A Little Debating Help

[Ted C]

A low power federation phaser (the small hand units as opposed to the larger, more powerful rifle) can blast through 10 feet of solid rock...Bit more impressive than a few inches of metal

He seems to be referring to "Chain of Command", in which Worf used a hand phaser set to maximum to clear a lot of loose rubble blocking a passageway. Not nearly as impressive as he makes it sound. There may be screencaps in the database.

Certainly. In Q-who (next generation) the Borg used transporters that passed straight through the shields of the enterprise. In DS9 episode "the Jem'Hadar" the Dominion had transporters that passed straight through shielding.

Borg drones transported through the shields of the Enterprise in "Q Who". They were unable to do so in any subsequent encounter, needing to drop the ship's shields before any transports took place.

I believe that the shields of the Defiant were down before Jem'Hadar started transporting aboard in "The Jem'Hadar", but it's been ages since I saw it.

You have zero proof of this. We've seen an imperial star destroyer being incapable of destroying the millenium falcon, which is effectively a piece of junk.

The ISD wasn't trying to destroy the Falcon; they were under express orders from Darth Vader to capture the ship, not destroy it.

We've seen areas of ships take direct impacts from turbolasers which have only caused minor explosions in hanger decks etc.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Shields don't work on weapons that phase out of space/time because the weapons don't exist on the same plane of existence as the shields until they rematerialse at their target. It's not difficult to grasp.

There is no indication that phasers "phase out of space time" or exist in an alternate plane of existence. This is major ass-pull stuff.

Again, you have no evidence for what it is about species 8472 weapons that makes the Borg succeptible to them. It may have nothing to do with magnitude(of firepower is what he is refering to). Even if it does, it's quite clear that the magnitude of their weapons far outstrips anything the SW universe has and so they would win on their own.

If S8472 is defeating the Borg with technobabble instead of firepower, then they're even more pathetic. Trek defenses are circumvented by technobabble all the time (Breen weapons, Dominion phased polaron beams, frequency-matched weapons, etc.), but Star Wars shields perform consistently against all attacks.

Raw power is completely ineffective against ablative armour.

That's an utterly absurd notion. By definition, ablative armor gets degraded with every single hit.

[doan_m]

There is no indication that phasers "phase out of space time" or exist in an alternate plane of existence. This is major ass-pull stuff.

Yeah i think hes referring to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_we ... _torpedoes

Thanks for the help so far btw.

[Perseid]

You seem to be doing well enough in agrueing your corner, however their stupidity will always overwhelm logical reasoning.
Now to contribute, the weapons that they keep talking about are not much of a problem in ST, let alone in SW.
For instance the Chroniton Torpedo (Krenium Imperium) was a threat to Voyager in the early parts of the episode, however once they put up a Temporal shield they were completly ineffective. I forget the specifics but it's stated somewhere that SW ships have a temporal field to prevent time dilation whilst in hyperspace or something, I'm sure someone posted the info in the SW section of the boards a few years ago.
Phasers have 2 different explanations in tech manuals and various in show explanations to such an extent that we get this:

Phasers fire nadion particle beams (VOY: "Time and Again")

from the Memory Alpha article on phasers.

If you want more info on the weapons that go here. At least then they won't be able to say the information is biased

Good luck and happy debating

[Ted C]

There is no indication that phasers "phase out of space time" or exist in an alternate plane of existence. This is major ass-pull stuff.

Yeah i think hes referring to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_we ... _torpedoes

He's pulling stuff out of a video game?

[Batman]

He might be referring to the transphasic torpedoes from VOY's Endgame, which of course are NEVER explained to to that (or explained in any other way at that, they can SOMEHOW go through Borg defenses and that's it). Also, if phased matter/energy DOESN'T interact with unphased matter/energy AT ALL, how come Ro and Geordi were still able to see and hear and DIDN'T asphyxiate in 'The Next Phase'?
So even if the Federation HAD phased weapons (for which there is exactly no evidence) chances are the vastly more powerful defenses of Star Wars ships still would interfere with them.
As for the Borg beaming through shields that would be hogwash even if they still could after Q Who (which apparently isn't the case) because all shields aren't created equal. Nevermind the fact that Wars shields don't seem to work with Trek frequency shenanigans, they're several orders of magnitude tougher. Showing evidence the Borg can beam through different technology TT/PT shields when after Q Who they couldn't through UFP MT level ones is up to your opponent.
Phasers vs rock-NDF. This has been done to death. A pity Star Wars ships are neither armoured nor shielded with rock.

[Azron_Stoma]

so that's 3 different Trek torpedoes that bypass shields by 3 Seperate methods, none of which are actually fully canon

Phased Plasma Torpedo:
method: uses a pegasus cloak system to pass through the target.
Defense: intense Anyon Field added to the shield layer(preferably the outermost) Imperial power Generaton could make a field that would dephase any such torpedo, splashing against the shields as normal.

Hellfire Torpedoes
Method: scans the target ship's frequency somehow (which brings up all sorts of questions as to how and
why the method can't be applied to regular ship scanners )
Defense: Imperial shields already function on a principle that precludes this trick from working.

Transphasic Torpedoes
Method: unknown, most unofficial sources claim that they phase in between real space and subspace or use identical methods as the PPT.
Defense: either the Anyon shield layer or an integrated Subspace transceiver into the Shield Projectors to extend the shields into subspace, though doing so on a regular basis (or if an enemy tries to use both subspace weapons and transphasics at once) may make it so the subspace based weapons can affect the shields, it is unlikely that any such weapons would be powerful enough to damage an Imperial ship or activate fast enough (if that subspace tear from Insurection was any indication).

[Batman]

Why bother figuring out defenses against weapons the Feds canonically don't have?
Also, note that bog-standard Star Wars shields ALREADY heavily interfere with subspace phenomena (Han commenting on how raising shields significantly cuts Star Destroyer subspace communication ranges in TTT, either in HTTE or DFR).