tjhairball's big education bluff - LOL

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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-11-30 09:54pm

tjhairball wrote:At the time of my last posts here, I had completed the first three years of study of a five year program that culminated in bachelor's degrees in mathematics, physics, philosophy & religion [technically, although my course work for that degree program was almost exclusively philosophy; a separate philosophy degree is only now being offered] from Appalachian State University, i.e., already had equal or superior math, physics, logic, et cetera coursework to that presumably completed by Michael Wong. That I have completed that program and begun graduate studies is trivially easy to verify.

A 5 year program in philosophy, physics, mathematics, and religion? When reputable programs in each of those areas take 4 years? What's the name of this program? Professional Dilettante?

You sound like more of a professional liar to me. Especially given some of your past gems, like failing to understand that potential energy is negative: something that can be found in any first-year physics text.

I do like the way you post only to claim that you can meet my criteria, but say that you will not actually show me that scan or accept the challenge.
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Postby Ryan Thunder » 2007-11-30 10:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:something that can be found in any first-year physics text.


Pah, never mind first year. They taught us that as early as Grade 11... :lol:
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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-11-30 10:14pm

Ryan Thunder wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:something that can be found in any first-year physics text.

Pah, never mind first year. They taught us that as early as Grade 11... :lol:

True; tjhairball distinguished himself as an obviously uneducated faker a long time ago. There's simply no way that someone with a physics education could claim that you can "release binding energy"; any physics frosh would laugh at the idea.

I'm guessing that he knows or is related to this Thomas MacIntee, and has been falsely using his name for years to bolster his own credibility (much like certain kiddies try to co-opt the names and qualifications of their fathers in order to appear like "big men" on the Internet). If he actually had a real physics degree, he would not want to associate his real name with tjhairball: a username which is on public record as stupidly saying that you can "release" binding energy as a weapon.
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2007-11-30 10:16pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

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Postby Alien-Carrot » 2007-11-30 10:16pm

Zablorg wrote:They certainly seem to be of the same breed.

In all that six paragraph post, did he actually... post anything?



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Postby Terralthra » 2007-11-30 11:08pm

My favorite is this bit here:

If a direct contradiction can be shown within the ST canon, and the ST canon is admissible evidence in SW/ST debate, then I can prove absolutely anything in SW/ST debate. Including, for example, the "fact" that Phillip II was the best democratically elected Emperor of France in all of history.


Do I even need to go into the massive flaws with this paragraph? And this is from someone who claims to have a degree in philosophy and many classes in logic!

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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-11-30 11:10pm

I actually went to appstate.edu and checked out their requirements for a BS in Math and Physics. It turns out that the requirements for a BS in Math and Physics overlap quite a bit, so it actually wouldn't be that difficult to get a double-degree (the whole bit about the religion/philosophy degree is irrelevant as it is not science-related).

Requirements for a BS in Physics from appstate.edu:
A. Physics (32 semester hours)
PHY 1103 _____ (4) General Physics I (ND)
PHY 1104 _____ (4) General Physics II (ND)
OR
PHY 1150 _____ (5) Analytical Physics I (ND)
PHY 1151 _____ (5) Analytical Physics II (ND)

PHY 2010 _____ (4) Intermediate Physics I
PHY 2020 _____ (4) Intermediate Physics II
PHY 2210 _____ (2) Physics Laboratory Techniques & Data Analysis (W)
PHY 3210 _____ (3) Modern Physics I
________________________________________________________

B. Mathematics (12 semester hours)
MAT 1110 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry I (ND)
MAT 1120 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry II (ND)
MAT 2130 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry III (ND)
________________________________________________________

C. At least 18 semester hours in an emphasis area

I count six core courses, plus 18 semester hours in an "emphasis area" (that's 4 or 5 courses) and three Calculus courses. By way of comparison, University of Waterloo's physics program has thirty core courses, plus elective requirements.

Requirements for a BS in Math from appstate.edu:
A. Mathematics
MAT 1110 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry I (ND)
MAT 1120 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry II (ND)
MAT 2130 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry III (ND)
MAT 2240 _____ (3) Introduction to Linear Algebra (C)
____________________________________________________

B. Completion of one of the options:
1. General - 260*; 260B
MAT 3110 _____ (3) Intro to Modern Algebra (W)
MAT 3220 _____ (3) Intro to Real Analysis I (W)
Plus 13 hours of electives** in mathematical sciences (at least 5 hours at 4000 level); plus 10 semester hours of related* coursework.
OR
2. Applied - 260*; 260C
MAT 3130 _____ (3) Intro to Differential Equations
MAT 3310 _____ (3) Appl of Mathematics (W, S, ND, C)
MAT 4310 _____ (3) Numerical Methods (ND, C)
CS 1440 _____ (4) Computer Science I (C)
CS 2440 _____ (4) Computer Science II (C)
STT 4250 _____ (3) Probability Modeling w/Applications
or STT 3850 _____ (4) Statistical Data Analysis (C, ND)
or STT 4860 _____ (3) Probability Models & Statistical Inference I
Plus 6 hours of approved electives** in Mathematical Sciences (at least 5 hours at the 4000 level in math sciences) and 6 hours of related* coursework.
____________________________________________________

C. A "concentration" of at least 18 semester hours from disciplines outside mathematical sciences.**

If one goes with the general math option, I count only 3 more core courses on top of the physics degree requirements, and 13 hours of related electives.

These requirements are not particularly impressive for bachelor's degree programs, and certainly don't justify hairball's bizarre assertion that he can look down his nose at people who have mere physics or engineering degrees, even assuming he really is who he says he is. So why the bizarre requirement that only someone with much more education can debate him? Oh yes, because he knows he's full of shit and this is just him playing games. Again. Someone who had actually acquired this degree should know in no uncertain terms that it is not superior to an engineering degree.

PS. Just by way of comparison, the Waterloo Mechanical Engineering degree program requires 21 core courses, plus 8 related electives. In other words, it requires more work than both of those degrees combined, in addition to two years of work experience in the field, and several more years on top of that after graduation in order to get your license (the number of postgrad work years has changed a few times). And it's actually considered light on coursework for my alma mater, because the co-op work experience is supposed to supplement your in-class education.

I'm still wondering whether hairball is someone who actually got this degree and is pretending it's much more difficult than it really is, or someone who doesn't actually have this degree and honestly thinks it is much more difficult than it really is. And I'd still like to know how the hell someone with a real physics education could possibly think that binding energy is a positive quantity that you can "release" as a weapon. Nevertheless, just going by the incredibly light coursework requirements for his degree, it may not quite be a "Found in Crackerjack Box" degree but it's not the equal of a good one either.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

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Postby Peptuck » 2007-11-30 11:59pm

From my lofty vantage point, having approximately three times the relevant education as Michael Wong, and probably more than any of the individuals seen posting in the last 49 pages, I reiterate again that his analysis is inconsistent and in almost all regards inferior in every case to the corresponding articles on ST-v-SW.net regardless of the education of its author.


lol wut

I'm working on a fucking International Studies degree that I'm not even finished with yet, with minimal classes in science and mathematics, yet I still understand that when someone says that this:

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is a fucking dug out pit of dirt, they are either terminally retarded or a liar.

Since you claim such a lofty education yet actually believe idiocy like this, I can only conclude that you got such degrees via a truely epic campaign of sucking off your professors.
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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 12:03am

I had been leaning toward the idea that he was trying to piggy-back on someone else's authority, but after learning that an Appalachian State University physics degree has roughly one third the course requirements of a University of Waterloo physics degree, I'm starting to think he might be telling the truth. That's a half-assed degree. No wait, it's actually a third-assed degree.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby Lord Poe » 2007-12-01 12:08am

Uh...

1. Why would anyone with even a modicum of intelligence believe anything said by someone who is a member of Troll Kingdom?

2. Why would anyone believe that VS websites other than Darkstar's are frowned at by learned men? And said individuals must in turn approve of such brain trusts as Troll Kingdom?
Last edited by Lord Poe on 2007-12-01 12:37am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Zablorg » 2007-12-01 12:10am

Fuck, does that mean if I don't pick the right university, I could end up like him?

I'm scared now.


I could actually see how the above image *could* be seen to be as a hole in the ground. The plates that cover it blend in with the surrounding rock/clay-based houses. Although you would have to look at it no more than half a second to think it was.
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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 12:14am

Minor correction: University of Waterloo's physics program has 30 core courses in the first three years, not the entire program. There are 4 more core courses in fourth year, so it actually has 34 core courses.

In fact, looking at the paltry requirements for that appstate degree, I have to wonder what kind of reputation that university has for physics; those requirements look more like something you'd see in a community college course calendar.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 12:18am

Lord Poe wrote:Uh...

1. Why would anyone with even a modicum of intelligence believe anything said by someone who is a member of Troll Kingdom?

2. Why would anyone believe that VS websites other than Darkstar's and frowned at by learned men? And said individuals must in turn approve of such brain trusts as Troll Kingdom?

Well, CaptainChewbacca is a real geologist and he's from there, so you can't necessarily generalize that way. But unlike hairball, he's actually demonstrated some knowledge of the subject matter. But now that I actually went to the bother of looking up how incredibly lightweight an appstate physics degree is, I'm starting to think he may actually be telling the truth. 10 or 11 required courses and 3 maths for a physics degree? University of Waterloo has 11 core courses in the first year alone. And it's not as if the quality of courses goes up when you have a more lightweight program; the opposite is far more likely to be true.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby Connor MacLeod » 2007-12-01 12:32am

It does occur to me that it doesn't actually speak much of how well he does at the classes as well. Not all students will do equally well.. you'll have some who do really well, and some who probably do worse. He could quite have easily let some (if nto all) slide and gotten by with the bare minimums.

I would also imagine that an Engineering course has rather more stringent requirements on top of that (I bet you have to score very high even at a minimum passing - since the things some engineers can build can put people at risk, you don't want to let slackers through.)

I've also known people who basically take as many classes as they can get away with to finish school as quickly as possible. Most of the time these people burn out quickly (lack of sleep, lack of free time, stress, etc.) but he might swing it given what you uncovered, Mike, especially if he just barely scraped by in many of them./

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Postby Terralthra » 2007-12-01 01:11am

He's on the departmental honors list in Physics, that would suggest high grades. Doesn't mean anything about the quality of the program, though.

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Postby skies » 2007-12-01 01:13am

Darth Wong wrote:I had been leaning toward the idea that he was trying to piggy-back on someone else's authority, but after learning that an Appalachian State University physics degree has roughly one third the course requirements of a University of Waterloo physics degree, I'm starting to think he might be telling the truth. That's a half-assed degree. No wait, it's actually a third-assed degree.



Either way, I think we've got a candidate for the flame wars page.

I've looked at the App. State page as well. All I can say is that it seems to be an average state university. His degree is probably a self-designed course structure, with a Math/Physics double major with a lot of overlap, a Philosophy/Religion double minor with a lot of overlap, and no room for specialized material beyond the basics, even if it took five years.

As for getting into graduate school, I can speak from personal experience that its a lot easier to get in than to finish (getting my Ph.D. June 2008 in Cognitive Science). This is mainly because graduate level work is more focused on self-directed research than course work; undergraduate performance has been shown to be no indicator of graduate level performance.

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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 09:40am

How could the graduate program be any good, if the undergraduate program is so lightweight that the entire coursework requirement wouldn't even get you through the second year of an equivalent program at another university?

I don't know how well appstate is regarded, but if it is well-regarded, it can't be for its math/physics programs.
Connor MacLeod wrote:It does occur to me that it doesn't actually speak much of how well he does at the classes as well.

It's a lightweight degree. The classes are probably easy anyway. This helps explain why he didn't understand the concept of binding energy.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 09:51am

Let's put this in perspective, shall we? Here are the course requirements for a physics degree from Appalachian State University (link):
A. Physics (32 semester hours)
PHY 1103 _____ (4) General Physics I (ND)
PHY 1104 _____ (4) General Physics II (ND)
OR
PHY 1150 _____ (5) Analytical Physics I (ND)
PHY 1151 _____ (5) Analytical Physics II (ND)

PHY 2010 _____ (4) Intermediate Physics I
PHY 2020 _____ (4) Intermediate Physics II
PHY 2210 _____ (2) Physics Laboratory Techniques & Data Analysis (W)
PHY 3210 _____ (3) Modern Physics I
________________________________________________________

B. Mathematics (12 semester hours)
MAT 1110 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry I (ND)
MAT 1120 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry II (ND)
MAT 2130 _____ (4) Calculus with Analytic Geometry III (ND)
________________________________________________________

C. At least 18 semester hours in an emphasis area

And here are the course requirements for a physics degree from the University of Waterloo (link), which is actually much better-known for its engineering faculty than its physics faculty:
Year One

Fall
CHEM 120/120L+ Physical and Chemical Properties of Matter/Laboratory
MATH 114 Linear Algebra for Science
MATH 127 Calculus 1 for the Sciences
PHYS 10 Physics Seminar
PHYS 121/131L Mechanics and Waves 1/Laboratory
One elective (0.5 unit)

Winter
CHEM 123/123L+ Chemical Reactions, Equilibria and Kinetics/Laboratory
MATH 128 Calculus 2 for the Sciences
PHYS 10 Physics Seminar
PHYS 122 Mechanics and Waves 2
PHYS 132L Mechanics, Waves and Measurement Laboratory
PHYS 139 Scientific Computer Programming
One elective (0.5 unit)

Year Two

Fall
MATH 227 Calculus 3 for Honours Physics
MATH 228 Differential Equations For Physics and Chemistry
PHYS 10 Physics Seminar
PHYS 232L Measurement Laboratory
PHYS 234 Quantum Physics 1
PHYS 252/252L Electricity and Magnetism/Laboratory
One elective (0.5 unit)

Winter
PHYS 10 Physics Seminar
PHYS 256/256L Geometrical and Physical Optics/Laboratory
PHYS 258 Thermal Physics
PHYS 263 Classical Mechanics and Special Relativity
Two electives (1.0 unit)

Year Three

Fall
PHYS 10 Physics Seminar
PHYS 334 Quantum Physics 2
PHYS 360A Modern Physics Laboratory 1
PHYS 363 Intermediate Classical Mechanics
PHYS 364 Mathematical Physics 1
One elective (0.5 unit)
One elective 300 or 400-level Physics lab (0.25 unit)*

Winter
PHYS 10 Physics Seminar
PHYS 335 Condensed Matter Physics
PHYS 359 Statistical Mechanics
PHYS 365 Mathematical Physics 2
One elective (0.5 unit)
One elective 300 or 400-level Physics lab (0.25 unit)*

Year Four
Students entering Year Four should normally take a total of 5.0 lecture units, which must include the following: PHYS 10, PHYS 434, PHYS 441A, PHYS 441B plus an additional 1.0 unit of Physics electives. PHYS 437A and PHYS 454 are strongly recommended for students intending to do graduate work. For those planning to do graduate work in Theoretical Physics, PHYS 444, and PHYS 475 are also recommended.

See the difference? Appstate's physics program is a pale imitation of a real physics degree. It's a glorified community college program.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 10:06am

I've split this thread from the other one and stickied it just for fun. This is too good to be lost somewhere in the depths of a 50 page thread. And yes, the challenge to the Trekkies remains: find me someone with a reputable physics or engineering degree who agrees with you, and I would be interested in debating that person. I think we've shown pretty conclusively that tjhairball is not that person. He's pretty good at bluffing, though :lol:
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2007-12-01 10:10am, edited 1 time in total.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby Aaron » 2007-12-01 10:10am

I posted this in the trekards thread but it got split while I was posting, so here we go:


Does the UoW winter semester extend into spring, or are you expected to be doing work in the field during those months?
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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 10:12am

Cpl Kendall wrote:I posted this in the trekards thread but it got split while I was posting, so here we go:

Does the UoW winter semester extend into spring, or are you expected to be doing work in the field during those months?

I posted the requirements for the standard UW program, not the co-op one which reduces coursework requirements in exchange for mandatory work in the field. They get summers off.

PS. I killed the duplicate post you made in the other thread.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby Ghost Rider » 2007-12-01 10:28am

Ah, thank you for that Mike. Really looking at that schedule, and realizing what his last post said, I think he was more of a Philosophy major with minors in Physics and Math and Religion.

Either way, I did forget that he did not know what PE was and how gross his outright claims were. Hell, I think he made more mistakes then some AP physics students I knew...certainly knew less then them.
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Postby Darth Wong » 2007-12-01 10:31am

Ghost Rider wrote:Ah, thank you for that Mike. Really looking at that schedule, and realizing what his last post said, I think he was more of a Philosophy major with minors in Physics and Math and Religion.

Either way, I did forget that he did not know what PE was and how gross his outright claims were. Hell, I think he made more mistakes then some AP physics students I knew...certainly knew less then them.

Indeed. tjhairball just demonstrated the problem with bluffing: somebody might call you on it. "Lofty vantage point ..." :lol:
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html

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Postby Tribun » 2007-12-01 11:41am

Eh...is TJ's post still the original?
Because after reading some of the stuff he writes, I can't let go of the impression that someone edited the whole thing (although I could be wrong in this case). Although actually Horsemanning his post surely would be interesting...

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Postby Kane Starkiller » 2007-12-01 12:32pm

The post looks the same as it did when he first posted it.
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Postby brianeyci » 2007-12-01 12:40pm

It is the same.

It's unbelievable isn't it... the claim of "three times more" education, the "lofty vantage" the complete refusal to debate... he didn't see Mike's challenge for what it was, a way to filter out the trash. Mike is not going to go, I have a university degree so I win the debate, but that's exactly what hairball did.

By the way, does anybody know the name of the fallacy where you preempt a rebuttal by mentioning it, and think you've answered it but you haven't? Like when hairball preempted the people who would criticize his degree as too thin, thinking he had answered it just by mentioning the fact.


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