How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

Moderator: Vympel

Locked
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Thanas »

marsh8472 wrote:ok one more hoop
You will of course also show how much of that energy actually impacts on the Star Destroyer itself given its shield strength?
considering that the millenium falcon was able to fly at one and make contact with its hull i'm not sure I have to. But according to st-vs-sw the star destroyer has absorbed as much as 1e20 joules of energy so it should absorb about 0.00003% of the impact.
That is not an answer nor an argument, provide evidence and then argue about it.
You will also demonstrate how it is capable for a warp ship to collide with an object not in warp?
the same way riker was about to do it. Have your flight path pass through the ship.
Because they will manage to catch up with a moving SW fleet...how?
You will also demonstrate how full impulse is 0.25c?
that's the most popular figure I got when I searched. It was actually a conservative one too. I was thinking of using the 0.9c figure.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... cc3f1b6d5d <-- click
Show me the evidence yourself. I have no time nor the inclination to wade through google for you.
And you will demonstrate when the borg have shown superior or equal speed and maneuverability to an ISD?
has nothing to do with ramming,
Actually, sublight speed etc has everything to do with ramming.
YOu will also name the source for the weight of the borg cube?
http://www.ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/ ... hp?brgcube says 90 million tons
And the evidence for that is....where?
You will also prove how a Borg cube can withstand over 100 volleys of an ISD, which should be about the number it will receive before it gets even into ramming range (and even that requires the Imps to be fast asleep at the helm)?
at 0.25c you really think they'll be able to get that many shots off before the cube slams into them? :D They'll do it with adaptive shielding.
Because you say so?
SHELBY: Projections suggest that a Borg ship like this one could continue to function effectively even if seventy eight percent of it was inoperable.


that's how

pretty easy questions
You will now of course show how much firepower a borg cube can absorb?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Serafina »

Wow, using the Daystrom Institute page.... :lol:

Let me tell you something:
The guy running that site can't do math. His site SUCKS. It is NOT an original source.

Likewise, Google is not a source.
considering that the millenium falcon was able to fly at one and make contact with its hull i'm not sure I have to. But according to st-vs-sw the star destroyer has absorbed as much as 1e20 joules of energy so it should absorb about 0.00003% of the impact.
And how do you know he surpassed the shields? Don't you even understand what hullhugging means?
has nothing to do with ramming, we see ships ram star destroyers before and they didn't have time to react fast enough to go to hyperdrive. The borg do have the use of transwarp hubs which allow them to travel across the galaxy in a short period of time, probably faster than the hyperdrive.
And i guess transwarp hubs can be used for ramming now.

Yes, you are actualyl somehwat correct - transwarp hubs could be a bit faster than hyperdrive.
But since they can be destroyed and provide convenient chockepoints AND take a long time to build they are really not that much of an advantage.
Let me put it into an example:
Suppose one side in a war can cross any terrain they want at 500 km/h. The other side is limited to 50 km/h but has a dozen teleporter nodes in their own territory.
Now, which side has the advantage of mobility?
SHELBY: Projections suggest that a Borg ship like this one could continue to function effectively even if seventy eight percent of it was inoperable.
Proven wrong by numerous episodes and ST:TFC. Borg cubes have critical systems that can be blown up.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
hogie1
Redshirt
Posts: 9
Joined: 2010-02-14 04:16pm

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by hogie1 »

Now, which side has the advantage of mobility?
Suppose one side in a war can cross any terrain they want at 500 km/h. The other side is limited to 50 km/h but has a dozen teleporter nodes in their own territory.
Now, which side has the advantage of mobility?
The side with teleporters has the tactical mobility advantage since they can move their forces to any front in their territory with teleportation, this allows for far more of a tactical advantage than you may think. It is in a way like air support which gives you a position quickly and can create flanking and other maneuvers easier which gives the true advantage in military tactical mobility
all i have to say Arthur is this... SPOON
marsh8472
Youngling
Posts: 142
Joined: 2010-02-14 07:32am

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by marsh8472 »

in other words it would take an infinite number of hoops to satisfy you.
That is not an answer nor an argument, provide evidence and then argue about it.
sure it's an argument. Plus we see asteroids collide with the star destroyers. Asteroids significantly smaller than a borg cube and the asteroids caused significant damage while demonstrating the star destroyers lack of maneuverability to get around them.
Show me the evidence yourself. I have no time nor the inclination to wade through google for you.
I need no evidence to support canon facts. Just like i have no time to do that right now, got work.
Actually, sublight speed etc has everything to do with ramming.
asteroids that go slower than 0.25c yet the star destroyer cannot destroy them with their weapons or move thier vessel around them to avoid damage.
And the evidence for that is....where?
in various other episodes they state the mass of smaller ships to have almost the same mass as this.
Because you say so?
they won't get 100 shots off because you say so either. You'll need to provide proof of this. You will of course how to prove your claim before I need to prove the counter claim.
You will now of course show how much firepower a borg cube can absorb?
It varies depending on how much they've adapted. You're just changing the goal post is all. The question was whether ramming would cause damage to the destroyer or not. It's obvious that it will so now you provide defenses for it.


that's enough hoop jumping for now. Your questions don't even relate to this thread.
User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Serafina »

hogie1 wrote:Now, which side has the advantage of mobility?
Suppose one side in a war can cross any terrain they want at 500 km/h. The other side is limited to 50 km/h but has a dozen teleporter nodes in their own territory.
Now, which side has the advantage of mobility?
The side with teleporters has the tactical mobility advantage since they can move their forces to any front in their territory with teleportation, this allows for far more of a tactical advantage than you may think. It is in a way like air support which gives you a position quickly and can create flanking and other maneuvers easier which gives the true advantage in military tactical mobility
Yeah, if they are fighting right next to the teleporters - but even then, that would just be a way for quick reinforcements or retreats - and transwarphubs are potentially usable by the enemy, too.
In all other aspects, the side which can move freely and unrestricted has the massive advantage.
Especially since strategic mobility is the important thing here - the side with the fast speed can invade the one with the teleporters at will, why the teleporter-side would get slaughtered by overwhelming forces if they try an invasion.
marsh8472 wrote: Plus we see asteroids collide with the star destroyers. Asteroids significantly smaller than a borg cube and the asteroids caused significant damage while demonstrating the star destroyers lack of maneuverability to get around them.
Yes - because they lowered their damn shields!. Yes, it was stupid to lower the shields just because Vader wanted a holo-conference instead of plain old video.
Besides, the Star Destroyer was not even destroyed - all that happened was that communications were cut off, hardly a crippling hit.
marsh8472 wrote:I need no evidence to support canon facts. Just like i have no time to do that right now, got work.
Um...if they are FACTS, then show them. Because that's what evidence MEANS - using facts to support an assertion.
Seriously, don't you even know the meaning of basic words?
marsh8472 wrote:asteroids that go slower than 0.25c yet the star destroyer cannot destroy them with their weapons or move thier vessel around them to avoid damage.
Yeah, because we never saw an asteroid destroyed by an SD - ooops, we did :oops: Oh, and there were asteroids everywhere, in case you are to blinded by ENT-"nude skind=adult"-episodes - kinda hard to evade there, right?
marsh8472 wrote:they won't get 100 shots off because you say so either. You'll need to provide proof of this. You will of course how to prove your claim before I need to prove the counter claim.
Easy. Because unlike you, i actually know how to use evidence :lol:
The Imperial II-clas Star destroyer has:
-8 eight-barrel heavy turbolasers
-5 heavy turbolaser batteries
-and more than 30 medium and light turbolasers

That's 69 heavy turbolaser shots at more than 200 gigatons per shot at the opening salvo. Each shot is more than enough to vaporize the flimsy borg cube.
Since they fire about once per two seconds, you get another salvo within a short time.
That's not even counting the light and medium turbolasers, which are at least as powerfull as a quantum torpedo and will not be blocked by shield adaptation, since they are not frequency-based.

So it's quite possible for a humle Star Destroyer to get off more than a hundred shots which can each destroy a borg cube on their own.
marsh8472 wrote:It varies depending on how much they've adapted. You're just changing the goal post is all. The question was whether ramming would cause damage to the destroyer or not. It's obvious that it will so now you provide defenses for it.
Look, Trek shields work like this:
They are switched on and off in a very rapif succession, like an AC-current.
This means that a hit from a weapon at their peak strenght will only cause slight damage, while a weapon that hits at the right frequency will hit the point where they are off and bypass them.
We have tons of evidence for this - they talk about frequencies all the time, continuous radiation (like from a star) will always partially bypass the shields and so on.

The Borg are merely very good at rapidly changing their frequencies so that their shields are as good as possible against their enemy.
But since SW-weaons do not HAVE a frequency, this trick is totally useless.
marsh8472 wrote:
that's enough hoop jumping for now. Your questions don't even relate to this thread.
Thanas questions relate to YOUR CLAIMS. Don't blame him if you are too stupid to remember what you wrote, you dipshit.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
User avatar
Teleros
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1544
Joined: 2006-03-31 02:11pm
Location: Ultra Prime, Klovia
Contact:

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Teleros »

Rather than reply to the last few pages, I thought I'd focus on Thanas' questions. Some pointers for marsh8472, from Memory Alpha:
You will also demonstrate how full impulse is 0.25c?
Impulse drive speeds vary quite a bit in Voyager: Voyager's top speed has been said to be both 2/3c and 0.8c. I haven't seen figures for a similar speed for Borg cubes though.
Also note that I don't know how much time it will take to accelerate to these velocities.
YOu will also name the source for the weight of the borg cube?
1. Memory Alpha states that the first borg cube encountered was 3km on each side. 2.7e10 cubic metres in other words.
2. Assuming it was made of iron, a volume that large (going by the figure of 7850kg/m^3 here), would mass ~2.12e11kg.
3. However, it is clearly not solid metal. Assuming that 90% of the volume is empty, the mass of the cube should be 2.1195e10kg, or ~21.2 million tonnes.
4. The densest metal on that site is platinum (21400kg per m^3), so even if the ship were made entirely of platinum, the result would only be ~57.8 million tonnes.


They'll do it with adaptive shielding.
Proof that the Borg can adapt to firepower measured in hundreds of gigatons? See Borg ships damaged by stellar radiation, low-velocity debris from the exploding planet in "Scorpion pt 1", regular 8472 ships blowing them to kingdom come, Starfleet blowing a cube up in "First Contact", that lone 8472 dismembering Borg drones (in case you want to try the old "adapt to kinetic impacts" one) and so on and so forth.
SHELBY: Projections suggest that a Borg ship like this one could continue to function effectively even if seventy eight percent of it was inoperable.
Clearly the projections were wrong - borg cubes have been repeatedly destroyed after much less damage.
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Oskuro »

Note: For the sake of brevity, I'm avoiding the regular line by line format. I'm replying to this post. Besides, he keeps repeating the same idiotic points over and over, so no need to address them repeatedly
Oh man, you are an idiot. And a barely articulate one at that.

First, you put too much faith in Q, a character who has more often than not toyed with the protagonists for no better reason than just having fun. Furthermore, Q is supposed to have reality bending powers, or, in other words, he cheats and alters the rules, so whatever he can do (like, I don't know, guiding Picard through the whole mess) cannot be replicated by lesser beings (as in "the rest of the Universe").
You yourself admit that the whole thing took place due to Q's intervention, so, without him, there's little that can be accomplished.
Actually the only reason it happened once was because Q kinda nudged picard into doing it which wouldn't happen under normal circumstances.
QED.


Secondly, you have no idea what time travelling entails. You claim that there's no incongruence because the anomaly would happen after it is caused by the ships. But since it travels back through time, it would actually happen before it is caused, wich is either a pre-destination paradox, or a violation of causality, both of wich work aganist your theory. You keep making this flawed point over and over.

Thirdly, anti-time is not a magic word that solves all your problems. You keep using it as a buzzword to avoid complications, but fail to realize that it makes no sense. Try chaging anti-time with dehodorant to realize how pointless it is. You are not providing arguments, you're just repeating yourself (aka Broken Record tactic).
PICARD: Are you saying that it worked? We collapsed the anomaly?
Q: Is that all this meant to you? Just another spatial anomaly, just another day at the office?
PICARD: Did it work?
QUE: Well, you're here, aren't you? You're talking to me, aren't you?
PICARD: What about my crew?
Q: The anomaly, my ship, my crew, I suppose you're worried about your fish, too. Well, if it puts your mind at ease, you've saved humanity, once again.
Firstly, Q cannot be trusted. Secondly, Q never explicitly states anything, he just hints at it. It could all as well have been a game on Q's part, wich, if his point was to show to the rest of the continnum that humanity is worthwile, would be a good idea.
Besides, dialog has to be taken with a grain of salt, or else (as has been pointed out to you) the Force could destroy galaxies, and throwing The Fallen into a black hole would have no effect unless the black hole turns out to be a Prime.


Fourthly (or Fifthly, I lose count), work on your reading comprehension, and read the whole proposition before answering in rage. I explained how the anomaly grows into the past, and shrinks into the future, and how that would make it likely for it to be detected, and you reply with "there's nothing they can do about it because the anomaly grows into the past and shrinks into the future". Brilliant.

Also, you're incredibly retarded if you expect Picard's logs to magically stay in place when, you know, all he did in the episode (save his memory) is reset at the end. As for Picard's knowledge, him memorizing things so he can relay them between incarnations of Data hardly counts as comprehension.
Still, it's irrelevant. You completely ignore Picard's character because it suits you, you ignore that such a lawful person, with such a sense of duty to humanity (and life in general) would rather have himself killed than let the formula for ultimate destruction fall in the wrong hands (a theme often explored in Trek), yet you expect him to leave that information lyign around so a hateful psycho (by your own admission) gets a hold of it. Do you really like Trek? Because you're showing a great deal of disdain for it and what it stands for.


As for your comment on how in St vs SW we have to pick the best of each. You're an idiot. The idea here is not to simply have a dick waving competition, it is to use critical analysis to compare technologies for fun. Trying to decide if Q, Darth Revan, Doctor Who, Oma Desala or the Metabaron are stronger is pointless, since they cannot be quantified accurately, and thus cannot be discussed logically. But you've proven quite clearly that you're here for the dick waving.

Hard as it might be for you to believe, I'm not much of an Star Wars fan, I just like logical reasoning and sci-fi in general, but your attempts at defining me as a rabid warsie betray your true mindset: You want enemies to defeat, you don't care about logic, debate or even about the franchise you claim to love, you only care about being better than others and gloating about it. And that's sad, really. Or maybe you're just a kid (if only mentally), looking for approval from his peers or something.


Oh, a final note, you've admitted to being the creator of a certain Trek video that was featured on another thread. A video in wich you deleted criticism, banned critics, and even created fake accounts with similar names to make them sound idiotic and thus bolster your own position. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously at all when your debate tatics resemble a toddler screaming for attention? What will you try next? Holding your breath? Soiling yourself? Oh wait, you'll ignore any inconvenient points and twist facts to accomodate your needs, probably misquoting wildly to make yourself look better! Meh, it'd be more believable if you just soiled yourself.
unsigned
User avatar
Tribun
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2164
Joined: 2003-05-25 10:02am
Location: Lübeck, Germany
Contact:

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Tribun »

After reading through this mess.... wow, it's been a long time since we've last seen the classic Trektard (tm). Also that he needed less than a week to make this thing swell up to six pages tell us a lot, the whole video mess not included. For my part, I at the latest gave up on him when he gave credibility on the Daystrom Institute and Darkstar. After all, someone appealing to them can't be taken serious.

I for my part hope that Mike somehow finds this. After all, it's also been a long time since the last, proper Imperial Smackdown (tm), followed by the fist of Galvatron.
User avatar
takemeout_totheblack
Padawan Learner
Posts: 358
Joined: 2010-01-26 03:59pm
Location: Knowing where you are is no fun! Back to adventure!

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by takemeout_totheblack »

General Schatten wrote:That would be because:
Image

ISD also have substantially greater deflector shields than a Borg Cube.
Cool! An imperial cruiser has a mass of around 60 million metric tons (right?) as opposed to, what 4 million tons for a Galaxy class. But the question is how fast are they going when they exit hyper space? Pretty quick?
There should be an official metric in regard to stupidity, so we can insult the imbeciles, morons, and RSAs out there the civilized way.
Any ideas for units of measure?

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali fought a 80-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire earth was destroyed.
~George Foreman, February 27th 3000 C.E.
User avatar
takemeout_totheblack
Padawan Learner
Posts: 358
Joined: 2010-01-26 03:59pm
Location: Knowing where you are is no fun! Back to adventure!

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by takemeout_totheblack »

Thanas wrote:I notice Marshmellow here has still not replied to my demands. So we have some rules violations here.

Interesting.
Before you get the Imperial boot in here or something, could you let DW tear him up a bit? I've never seen an Imperial Smackdown while it progressed from blow to blow. This guy made my brain hurt whilst I rubber-necked through this whole thread, I think I speak for many when I say I want to see him get his just desserts!
Just a request, do what you will.
There should be an official metric in regard to stupidity, so we can insult the imbeciles, morons, and RSAs out there the civilized way.
Any ideas for units of measure?

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali fought a 80-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire earth was destroyed.
~George Foreman, February 27th 3000 C.E.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Thanas »

takemeout_totheblack wrote:
General Schatten wrote:That would be because:
Image

ISD also have substantially greater deflector shields than a Borg Cube.
Cool! An imperial cruiser has a mass of around 60 million metric tons (right?) as opposed to, what 4 million tons for a Galaxy class. But the question is how fast are they going when they exit hyper space? Pretty quick?
Close to C, probably. Whenever the exit of hyperspace is shown in media, the ship actually decelerates rapidly. This time, the exit and impact was near simultaneously.
takemeout_totheblack wrote:
Thanas wrote:I notice Marshmellow here has still not replied to my demands. So we have some rules violations here.

Interesting.
Before you get the Imperial boot in here or something, could you let DW tear him up a bit? I've never seen an Imperial Smackdown while it progressed from blow to blow. This guy made my brain hurt whilst I rubber-necked through this whole thread, I think I speak for many when I say I want to see him get his just desserts!
Just a request, do what you will.
This is not my forum, so I have no authority in it whatsoever. Also, I am pretty low in the moderator foodchain anyway and have no banning authority whatsoever. And even if I was the highest mod around (which I am not) DW could still do as he pleases because it is his board.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Lagmonster
Master Control Program
Master Control Program
Posts: 7719
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:53am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Lagmonster »

While hoping not to put words in Mike's mouth, my understanding of the man from his comments in the stickied tjhairball bluff thread is that he doesn't really enjoy wasting time arguing with stone-wall morons and children. While it might amuse him to come out of retirement, I suspect that it would take an honest and decent opponent to make it worth his while, and I don't think this marsh guy is up to the task.

Or to put it another way, if a grand master beats a novice, nobody says 'that was awesome'; they say, 'what was the point of that?'.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
User avatar
takemeout_totheblack
Padawan Learner
Posts: 358
Joined: 2010-01-26 03:59pm
Location: Knowing where you are is no fun! Back to adventure!

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by takemeout_totheblack »

That's a shame. So can we ban this...this thing and move on? My head's starting to hurt.
There should be an official metric in regard to stupidity, so we can insult the imbeciles, morons, and RSAs out there the civilized way.
Any ideas for units of measure?

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali fought a 80-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire earth was destroyed.
~George Foreman, February 27th 3000 C.E.
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12211
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Lord Revan »

takemeout_totheblack wrote:That's a shame. So can we ban this...this thing and move on? My head's starting to hurt.
I assume he will be banned as soon as one of the admins decides it's worth the effort, but before that he seems more or less single issue poster so as long as you stay away from SWvST you can pretty much ignore him (that's what I'm planning to do soon anyway if he doesn't smart up as atm I'd get more entertainment from talking to my wall).
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Lagmonster
Master Control Program
Master Control Program
Posts: 7719
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:53am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Lagmonster »

If you have a serious case that shows he's broken the rules, PM Mike or Dalton with your evidence and see what they say. In the meanwhile, if you really think further debate is fruitless, then just stop replying.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
marsh8472
Youngling
Posts: 142
Joined: 2010-02-14 07:32am

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by marsh8472 »

1. Memory Alpha states that the first borg cube encountered was 3km on each side. 2.7e10 cubic metres in other words.
2. Assuming it was made of iron, a volume that large (going by the figure of 7850kg/m^3 here), would mass ~2.12e11kg.
3. However, it is clearly not solid metal. Assuming that 90% of the volume is empty, the mass of the cube should be 2.1195e10kg, or ~21.2 million tonnes.
4. The densest metal on that site is platinum (21400kg per m^3), so even if the ship were made entirely of platinum, the result would only be ~57.8 million tonnes.
I'm not sure they say the mass of the borg cube in an episode although their tiny scout ships they said had a mass of 2.5 million tons as stated in an episode.
Yes - because they lowered their damn shields!. Yes, it was stupid to lower the shields just because Vader wanted a holo-conference instead of plain old video.
Besides, the Star Destroyer was not even destroyed - all that happened was that communications were cut off, hardly a crippling hit.
so stupid that it's safe to assume they wouldn't lower their shields for that reason. There's no evidence that i've seen which says that they need to lower their shields for this type of communication. If they are able to transmit video media data through the shields then they can transmit holo data through the shields too. Plus the scene demonstrates that the star destroyer doesn't have the firepower to destroy asteroids of that size since they didn't bother trying.
Proof that the Borg can adapt to firepower measured in hundreds of gigatons? See Borg ships damaged by stellar radiation, low-velocity debris from the exploding planet in "Scorpion pt 1", regular 8472 ships blowing them to kingdom come, Starfleet blowing a cube up in "First Contact", that lone 8472 dismembering Borg drones (in case you want to try the old "adapt to kinetic impacts" one) and so on and so forth.
hmm if you're referring to the solar eruption that destroyed the borg ship in "descent pt 2" that was a totally different kind of borg ship run by a totally different type of borg so you're comparing apples to oranges here.

it's unclear how much low-velocity debris was hitting the borg ship while the planet was exploding plus this was after the bioship attacked the borg ship and the firepower of the bioships is a contraversial matter. We see the firepower of 8 bioships demonstrate an equal amount of destructive power used to destroy the death star. I know the standard wars reply to this is to just claim that the weapon is chain reaction based and clear it from your mind that way but this is still an unproven opinion.

Captain picard knew a weakness of the borg cube in first contact. He asked the entire fleet to focus fire at a specific weak point. This has little to do with what their shields can adapt to.

A borg cube survives wolf 359 untouched, species 8472 bioweapons, the attack by the enterprise's main deflector. They don't need to have their shields absorb all the firepower either. Their hull can withstand quite a bit and they have an impressive ability to regenerate with their collective efforts.
Clearly the projections were wrong - borg cubes have been repeatedly destroyed after much less damage.
SHELBY: Projections suggest that a Borg ship like this one could continue to function effectively even if seventy eight percent of it was inoperable.
nope there's nothing that suggests that unless you assume that the borg ship like the one in "best of both worlds" is like other borg ships.

I would ask the people here to avoid the subject matter of the borg in their replies. The moderator Thanas just mentioned this to test me at basic math and has technically broken the forum rules by creating tangents unrelated to the topic at hand.
Oh man, you are an idiot. And a barely articulate one at that.
Then that would make your intellect the equivalent of an amoebas.
First, you put too much faith in Q, a character who has more often than not toyed with the protagonists for no better reason than just having fun. Furthermore, Q is supposed to have reality bending powers, or, in other words, he cheats and alters the rules, so whatever he can do (like, I don't know, guiding Picard through the whole mess) cannot be replicated by lesser beings (as in "the rest of the Universe").
You yourself admit that the whole thing took place due to Q's intervention, so, without him, there's little that can be accomplished.

Secondly, you have no idea what time travelling entails. You claim that there's no incongruence because the anomaly would happen after it is caused by the ships. But since it travels back through time, it would actually happen before it is caused, wich is either a pre-destination paradox, or a violation of causality, both of wich work aganist your theory. You keep making this flawed point over and over.
Q gives picard a helping hand while at the same time causes the event? Q says that picard causes the anomoly. Picard knows all about dealing with Q and picard believed him dispute this which shows that your claim is unfounded.
Picard: I know why it's happening. We caused the anomoly with the tachyon pulse
Data: I think I know what the captain is talking about. If I'm not mistaken, he's describing a paradox.
Data: it is possible. We could have caused the very anomaly we've been looking for. Let us assume for a moment that the captain has been traveling through time. Let us also assume that he has initiated a tachyon pulse at the same coordinates in all three time periods. In that case, it is possible that the convergence of thee tachyon pulses could have ruptured the subspace barrier and created an anti-time reaction.
Geordie: I see where you're going data. And because anti-time operates the way normal time does, the effects would travel backward through the space-time continuum.
Picard: yes, that's why it gets larger in the past. It grows as it travels backward in time.
Thirdly, anti-time is not a magic word that solves all your problems. You keep using it as a buzzword to avoid complications, but fail to realize that it makes no sense. Try chaging anti-time with dehodorant to realize how pointless it is. You are not providing arguments, you're just repeating yourself (aka Broken Record tactic).
No quotes from Q or use of anti-time here. They also say that the anomaly travels backward in time. The reason why the anomoly wasn't always there is because the anomoly hadn't reached that moment in time yet in that time period. In various episodes of enterprise they make references that the effects of certain changes in history haven't reached them yet. Plus it took time to repair the timeline after archer stopped the nazi aliens. You guys expect the changes to occur instantly but in some episodes of star trek we just don't see that.
Firstly, Q cannot be trusted. Secondly, Q never explicitly states anything, he just hints at it. It could all as well have been a game on Q's part, wich, if his point was to show to the rest of the continnum that humanity is worthwile, would be a good idea.
Besides, dialog has to be taken with a grain of salt, or else (as has been pointed out to you) the Force could destroy galaxies, and throwing The Fallen into a black hole would have no effect unless the black hole turns out to be a Prime.
actually Q does specifically state that he's not the one that will annihilate man-kind rather he is. I'm surprised you'd even claim that without checking it out.
Fourthly (or Fifthly, I lose count), work on your reading comprehension, and read the whole proposition before answering in rage. I explained how the anomaly grows into the past, and shrinks into the future, and how that would make it likely for it to be detected, and you reply with "there's nothing they can do about it because the anomaly grows into the past and shrinks into the future". Brilliant.
wow you lose count when you count to 5? Damn you are dumb, not sure I'll even bother wasting my time replying to your posts after this one. And I explained to you how the anomaly grows in the past.
Also, you're incredibly retarded if you expect Picard's logs to magically stay in place when, you know, all he did in the episode (save his memory) is reset at the end. As for Picard's knowledge, him memorizing things so he can relay them between incarnations of Data hardly counts as comprehension.
his memory improved as the episode went on. Remembering the details of how to do this doesn't require much. "An inverse tachyon pulse in 3 different time periods" - you really don't think he can remember that? really?? :roll: uhh ok
Still, it's irrelevant. You completely ignore Picard's character because it suits you, you ignore that such a lawful person, with such a sense of duty to humanity (and life in general) would rather have himself killed than let the formula for ultimate destruction fall in the wrong hands (a theme often explored in Trek), yet you expect him to leave that information lyign around so a hateful psycho (by your own admission) gets a hold of it. Do you really like Trek? Because you're showing a great deal of disdain for it and what it stands for.
He told his crew about what happened in the future. He would want to report how it happened to star fleet intelligence to avoid an incident like this from happening again. The whole point of history is to avoid making the same mistakes afterall. Then given enough time, some borg cube assimilates someone that knows about it and then they know how to do it. Then if the borg don't take advantage of the technology then maybe some pscyho that was liberated from the collective may want to do it or some psycho can aquire the information from a borg data node.
As for your comment on how in St vs SW we have to pick the best of each. You're an idiot. The idea here is not to simply have a dick waving competition, it is to use critical analysis to compare technologies for fun. Trying to decide if Q, Darth Revan, Doctor Who, Oma Desala or the Metabaron are stronger is pointless, since they cannot be quantified accurately, and thus cannot be discussed logically. But you've proven quite clearly that you're here for the dick waving.
As I already pointed out several times, you're the idiot. The federation is nothing in the 24th century. Using your logic, how about we argue whether the federation can destroy the ewoks instead since the ewoks abilities can be quantified as well. If the various races in the star trek galaxy cannot be quantified accurately then you just can't state that star wars is better than star trek. I like star trek and star wars but star wars fans always act like star trek would be a push over which I find silly given what I see on g-canon.
Oh, a final note, you've admitted to being the creator of a certain Trek video that was featured on another thread. A video in wich you deleted criticism, banned critics, and even created fake accounts with similar names to make them sound idiotic and thus bolster your own position. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously at all when your debate tatics resemble a toddler screaming for attention? What will you try next? Holding your breath? Soiling yourself? Oh wait, you'll ignore any inconvenient points and twist facts to accomodate your needs, probably misquoting wildly to make yourself look better! Meh, it'd be more believable if you just soiled yourself.
It keeps the video clean. From my point of view, it's a fact that the krenim would win. I addressed all of the criticism that was posted on the youtube video on forums at one time or another. This isn't really related to this thread either.
Cool! An imperial cruiser has a mass of around 60 million metric tons (right?) as opposed to, what 4 million tons for a Galaxy class. But the question is how fast are they going when they exit hyper space? Pretty quick?
:lol: come on... you have to resort to s-canon stuff to make the star destroyer look good? I like mine better

Image

this is the scene where people think that ateroids are being vaporized by a star destroyers weapons. It was really fragmentation as you can see.
User avatar
Srelex
Jedi Master
Posts: 1445
Joined: 2010-01-20 08:33pm

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Srelex »

In regards to the last one, it looks more like Imperial vessels colliding with asteroids. I'll leave it to someone else to decide what relevance that has.
"No, no, no, no! Light speed's too slow! Yes, we're gonna have to go right to... Ludicrous speed!"
User avatar
Teleros
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1544
Joined: 2006-03-31 02:11pm
Location: Ultra Prime, Klovia
Contact:

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Teleros »

I'm not sure they say the mass of the borg cube in an episode although their tiny scout ships they said had a mass of 2.5 million tons as stated in an episode.
*Shrug* Those are just my calcs for working out a cube's mass, given Star Trek's love of made-up elements it's quite possible my figures are out.
There's no evidence that i've seen which says that they need to lower their shields for this type of communication. If they are able to transmit video media data through the shields then they can transmit holo data through the shields too. Plus the scene demonstrates that the star destroyer doesn't have the firepower to destroy asteroids of that size since they didn't bother trying.
One of the other explanations given is that the ships were still recovering from the damage their systems suffered at Hoth, hence their poor showing in the Hoth asteroid belt. It should be obvious too that you wouldn't necessarily need the big guns to make a dent in those asteroids: if simply avoiding them is your goal, then you could use much smaller ones to change its speed and direction.
hmm if you're referring to the solar eruption that destroyed the borg ship in "descent pt 2" that was a totally different kind of borg ship run by a totally different type of borg so you're comparing apples to oranges here.
I realise that, but it seems odd that the Borg should be forced to use such low-tech alternatives. It also fails to explain how that ship could threaten the Ent-D.

it's unclear how much low-velocity debris was hitting the borg ship while the planet was exploding plus this was after the bioship attacked the borg ship and the firepower of the bioships is a contraversial matter. We see the firepower of 8 bioships demonstrate an equal amount of destructive power used to destroy the death star. I know the standard wars reply to this is to just claim that the weapon is chain reaction based and clear it from your mind that way but this is still an unproven opinion.
Calculating the kinetic energy and momentum of stuff travelling at that speed shouldn't be hard, although I doubt you could do it with just the YouTube video of it (you'd need frame-by-frame shots & then would have to compare it to a known object, like Voyager, for distance etc). As for the 8472 ships, I believe that they were actually a different type to the normal ones we see blowing up Borg ships.
A borg cube survives wolf 359 untouched, species 8472 bioweapons, the attack by the enterprise's main deflector. They don't need to have their shields absorb all the firepower either. Their hull can withstand quite a bit and they have an impressive ability to regenerate with their collective efforts.
Bear in mind Wolf 359 is a special case. The Borg knew almost exactly what to do in that engagement.
Q gives picard a helping hand while at the same time causes the event? Q says that picard causes the anomoly. Picard knows all about dealing with Q and picard believed him dispute this which shows that your claim is unfounded.
Or that Picard believed a lie, or that he didn't believe it but acted like he did in order to play Q's little game, etc etc.
No quotes from Q or use of anti-time here. They also say that the anomaly travels backward in time. The reason why the anomoly wasn't always there is because the anomoly hadn't reached that moment in time yet in that time period.
Properly speaking, they're hypothesising about the nature of the anomaly. Doesn't make them right, nor does it prevent Q from making it look like their hypothesis is right (ie, it's just a very good fake).
Srelex wrote:In regards to the last one, it looks more like Imperial vessels colliding with asteroids. I'll leave it to someone else to decide what relevance that has.
Worst case scenario, asteroids destroying fresh ISDs.
More likely scenario, asteroids damaging or destroying ISDs that haven't recovered from the Hoth ion cannons.
Of course, as we don't see any ISDs being blown up like that, you could possibly even argue that it never occurred, having been contradicted by higher level canon.



Moving on, how are your responses to Thanas' questions coming on? I gave you a few pointers re Borg cube mass & max impulse speeds from Memory Alpha after all...
User avatar
Serafina
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5246
Joined: 2009-01-07 05:37pm
Location: Germany

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Serafina »

Don't forget that they have been travelling trough that asteroid field for hours at least, with days being more likely and weeks being possible.
So they propably took hundreds or thousands of asteroid impacts (given the density of the field and the size of an ISD) - count in the damaged systems from the Ion Cannon on Hoth and you see how this hardly makes ISDs weak.

Oh, and you appear to be half-blind as well as stupid - not only are those NOT "fragmenting asteroids", but it also IS an S-canon source, as per your own admission, so it is easily overruled by several mountain ranges worth of higher canonic evidence.

And just that you do not forget:
You still owe Thanas a couple of answers - so get on it, bootlicker.
SoS:NBA GALE Force
"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Oskuro »

It keeps the video clean. From my point of view, it's a fact that the krenim would win.
For the love of Doug, you're an imbecilic waste of semen. If you are so sure, why even bother posting here? You're clearly an ignorant twat who has plugged his fingers in his ears so hard he's getting earwax on his sleeves. You don't want to discuss, you don't want to be rational, you just want to win.

And know what's hilarious? That you take it personally. Ooooh, I take offense at people reasoning that SW's Empire tech is stronger than ST's Federation! Ouch, my self esteem is hurt beyond repair! My whole existance depends on proving them wrong!

You and those like you are not only an insult to reason and logic, but to Star Trek and fiction in general. You're no different to a hooligan that would kill for their soccer team, or to a Sarah Palin republitard supporter, you're nothing but an insignificant mouthbreather that needs to latch on to a winning team to feel his existance is justified and so needs not cry himself to sleep each night. I weep for the massive dissapointment you must be to your relatives.


Anyway, I didn't want to join the dogpile, and besides, my points have been made and you've failed to fix your broken record, so I'm bowing out of this. Allow me, though, to join the choir:

Answer to Thanas, or concede.
unsigned
User avatar
Darth Lucifer
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1685
Joined: 2004-10-14 04:18am
Location: In pursuit of the Colonial Fleet

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Darth Lucifer »

marsh8472 wrote:I would ask the people here to avoid the subject matter of the borg in their replies.
I mentioned that incident with Shelby as a specific rebuttal to your notion that Dialogue > Visuals, nothing more.
User avatar
nightmare
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1539
Joined: 2002-07-26 11:07am
Location: Here. Sometimes there.

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by nightmare »

marsh8472 wrote:DS9 episode "Paradise"
KIRA: What are you doing?
DAX: Trying an old rope trick I learned on Earth once.
KIRA: A rope trick.
DAX: A very talented Hopi I knew did things with a rope you wouldn't believe. It's an old West American artform.
KIRA: You're suggesting we try to rope the Rio Grande at warp?
DAX: With a tractor beam.
KIRA: Once we pull it back to impulse, isn't there a risk that the strain will rip both hulls apart?
DAX: If the ship assembly teams back in the yards did their jobs really well, we'll probably make it. If they had an off day, we're going to have a problem. But it's our best shot. Unless, a as ranking officer, you have a better idea.
KIRA: We're within tractor range. Locking on.
(The third try grabs the runabout)
DAX: Engaging impulse engines.
(Everything shakes and rattles until they drop out of warp)
DAX: Remind me to send a thank you note to the assembly teams.
why should it require more energy to stop the Rio Grande when two shuttles are at warp rather than at impulse? Like in episode such as "The Maquis, Part II"
There's no reason whatsoever. On that note, your quote says *nothing* about it taking more energy to stop it at warp than impulse. If anything, Kira suggests there's a risk of dangerous strain "once we pull it back to impulse", which is the opposite of what you claim. Again, kinetic energy calcs are worthless beyond the lightspeed barrier.

marsh8472 wrote:nice try to shift the burden of proof. We already know that star trek ships can do it since they've done it before. You're the one that's make the claim that star wars ships can do it so it's on you to prove it.
You either don't understand what I'm saying, or weasling. It's a fricken tachyon pulse. "inverse" has no meaning at all for a tachyon pulse. Hence, it must be related to the production or release mechanism to make any sense at all. Which means it's irrelevant. Understand? You want to claim it has any meaning relevant to the tachyon pulse, you dig it up.
marsh8472 wrote:not true. Little is known about the unknown region. One race that lives there is the Chiss who are generally non-violent. Another race is the Killiks who are peaceful in nature. The Rakata lived there but became extinct. The only known threat that I can see is a race called the Ssi-ruu imperium but after failed invasions they were driven back into their space and it's not known what happened to them. They tend to be xenophobic and avoid outsiders and were clustered. I doubt they're all over uncharted space in other words. Aside from that there's nothing to suggest there's anything dangerous here.
I gave you a fricken quote mentioning hundreds of dangers. There's plenty of nasty aliens besides those you mentioned that we know of, and as I've already shown, many others exist. Here's some of the known ones. Not to mention, pirates and criminals aren't any less abundant in the UR. Oh and as an aside, your peaceful Killiks started the Swarm War, and the Chiss expands by conquest. Not to mention they really don't like aliens passing through their territory.
Star Trek vs. Star Wars, Extralife style.
User avatar
Rama
Redshirt
Posts: 30
Joined: 2010-01-28 12:24am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by Rama »

marsh8472 wrote:

Image

this is the scene where people think that ateroids are being vaporized by a star destroyers weapons. It was really fragmentation as you can see.
Those aren't fragmented asteroids, they're the aft sections of Imperial Star Destroyers (the visible bridge tower should have been the most obvious clue) being pummeled by asteroids that dwarf the cruisers themselves at over tens of billions of tons. If said asteroids were moving at anywhere near the velocity depicted in the TESB, then they would be unleashing gigatons of KE upon impact.

Just look at the impact in the top left, that asteroid has to at least mass at over 1.350E11 tons based on scaling alone.
marsh8472
Youngling
Posts: 142
Joined: 2010-02-14 07:32am

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by marsh8472 »

LordOskuro wrote:
It keeps the video clean. From my point of view, it's a fact that the krenim would win.
For the love of Doug, you're an imbecilic waste of semen. If you are so sure, why even bother posting here? You're clearly an ignorant twat who has plugged his fingers in his ears so hard he's getting earwax on his sleeves. You don't want to discuss, you don't want to be rational, you just want to win.

And know what's hilarious? That you take it personally. Ooooh, I take offense at people reasoning that SW's Empire tech is stronger than ST's Federation! Ouch, my self esteem is hurt beyond repair! My whole existance depends on proving them wrong!

You and those like you are not only an insult to reason and logic, but to Star Trek and fiction in general. You're no different to a hooligan that would kill for their soccer team, or to a Sarah Palin republitard supporter, you're nothing but an insignificant mouthbreather that needs to latch on to a winning team to feel his existance is justified and so needs not cry himself to sleep each night. I weep for the massive dissapointment you must be to your relatives.


Anyway, I didn't want to join the dogpile, and besides, my points have been made and you've failed to fix your broken record, so I'm bowing out of this. Allow me, though, to join the choir:

Answer to Thanas, or concede.
I just love watching how you deal with a no-win situation of star trek against star wars. I don't take it personally. Usually when someone takes an unrealistic position it's natural to debunk it. Or if you're referring to my insults I'm just responding to your Ad hominem with Ad hominem of my own. I won't let you use that tactic to prove your points to others.
User avatar
SapphireFox
Padawan Learner
Posts: 432
Joined: 2010-02-22 10:49pm
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Contact:

Re: How to destroy all life in the star wars galaxy (easy steps)

Post by SapphireFox »

Rama wrote:
marsh8472 wrote:

Image

this is the scene where people think that ateroids are being vaporized by a star destroyers weapons. It was really fragmentation as you can see.
Those aren't fragmented asteroids, they're the aft sections of Imperial Star Destroyers (the visible bridge tower should have been the most obvious clue) being pummeled by asteroids that dwarf the cruisers themselves at over tens of billions of tons. If said asteroids were moving at anywhere near the velocity depicted in the TESB, then they would be unleashing gigatons of KE upon impact.

Just look at the impact in the top left, that asteroid has to at least mass at over 1.350E11 tons based on scaling alone.
How did you come to that weight calc? It seems a little hard to judge size by this picture. Just curious.
You will see the tears of time.
Locked