is 405.5 kilometers. That's not going to destroy the entire state by itself, although fallout and the like will seriously fuck things up.



In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 08:23pm
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marsh8472 wrote:
their inability to make an inverse tachyon pulse along with not knowing that an inverse tachyon pulse can do this.


Moving the goalposts, ignoring canon, inventing stuff out of thin air, not backing up your claims. It's hard to debate worse than you do. But you know what? I'll play along for the moment just for show. That's right, every SW ship can release tachyons. In a controlled manner, too. Now, I'm sure you're going to next claim "inverse" means something important, even though an inverse tachyon pulse is just a form of scanning. One might also note that the Federation only learned to utilize tachyons beyond the 22nd century, while it's common enough in Star Wars that it's merely an unremarkable device fit on tiny snubfighters.

Besides, your so-called superweapon requires three *divergent* timelines inverse tachyon pulses converging at the same spot to create an eruption, and that's taking all your bullshit at face value. It'll be most interesting to see what kind of excuse you'll try to mount next.



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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-19 10:15pm
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Formless wrote:
Batman wrote:
While he IS a complete fuckwit as evidenced by the trinary of threads on the same topic wherein marshinsertnumber utterly failed to actually address any points whatsoever I fail to see how his AVATAR (which said person doesn't even HAVE here) figures into it.

His claim is that Species 8472's weapons are more powerful because they are cooler makes sense only if you are a complete fucking fanwhore for S8472. The fact that he has an S8472 AV is just more evidence of that. That's how it figures into it. :P

Delayed reaction, but I just realized something-- his name, marsh8472, is also evidence of his fanwhore-ism.



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"Still, I would love to see human beings, and their constituent organ systems, trivialized and commercialized to the same extent as damn iPods and other crappy consumer products. It would be absolutely horrific, yet so wonderful." — Shroom Man 777
"To Err is Human; to Arrr is Pirate." — Skallagrim
“I would suggest "Schmuckulating", which is what Futurists do and, by extension, what they are." — Commenter "Rayneau"

The Magic Eight Ball Conspiracy.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-20 02:57am
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SancheztheWhaler wrote:
marshall8472 wrote:
200 gigatons should be enough to level california.


This is from the other site - again, no numbers.

To use a real-world example: the Chicxulub asteroid created an impact of 100,000,000 megatons (100,000 gigatons if my math is correct), which would suggest that a 200 gigaton impact would NOT, in fact, level California. :banghead:



not according to this site. http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... llers.html says 10 to 100 gigatons can do this:

Quote:
Land impact destroys a large state (eg- California, France, Japan) and produces enough atmospheric dust loading to affect global climate, freezing crops. Ocean impact creates hemisphere-spanning tsunamis but no global climate change. Global ozone layer is heavily damaged.


maybe you should start a thread and debate this with everyone.

Quote:
Moving the goalposts, ignoring canon, inventing stuff out of thin air, not backing up your claims. It's hard to debate worse than you do. But you know what? I'll play along for the moment just for show. That's right, every SW ship can release tachyons. In a controlled manner, too. Now, I'm sure you're going to next claim "inverse" means something important, even though an inverse tachyon pulse is just a form of scanning. One might also note that the Federation only learned to utilize tachyons beyond the 22nd century, while it's common enough in Star Wars that it's merely an unremarkable device fit on tiny snubfighters.

Besides, your so-called superweapon requires three *divergent* timelines inverse tachyon pulses converging at the same spot to create an eruption, and that's taking all your bullshit at face value. It'll be most interesting to see what kind of excuse you'll try to mount next.


I say you need federation technology because they use their main deflector dish to produce this effect as well which could be significant. Star wars ships don't have this ability. And, yes, there's the question of what "inverse" means before jumping to conclusions that star wars has this technology you should figure that out (and if you can't then that's just too bad for you).

There is a vast region of space past the mid-rim of the star wars galaxy uncharted by any known galactic power. If it was really necessary for a ship to venture into their galaxy undetected they could enter their galaxy through the uncharted region and conduct the attack there.

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-20 04:57am
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here are numbers i came up with and posted else where first
200 GT with E^2 = (pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2 now make c=1 to get

E^2 = (xm)^2 + m^2 were x is v/c with p = vm and x < 1

E^2 = (1.xm)^2 ==> E = 1.xm

since i do not know the speed of turbo laser travel, but it is seen to be dodge able lets go with ~0
so E = m
and with 1 GT = 4.184 x 10^18 joules

we get 200 GT = 8.368 x 10^20 joules of energy

now a hydrogen bomb has about 10^17 to 10^18 joules of energy and can destroy completely all structures in a 2 mile range and damage structures up to 6 miles away
do a conversion and the 200 GT turbo laser could destroy everything in about a 8 to 32 mile range and affect stuff for up to another 80 miles



all i have to say Arthur is this... SPOON

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 Post subject: Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps) PostPosted: 2010-02-20 05:14am
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Hey I just noticed with everyone talking so much now, no one touched this point I made about using collision at warp speed as a weapon.

Quote:
RIKER: Mister Crusher, ready a collision course with the Borg ship. You heard me. A collision course.
WESLEY: Yes, sir.
RIKER: Mister La Forge, prepare to go to warp power.
LAFORGE [OC]: Aye, sir.


Quote:
here are numbers i came up with and posted else where first
200 GT with E^2 = (pc)^2 + (mc^2)^2 now make c=1 to get

E^2 = (xm)^2 + m^2 were x is v/c with p = vm and x < 1

E^2 = (1.xm)^2 ==> E = 1.xm

since i do not know the speed of turbo laser travel, but it is seen to be dodge able lets go with ~0
so E = m
and with 1 GT = 4.184 x 10^18 joules

we get 200 GT = 8.368 x 10^20 joules of energy

now a hydrogen bomb has about 10^17 to 10^18 joules of energy and can destroy completely all structures in a 2 mile range and damage structures up to 6 miles away
do a conversion and the 200 GT turbo laser could destroy everything in about a 8 to 32 mile range and affect stuff for up to another 80 miles


I appreciate that you're trying to show that 200 gigatons can be realistic but it's not. A hydrogen bomb called Tsar Bomba could cause 3rd degree burns 62 miles away and it could be seen and felt 620 miles way. That only had a yield of only 50 megatons.

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