I need some debate help

[hunter5]

Okay I was discussing Star Wars vs Star Trek on another forum and brought up the 200 gigaton figures from the ICS. Naturally most of the Trekkies ignored it but, one claimed the 200 gigaton figures were debunked does anyone have any information about that? Thank you for your time.

[Edi]

They need to provide evidence for the debunking claim, which is patently false.

[hunter5]

He sent me here http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWICS.html. I looked it over and the guy seems to be trying to debunk the figures in the figures by using a combination of it isn't cannon and a semi technical analysis of the landing pad scene on Kamino. I am still working on him mostly from stuff I learned by watching you guys on here. Thanks for your help.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Let me guess, Startrek.com?

Considering that they're citing Darkstar's site as evidence should tell you a great deal about their mentality

[Srelex]

I've had similar cases were they simply say 'well, those explosions in the film didn't look gigaton to me!' I've always wondered if there's a straightforward answer to that.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I read on here that when the planet-busting firepower of the DS is scaled down to ISD sizes, it actually works out to be greater than the 200GT figure.

[Batman]

Orders of magnitude greater actually As for 'it didn't look gigaton to me', I give you Star Trek V, where an empty torpedo casing dropped from orbit would have done massively more damage than what we saw Have fun finding a photorp detonation that actually looks KT or up.
Not that I recall MTL leave alone HTL EVER being used against inert objects so what are they judging that from?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Orders of magnitude greater actually As for 'it didn't look gigaton to me', I give you Star Trek V, where an empty torpedo casing dropped from orbit would have done massively more damage than what we saw Have fun finding a photorp detonation that actually looks KT or up.
Not that I recall MTL leave alone HTL EVER being used against inert objects so what are they judging that from?

I did some basic calcs based on the volume of the DS2 compared to an Acclamator and did the same for firepower, I found that the DS has around 100 times more power per unit volume I admit I had to treat the transport as a cube to get the volume, but it's still in the ballpark

[Srelex]

Orders of magnitude greater actually As for 'it didn't look gigaton to me', I give you Star Trek V, where an empty torpedo casing dropped from orbit would have done massively more damage than what we saw Have fun finding a photorp detonation that actually looks KT or up.
Not that I recall MTL leave alone HTL EVER being used against inert objects so what are they judging that from?

I did some basic calcs based on the volume of the DS2 compared to an Acclamator and did the same for firepower, I found that the DS has around 100 times more power per unit volume

Of course, the Trekkies would whine that 'omg they iz different!!!11' and would try and prove that the Death Star power output was one of a kind or some shit along those lines.

[hunter5]

Let me guess, Startrek.com?

Considering that they're citing Darkstar's site as evidence should tell you a great deal about their mentality

Yeah there is a new group over there trying to restart the debates.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Let me guess, Startrek.com?

Considering that they're citing Darkstar's site as evidence should tell you a great deal about their mentality

Yeah there is a new group over there trying to restart the debates.

Daft thing was, it was debates that drew me to that site in the first place. And this one. The trektards never come up with anything new. I'm surprised they haven't used any of the new film yet.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Oh man, this is gold. Some guy is claiming that a few shots of 200GT is enough to destroy a planet!

It kinda does ES look back at the figures I provided for impacts and you'll see that at that level (medium power lasers 200GT) one ship could destroy a planet with several shots.

[Batman]

Well 'destroy' is a pretty vague term and you probably COULD destroy all civilization on an unprotected planet with a reasonably low number of 200GT shots (say a couple hundred or so). Of course, that moron was almost inevitably talking about it being destroyed planetkiller style.
But when has the math completely failing to support their allegations (regardless of wether they actually understood it to begin with) ever bothered those people?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well 'destroy' is a pretty vague term and you probably COULD destroy all civilization on an unprotected planet with a reasonably low number of 200GT shots (say a couple hundred or so). Of course, that moron was almost inevitably talking about it being destroyed planetkiller style.
But when has the math completely failing to support their allegations (regardless of wether they actually understood it to begin with) ever bothered those people?

Clearly it doesn't, as I just debunked their claims using their own evidence against them. When their figures are out by three orders of magnitude, it's not particularly hard

[Srelex]

What other displays of retardation are they showing that we can mock?

[Batman]

Given they use Dorkstar as a reference my bet is on ALL of them.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well seeing that Darkstar himself seems to have entered the field tells you all you need to know

[hunter5]

He really is as bad as you guys say he is

[Batman]

A goodly number of people here are speaking from personal experience where this guy is concerned (myself not included, thank Valen)

[hunter5]

Well this degenerate quickly into a what is or is not canon discussion. Surprisingly Darkstar is being relatively nice. The other guy marshell or whatever is stuck on the ICS numbers are "unrealistic", turbolasers are lasers because they have lasers in their names, and phaser rifles are rifles because they look like rifles .

[EnterpriseSovereign]

This comes in handy,

https://commerce35.pair.com/mrwong/wiki ... er_fallacy

[Batman]

I couldn't care less about the rifle part, that designation has been applied to just about ANY kind of longarm in SciFi practically from the word go (I doubt that blaster rifles technically are rifles any more than phaser rifles are).
So 200GT is 'unrealistic' when simply scaling down from the DS gets you tons more than that but treating weapons that CANNOT possibly lasers as lasers is OK, because of their name. I see they are still true to form

[EnterpriseSovereign]

This just gets better, now this marshall guy is bringing omega into the picture

[Srelex]

This just gets better, now this marshall guy is bringing omega into the picture

Omega? The virus?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

This just gets better, now this marshall guy is bringing omega into the picture

Omega? The virus?

The molecule