Imperials Creating Hybrid Imperial/Federation ships

[Admiral Felire]

I was wondering would it be possible, using Imperial technical expertise, and captured Federation warp drives to outfit Imperial starships with Warp Drives.

I ask because I have the idea that if Imperials were in the Star Trek Galaxy but did not want to have their tech known as existing, they might outfit various shuttles, transports and other ship small ships to have warp drives. That way, they can have these more visible ships warp into a (say) a Federation system so as to not have anybody in the system get a clue at the alien and unique nature of the new arrivals. When they exit the system, they warp away, travel for a little while, before entering real space and either activating their hyperdrives or (if they cannot have both on one ship) get picked up by a larger Imperial ship.

In addition to the question of whether you think its feasibly possible, I was also wondering how long do you think after an Imperial Star Destroyer arrives in the Milky Way that they could begin outfitting such hybrid craft. This would include the thought of the Imperials capturing dozens of interstellar warp-capable shuttlecraft, space transports, and small starships during the duration of their research attempt.

Again, thanks for your thoughts on this matter.

[The Romulan Republic]

I was wondering would it be possible, using Imperial technical expertise, and captured Federation warp drives to outfit Imperial starships with Warp Drives.

No doubt been asked before, but I can't recall exactly when. In any case, the obvious answer is "why would they, since Hyperdrive is obviously superior?" Actually I'll qualify that and say strategically superior, as I've seen it argued that warp drives are tactically more flexible (no comment on this).

I ask because I have the idea that if Imperials were in the Star Trek Galaxy but did not want to have their tech known as existing, they might outfit various shuttles, transports and other ship small ships to have warp drives.

Why would they want to keep their power hidden? Intimidation is an effective tool.

That way, they can have these more visible ships warp into a (say) a Federation system so as to not have anybody in the system get a clue at the alien and unique nature of the new arrivals. When they exit the system, they warp away, travel for a little while, before entering real space and either activating their hyperdrives or (if they cannot have both on one ship) get picked up by a larger Imperial ship.

Might be good for covert spying, but this still presupposes that they want to keep their tech hidden. Seems like a lot of trouble to retrofit their ships when they can just spam probe droids, arrive in unopposable force, or use the captured ships themselves for recon rather the swapping the warp drives onto Imperial vessels.

In addition to the question of whether you think its feasibly possible, I was also wondering how long do you think after an Imperial Star Destroyer arrives in the Milky Way that they could begin outfitting such hybrid craft. This would include the thought of the Imperials capturing dozens of interstellar warp-capable shuttlecraft, space transports, and small starships during the duration of their research attempt.

I don't see how we can answer how long it would take; I'm not even going to try.

[Admiral Felire]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

But yeah, I am thinking that the Imperials want to keep their power hidden because they, at this time, is one Star Destroyer alone in the galaxy. And yes, I no cliche, but its what I am creatively thinking about.

Anyway, they are not at the point in their plots and plans and capabilities to make themselves known. They occasionally raid planets for both resources and to keep their forces in fighting shape, and they do not want any linkage between their secret raidings and the new traders that are starting to crop up through various regions. So I was thinking that they produce various transport cargo shuttles, out fit them with warp engines and arrive in trading ports, colonial systems, and say "hey want to trade." And while some of their tech will be different (advanced from Star Trek levels, old and slow from Star Wars perspective) I do not want them to have a clearly unique and 'oh my lord' FTL system.

I hope that this helps in clarifying what I mean with my question.

As to the final part, the one you are not touching, I am trying to figure out how much in-story time I should let pass before I let these warp capable Imperial starships become available and easily enough produced that the Empire could build dozens to hundreds of them (in small sizes).

[The Romulan Republic]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

But yeah, I am thinking that the Imperials want to keep their power hidden because they, at this time, is one Star Destroyer alone in the galaxy. And yes, I no cliche, but its what I am creatively thinking about.

In which case you should have stated that such was the premise up front. As it was, I was basing my reply off of the OP, which merely specified an Imperial presence but gave no information on its exact size or power.

In that case, I can see that they might want to keep a low profile, but there are still plenty of reasons to advertise there technological power. Intimidation, showing that they have a lot to bargain with, etc. And with only one ISD, they won't exactly have limitless resources to spend on retrofitting ships. If I was in command of a lone ISD in a strange Galaxy, I'd be doing everything I could to conserve supplies.

And again, why not capture a few Trek ships and just use them? No refitting required.

As to the final part, the one you are not touching, I am trying to figure out how much in-story time I should let pass before I let these warp capable Imperial starships become available and easily enough produced that the Empire could build dozens to hundreds of them (in small sizes).

Not sure how one can answer that. We have no idea if the techs are even compatible at all, do we?

Of course, if there is somehow a way to answer this question I will gladly retract the above.

[Admiral Felire]

Yeah, your capturing Trek ships. I figure that they capture at least one (at a minimum) of every ship of the main Alpha and Beta quadrant powers. I am not talking warships, but rather interstellar transports of civilian levels. They would gather data, starmaps and various resources.

I also have them raiding a resource rich but not-core world of many of the main powers (Klingon, Cardassian, Romulan, etc). This is both for the resources gained as well as morale building and providing for the maintainence of skill and capability.

I also have them colonziing a solar system and establishing a main base as well as a secondary solar system for mining purposes (not all eggs in one basket), as well as a nebula/black hole cluster for various specialized processes. In other words, given time they can get resources and build up.

At some point, the policy of the Captain is to get a presence in the galaxy that is far larger than the Imperials actual size should suggest. This would be in terms of trading, mostly old and dilapidated Star Wars technology. Anyway, the fact would be that to do this the Imperials would have to either build various transport ships or use the captured ships, which is completely an option. And might work a little easier to be honest in terms of not having to provide necessary resources to construct new ships.

This might, of course, lead to another question. Could the Imperials add a bootstrap Hyperdrive to a captured Startrek starships. The use of this system would be to allow the newly captured ships to be able to quickly travel around the galaxy without using the slow nature of Fed warp ships.

Again, on the second question, it pretty much comes to the idea if I h ave the trade phase start say five years after Arrival, would it seem out of place. Or, even quicker, one year or two years after Arrival. I know it would be a story, but I did want some feasibility, at least a little bit.

Anyway, thank you The Romulan Republic, I appreciate you input, suggesstions, thoughts and advice. They are quite helpful.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, your capturing Trek ships. I figure that they capture at least one (at a minimum) of every ship of the main Alpha and Beta quadrant powers. I am not talking warships, but rather interstellar transports of civilian levels. They would gather data, starmaps and various resources.

Sounds reasonable.

I also have them raiding a resource rich but not-core world of many of the main powers (Klingon, Cardassian, Romulan, etc). This is both for the resources gained as well as morale building and providing for the maintainence of skill and capability.

Such a raid would defeat the purpose of the warp equipped ships, would it not, as such a raid would doubtlessly require that they give away their technological superiority.

I also have them colonziing a solar system and establishing a main base as well as a secondary solar system for mining purposes (not all eggs in one basket), as well as a nebula/black hole cluster for various specialized processes. In other words, given time they can get resources and build up.

One problem: do they have a source of fuel for the ISD? How long before that ship runs out of fuel?

At some point, the policy of the Captain is to get a presence in the galaxy that is far larger than the Imperials actual size should suggest. This would be in terms of trading, mostly old and dilapidated Star Wars technology. Anyway, the fact would be that to do this the Imperials would have to either build various transport ships or use the captured ships, which is completely an option. And might work a little easier to be honest in terms of not having to provide necessary resources to construct new ships.

Much more logical just to use the captured ships. Costs less of the ISD's limited resources than taking out the warp drive and somehow attaching it to a Wars ship?

This might, of course, lead to another question. Could the Imperials add a bootstrap Hyperdrive to a captured Startrek starships. The use of this system would be to allow the newly captured ships to be able to quickly travel around the galaxy without using the slow nature of Fed warp ships.

I really, really doubt they could do this. I'm not an expert vs debater in the slightest, and there are no doubt people who could answer this much better, but I would guess that power requirements alone would be a huge barrier. Unless they strapped a reactor on with the hyperdrive, but that still presumes that the different technologies are at all compatible. Given the vast differences, I wouldn't count on it.

If you want to upgrade Trek ships, better to stick to things that don't require power consumption beyond what a Trek ship could provide. Two suggestions I've heard in the past would be Star Wars armor and torpedo launchers, though even then I wouldn't count on it.

Again, on the second question, it pretty much comes to the idea if I h ave the trade phase start say five years after Arrival, would it seem out of place. Or, even quicker, one year or two years after Arrival. I know it would be a story, but I did want some feasibility, at least a little bit.

Anyway, thank you The Romulan Republic, I appreciate you input, suggesstions, thoughts and advice. They are quite helpful.

It sounds like you're planning to use this for a fanfic? Is that in fact the case?

[Admiral Felire]

Such a raid would defeat the purpose of the warp equipped ships, would it not, as such a raid would doubtlessly require that they give away their technological superiority.

The raid is actually done by the Star Destroyer and its distinct Imperial craft. There would be a lot of jamming, as well as making sure as much data as possible was blocked from getting out - through observation satellites, etc. The raids would be quick, all forces would be in armor, and maximum stealth would apply. As well as making it so months would pass between raids and huge distances would exist in chosen worlds. But yeah, the worlds that are attacked will know of the superiority of the unknown alien force.

One problem: do they have a source of fuel for the ISD? How long before that ship runs out of fuel?

Besides the multi-year storage capability of a Star Destroyer, I figured that they would be able to extract Hypermatter from a black hole using a smallish starbase constructed using prefabricated parts. As well as the extraction and refining of Tibana gas from a gas giant or a nebula. They would have months if not years to establish these facilities before they run out of stores. And before that time comes they get the captured resources of alien worlds, which probably would provide boosts to the Imperial stores.

Much more logical just to use the captured ships. Costs less of the ISD's limited resources than taking out the warp drive and somehow attaching it to a Wars ship?

Yeah that sounds like it could work. It could also make it interesting to see what happens as the crews of these ships try to make it more Imperial in feel while also learning about the tech and how it operates. That could be interesting, very interesting.

I really, really doubt they could do this. I'm not an expert vs debater in the slightest, and there are no doubt people who could answer this much better, but I would guess that power requirements alone would be a huge barrier. Unless they strapped a reactor on with the hyperdrive, but that still presumes that the different technologies are at all compatible. Given the vast differences, I wouldn't count on it.

If you want to upgrade Trek ships, better to stick to things that don't require power consumption beyond what a Trek ship could provide. Two suggestions I've heard in the past would be Star Wars armor and torpedo launchers, though even then I wouldn't count on it.

See, I too am not sure on the feasibility of this sort of thing. That said, I could have sworn I have read of Star Wars forces slapping on hyperdrive packs/sleds onto other ships to provide them with the necessary capability for emergency and small time jumps. At least enough to get back to home base from the emergency location or where the disaster occurred. Which is why I think it might be possible, though, like I said, I am not sure if it is something that is possible given the resources of the single Imperial unit.

I think that besides some changes to the captured Star Trek ship in an appearance aesthetic sense, to make them more match Imperial ideology, too much editing will not go on. Especially, because if the ship is ever captured or identified by the native forces it would lead them to the discovery and capture of advanced Imperial tech.

It sounds like you're planning to use this for a fanfic? Is that in fact the case?

Yes an no. What I am doing is coming up with a setting idea, basic timeline of events for a story idea. As to actually turning it into a story, I am not sure my ability as a writer - which lies in more description and setting than it does story - actually suffices. That said, the idea of a lone Imperial ship trying to survive in the Star Wars galaxy and bring about a new type of rule and society through various means beyond conquest (such as trade and political revolutions to a more aligned philosophy) is interesting to me.

[Ghost Rider]

Where are they getting the manufacturing base? Unless the single star destroyer somehow has...a factory or three, this becomes slight problem because for some fucking reason people think a devoted warship has shipyard abilities hidden under the hood. And please don't bring up the fact it can create tools to repair itself. You're talking about it not only manufacturing ST tech, but modifiying their own technology to interact with a foriegn technology. It's fucking asinine the sheer leap of engineering debacles it would take to achieve this.

[Coalition]

Admiral Felire - if you email me, I'll send you a copy of Michael January's ISD - Eliminator story. The story is basically a similar situation to what you are proposing above. It is a straight text file, 164k in size.

(Or if anyone else wants a copy)

[Darth Ruinus]

I was wondering would it be possible, using Imperial technical expertise, and captured Federation warp drives to outfit Imperial starships with Warp Drives.

Would Federation reactors even be able to supply the energy necessary to activate hyperdrive? I ask because I know that Federation starships wouldn't be able to field turbolasers/ion cannons/shields from the Galactic Empire and hope to get the same results, but does this also apply to the hyperdrive?

[Ghost Rider]

I was wondering would it be possible, using Imperial technical expertise, and captured Federation warp drives to outfit Imperial starships with Warp Drives.

Would Federation reactors even be able to supply the energy necessary to activate hyperdrive? I ask because I know that Federation starships wouldn't be able to field turbolasers/ion cannons/shields from the Galactic Empire and hope to get the same results, but does this also apply to the hyperdrive?

Enough power and you can do any of it, the problem being size, resources and whole other logical reasons that come into play why fuels are different even for us, let alone an intergalactic society.

Think about what has been mentioned of hyperdrives, a few examples of math Dr. Saxton and Mike have given in calculations and realize it would be an absolutely massive ship for one purpose and would be useless for much else.

[Admiral Felire]

Where are they getting the manufacturing base? Unless the single star destroyer somehow has...a factory or three, this becomes slight problem because for some fucking reason people think a devoted warship has shipyard abilities hidden under the hood. And please don't bring up the fact it can create tools to repair itself. You're talking about it not only manufacturing ST tech, but modifiying their own technology to interact with a foriegn technology. It's fucking asinine the sheer leap of engineering debacles it would take to achieve this.

Well, yes, from what I have read it does seem that Star Destroyers have internal processing capabilities that make them quite self-sufficient. And I figure that after some basic retooling these self-repair systems could be used to provide manufacturing capability for greater things. Including various modular components, starfighters and the like.

On the issue of placing warp drives on Imperial build ships, power output would be Imperial level, so probably more than enough to handle Federation tech. And since the majority of the ships would be tried and true designs they would not be rare or unique vessels.

Furthermore, after some conversation, I agreed that it might be easier to modify the appearance of a captured Trek ship and then bootstrap an Imperial hyperdrive on. I say this because from various stories and such things set in the Star Wars universe Imperial hyperdrives are capable of being miniaturized to a great degree. In addition, their exist emergency hyperdrives and such things that can let even some ships that do not naturally have hyperdrives the capability of having it for various missions.

++

Coalition, while I thank you for the offer, I have read the story Eliminator by Michael January as posted on the Alt-Startrek Vs. Starwars fanfiction site. And yes, in a way, I am taking some basic ideas though done in different ways (cause, really, much of the ideas for this sort of story has been done before in varying degrees).

I did wonder though if you know anything about him continuing the story with a Part 2. I know its been almost a decade since he wrote the story, but I figure it never hurts to ask.

Would Federation reactors even be able to supply the energy necessary to activate hyperdrive? I ask because I know that Federation starships wouldn't be able to field turbolasers/ion cannons/shields from the Galactic Empire and hope to get the same results, but does this also apply to the hyperdrive?

Personally, I would have thought that if you had a hyperdrive system that was designed to be added to regular ships that might not normally be capable of using hyperdrive, the unit would provide its own power. This is Star Wars, where society is ancient, I cannot see them unable to miniaturize a power plant to th e point where it can be integrated into the hyperdrive. But this is just my thought.

[skies]

I was wondering would it be possible, using Imperial technical expertise, and captured Federation warp drives to outfit Imperial starships with Warp Drives.

The Long Patrol Act I (http://www.daltonator.net/fanfics/stori ... atrol1.txt) by Marina O'Leary covers the situation pretty well. Basically a SW vs ST version of Das Boot.

[Ghost Rider]

Locking.

Why one may ask?

We are assuming that the ISD has some massive R&D to change it internal machine shops into...shipyards to produce the fuel AND the parts for a completely alien technology. If you want to use this in fanfic, go ahead. So far most the answer point towards fanfics as trying for sources.

To ask ebyond that is stupid, plain and simple. This is the same as asking a Aircraft carrier today to outfit the French in WW2 with nuclear engines. If you don't know the answer, you're dumber then my fucking cat.