You won't believe this...

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Post by Typhonis 1 »

Surprised the Breen didn't try droping rock on the Earth. Enterprise was bound to share the little extend the warp field trick and well....
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Re: You won't believe this...

Post by ExarKun »

clone1051 wrote:A while ago, I was talking to a certain friend of mine, who is somewhat into both Trek and Wars. I was explaining to him how much more powerful SW ships were, when he interrupted to tell me, "Yeah, but SW ships are more powerful because the Federation is peaceful and doesn't need powerful weapons" or something to that effect. :shock: I was so amazed by his stupidity and refusal to acknowledge my point that I abandoned that part of the argument shortly after. I then explained SW's speed advantage with hyperdrive. He told me that no, warp drive is faster. I attempted to continue arguing both points for a little while longer, but his Wall of Ignorance was so strong that I ended up giving up and directing him to this site. :banghead: After reading through it (which I did not expect him to do), his Wall of Ignorance was, surprisingly, broken, and he has come to the correct conclusion that the Empire would, in fact, beat the Federation.

I'm not sure which part is more unbelievable, his stupidity or that someone that stupid could manage to come around to our side.
I think what's sad is that you're calling your friend stupid, not only that, but he might come back to the site and see it, and you might lose a friend in real life because of an issue in fake universe.

He clearly didn't see all the evidence, wasn't challenged to think it through, that doesn't make him stupid.
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Re: You won't believe this...

Post by Ghost Rider »

ExarKun wrote:
clone1051 wrote:A while ago, I was talking to a certain friend of mine, who is somewhat into both Trek and Wars. I was explaining to him how much more powerful SW ships were, when he interrupted to tell me, "Yeah, but SW ships are more powerful because the Federation is peaceful and doesn't need powerful weapons" or something to that effect. :shock: I was so amazed by his stupidity and refusal to acknowledge my point that I abandoned that part of the argument shortly after. I then explained SW's speed advantage with hyperdrive. He told me that no, warp drive is faster. I attempted to continue arguing both points for a little while longer, but his Wall of Ignorance was so strong that I ended up giving up and directing him to this site. :banghead: After reading through it (which I did not expect him to do), his Wall of Ignorance was, surprisingly, broken, and he has come to the correct conclusion that the Empire would, in fact, beat the Federation.

I'm not sure which part is more unbelievable, his stupidity or that someone that stupid could manage to come around to our side.
I think what's sad is that you're calling your friend stupid, not only that, but he might come back to the site and see it, and you might lose a friend in real life because of an issue in fake universe.

He clearly didn't see all the evidence, wasn't challenged to think it through, that doesn't make him stupid.
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Re: You won't believe this...

Post by Darth Ruinus »

ExarKun wrote:
I think what's sad is that you're calling your friend stupid, not only that, but he might come back to the site and see it, and you might lose a friend in real life because of an issue in fake universe.

He clearly didn't see all the evidence, wasn't challenged to think it through, that doesn't make him stupid.
Well, depends. Friends can call each other stupid all the time, and not be bothered by it.
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Post by harbringer »

I have a friend who still disagrees and thinks ST would win, I dont agree with him and have told him his arguments amount to pulling straws from his ass. Of course our friendships is about things other than this debate which would be why I can call him a friend.

My favourites this week :

kirk would win as he would end up in command of the star destroyer (I pointed out some of the 1600 stormtroopers might not go over to seize the enterprise - and may not like kirk on their ship).

Sevens "assets" would distract darth vader and he would over shoot the alpha quadrant.

Klingons are bad ass in close combat because you would have to be stupid to do it and thus no one will expect it.
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Post by Aratech »

I think you need to add a zero to the end of that storm trooper number. Don't they have close to 10,000 of those guys onboard at any one time?
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Post by Darth Servo »

harbringer wrote:kirk would win as he would end up in command of the star destroyer (I pointed out some of the 1600 stormtroopers might not go over to seize the enterprise - and may not like kirk on their ship).
What is it with trektards that they think capturing ONE ISD will change anythihng?
Sevens "assets" would distract darth vader and he would over shoot the alpha quadrant.
Not Vader's type. He goes for more petite women. Padme didn't have anything close to Seven's "assets".
Klingons are bad ass in close combat because you would have to be stupid to do it and thus no one will expect it.
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Post by Darth Wong »

I wonder if that person also leads with his king in chess. After all, it's a short-ranged unit, and nobody would expect it!
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Post by Darth Onasi »

harbringer wrote:kirk would win as he would end up in command of the star destroyer (I pointed out some of the 1600 stormtroopers might not go over to seize the enterprise - and may not like kirk on their ship).
I find myself wondering if there are people who actually think Kirk is a one man army.
Ripped shirt kirk fu is powerful, but it can't dodge blasters. At least not more than 10,000 of them.
Sevens "assets" would distract darth vader and he would over shoot the alpha quadrant.
I would think Vader's genitals were severly burned if not outright destroyed and so any hint of arousal would just bring more pain and want to kill things anyway.

"Naked.. female.. urgh!!! I was going to leave at least half of Earth intact, but now I'm just pissed off. Turn that planet into an asteroid field then blow up the asteroids!"
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Post by Darth Ruinus »

Darth Onasi wrote:
"Naked.. female.. urgh!!! I was going to leave at least half of Earth intact, but now I'm just pissed off. Turn that planet into an asteroid field then blow up the asteroids!"
"And then bomb the empty space that the asteroids leave!"

That, is quite amusing and disgusting at the same time.
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Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Sidewinder wrote:
TithonusSyndrome wrote:This is nothing. One Trektard I debated suggested the Empire would crumble and grind to a halt in the Alpha Quadrant because, and I shit you not, she said this, "Darth Vader is emo". Read it again if you have to.
Last time I checked, emo people did NOT personally enter battles against multiple opponents (see Vader PWNing multiple Jedi in the last issue of the 'Clone Wars' comics), did NOT pilot fighters into battle against multiple enemy aerospacecraft, and did NOT casually kill people who pissed them off. If anything, it could be argued that Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer were emo, considering how many times they preached to various peoples, "You're wrong, we're right," in 'Star Trek'.
Vader's "NOOOOO" bellow, which if I understand correctly was the incident she cited as proof of Vader being emo, is definitely not restricted from Star Trek. Seems to me Picard had a little fit of his own during First Contact when Lily tried to talk sense into him, and Riker too when he was being detained under the guise of murder and insanity.
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Post by Lord Revan »

and if Vader gets emotianal after being lifted up from a lava river (well close enough to one) and while probably being under pain from both the burns and the efforts to save his and being told that pretty everything he fought for was for nothing, I'd hardy call it emo.
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Post by Sidewinder »

Lord Revan wrote:and if Vader gets emotianal after being lifted up from a lava river (well close enough to one) and while probably being under pain from both the burns and the efforts to save his and being told that pretty everything he fought for was for nothing, I'd hardy call it emo.
That makes me wonder what would happen if you took one of the 'Star Trek' captains (Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Archer, take your pick), enslaved him/her for 10 years, tortured his/her mother to death, shocked him/her with high voltage electricity, forced him/her to choose between saving a loved one or supporting the Federation's principles, amputated all of his/her limbs WITHOUT anesthesia, lit him/her on fire, and then said, "Your [insert loved one here] is dead, despite your best efforts to save [insert "him" or "her," as appropriate]." Do you think any one of them would be more mentally stable than Vader?
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Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Kirk might actually come out an interesting character as a result of that.

Picard, we already saw that in (ugh) Nemesis.

Sisko, I couldn't honestly imagine his character being anything other than aloof and unmoving at all times, I couldn't picture what that kind of life would do to him. Maybe make him a withdrawn serial killer a la John Wayne Gacy.

Janeway and Archer - I'd take more interest in seeing the torture and immolation than the result, by far. :twisted:
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Post by PeZook »

You forgot they find out at the end that they killed their loved one at the end.
Klingons are bad ass in close combat because you would have to be stupid to do it and thus no one will expect it.
This...this...

This is brilliant!

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They'll never see it coming! It'll be glorious!
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Post by Darth Onasi »

Well by their logic, Picard was being emo for breaking down and crying after his assimilation by the Borg in "Family"

As for Klingons, I'd pay good money to see a band of Klingons charge a tank, or machine gun nest with their oversized toothpicks.
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Post by harbringer »

Well I didnt say the arguments were great just that he made them.

[quote=Darth Wong]I wonder if that person also leads with his king in chess. After all, it's a short-ranged unit, and nobody would expect it![/quote]

I shall play him if you really want to know but I'm guessing this was rhetorical ;)

[quote=Aratech]I think you need to add a zero to the end of that storm trooper number. Don't they have close to 10,000 of those guys onboard at any one time?[/quote]

It didn't really matter as the argument was that kirk would convince all the crew and passengers aboard the ISD to board the enterprise then blow it up....

[quote=PeZook]I shall become President and order the entire Polish army to train hard for hand to hand. We'll be badass at close combat and then declare war on the world and when all the world's armies are waiting with their tanks and airplanes nad machine guns and nukes, we'll charge at them with knives!

They'll never see it coming! It'll be glorious![/quote]

Well this argument was better than "data is a better droid becuase he had sex and R2D2 hasn't" and who knows he might be right if everyone fell over laghing chocked on puke and died....not remotely possible but hey :) I did say he pulled them out of his ass. Besides he is more amusing than the usual idiots we get visiting us :)
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Post by harbringer »

stuffed the quotes up if a mod sees this and feels charitable :) can you fix them and then delete this post please :)
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Post by phred »

Im not sure its outright stupidity on your friend's part. It might just be stubbornness

I know I occasionally argue a losing point into the ground just to piss off the person Im arguing with. I have a friend that makes outrageous claims on a regular basis for the exact same reason.
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Post by Swindle1984 »

TithonusSyndrome wrote:Kirk might actually come out an interesting character as a result of that.
To be fair, Kirk has been tortured before, split into diametrically opposed beings, had his ship blown up by his own hands and his son killed. Oh, and his best friend died too, but they found the reset button for that one.
Picard, we already saw that in (ugh) Nemesis.
Ah yes, Picard. Assimilated by the Borg, captured and tortured on at least one occasion, lost his entire family in an accident, had his ship blown up TWICE, got his best friend killed on an away mission, and was bitter about never marrying. For all his flaws, I'd say Picard turned out fairly well, considering.
Sisko, I couldn't honestly imagine his character being anything other than aloof and unmoving at all times, I couldn't picture what that kind of life would do to him. Maybe make him a withdrawn serial killer a la John Wayne Gacy.
Sisko's wife died because of the Borg (if I recall correctly), and he DID end up committing murder at one point. Despite his speeches about ethics, and guilt, and war, he never seemed overly emotional about anything. He was probably border-line sociopathic.
Janeway and Archer - I'd take more interest in seeing the torture and immolation than the result, by far. :twisted:
Oh, indeed. :twisted: Considering Archer was mentally unbalanced to begin with and Janeway was a mass-murdering egotistical psycho, I'd say going through the kind of trauma Vader went through would REALLY send them both around the bend.
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Post by Darth Onasi »

Swindle1984 wrote:Ah yes, Picard. Assimilated by the Borg, captured and tortured on at least one occasion, lost his entire family in an accident, had his ship blown up TWICE, got his best friend killed on an away mission, and was bitter about never marrying. For all his flaws, I'd say Picard turned out fairly well, considering.
Personally I think he went completely nuts around the time of Insurrection, thus explaining his behaviour there..
Sisko's wife died because of the Borg (if I recall correctly), and he DID end up committing murder at one point. Despite his speeches about ethics, and guilt, and war, he never seemed overly emotional about anything. He was probably border-line sociopathic.
More like Sisko's wife died due to Starfleet's overwhelming stupidity, apparently somebody thought having an officer take their wife and child into a warzone causing him to abandon his post to look for them was a good idea. I presume he shifted all blame onto Picard to alleviate his own guilt for taking his goddamn civilian family with him to die.

As for the murder, do you mean the Romulan senator from "In the Pale Moonlight"? Sisko didn't have a direct hand in that, and while he might have subconciously thought Garak would do him in if his plan didn't work it wasn't his desire to kill him, and he was only doing it to win a war anyway.
Oh, indeed. :twisted: Considering Archer was mentally unbalanced to begin with and Janeway was a mass-murdering egotistical psycho, I'd say going through the kind of trauma Vader went through would REALLY send them both around the bend.
I don't know, Janeway seems to be the spoiled brat of Starfleet, daughter of an Admiral who knew how to use that clout, on friendly terms with the admiralty, always used to getting her way.
Some doses of Anakin level trauma might just set her straight.

As for Archer.. well, he's hopeless.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Everyone keeps talking about Archer as if he's a real character. From what I've seen of Enterprise, he's not a character at all. He's just a plot device, with an opaque characterization that makes it impossible to identify with him on any level or even categorize him as any sort of personality type you know.
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Post by TithonusSyndrome »

From what I've seen of DS9, which is admittedly little, I would have to say much the same about Sisko. Avery Scott seemed like he didn't know what kind of character he was supposed to be playing and left me with a blank slate of a person at the end of every episode.
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Post by Themightytom »

Darth Wong wrote:Everyone keeps talking about Archer as if he's a real character. From what I've seen of Enterprise, he's not a character at all. He's just a plot device, with an opaque characterization that makes it impossible to identify with him on any level or even categorize him as any sort of personality type you know.
Then I'm NOT CRAZY! I always thought he had about as much consistency to his character as the transporter! I always told myself, "MightyTom, no, he's supposed to be a person, he is depicted as having a history, and experiences which motivate his behaviors, if you watch a little more nthan the PTSD trigger event will be showcased in an episode or two, the pattern will become clear. If that doesn't happen it will be revealed that his entire ancestral line is tag team quantum leaping and he acts like a different person every scene because he's posessed by a different person in each scene."


I have a lot of long dialogues with myself, I really should get it checked out... or I could mainstream it and start writing a blog.

With Star trek, there is a tendency to disregard the incconsistent. If that schema is transferred to star wars then i suppose Vader does seem Emo. he dresses in black, he has asthma like a sissy and he kills people by pointing his finger instead of whipping out a batleth and maybe throwing in a judo chop and a double handed strike to the back of the neck.

You can forget what he's been through and that those tragedies in his life shaped his character. Lucas tried to combine theater and eye candy in a way taht is lost when viewed through the eyes of star trek because in star trek the deepest you get is Picard yelling there are FIVE lights shortly before he is returned to command of a starship full of people having suffered no ill effects from his torture.

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Post by NecronLord »

Nah. The deepest you get is Kirk's understated hatred of Klingons for their murder of his son, and perhaps some guilt for his not being there. Or Spock's wonderful preformance in The Naked Time of his guilt over never having told his mother he loves her. Of course, that's old trek, and a lot of trektards seem not to like that...
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