Another could take its place. There's no way to know what it would do.
Say what? You are sending a ship in that direction anyway. If ship one is not available, you send ship two. What part of that is hard to understand?
KIM: That entire vessel's in a state of temporal flux. It's like they exist outside space-time.
PARIS: They're scanning us.
JANEWAY: Get a lock on them.
KIM: I'm trying, but I can't isolate their signals.
If there are signals to be isolated then they must be coming from something, y'know?
Or I can invent some kind of tech explanation like the temporal field around the ship emits photons that allow it to be seen and transmits sensor data in close range for testing purposes. Although that technical explanation isn't even necessary...
You've never heard of Occam's Razor, have you.
when you erase all matter from the star destroyer, you erase every interaction with that matter that ever occured in history. It could very well prevent the primary source of the building material to make the ships.
Conceivably, but unlikely. To use your gold watch analogy, it would have to be from a ridiculously small gold mine, because the mass of gold in a watch will hardly be missed in the formation of larger deposits.
But we know from his own words that the ship can do these things.
Annorax is a nutjob who, whilst claiming he can control the destiny of a single molecule, screws up history time after time when making these changes. I am not going to treat every word that escapes his mouth as gospel, and neither should anyone else with half a brain.
That site even says Relativistic shielding is not considered shielding. It cannot stop weapons like the temporal shields can. It only protects them from certain types of energy generated in hyperspace travel. Voyagers temporal shields blocked krenim torpedos and generated a level nine temporal disruption. Besides the only real mention of those relativistic shields is from a one paragraph sidenote cartoon story on holonet a site that it shakey when it comes to canon as you can tell with them announcing their corrections on their main page all the time.
Oh boy. Relativistic shielding not considered shielding only because
nobody uses temporal weapons in Star Wars! Hence why it isn't lumped in with the regular defensive shields.
As for the source's canon status, well... there is an official Lucasfilm policy, and it is still canon. Trust me, you don't want to start arguing about canon here...
Star wars won't be under attack by krenim weapons. Each time an incursion is made they would have lost all memory the krenim weapon and what it was capable of doing therefor no sense of purpose to create that type of technology.
Because the entire attack force will be wiped out / erased, right? With no survivors or distant observers?
yeah that's your job to become more familiar with what that means.
Oh dear. Look, let's say you want to stop the rise of the Galactic Empire, so you erase Coruscant from history whilst shooting Palpatine / Anakin. Now what?
Something will take its place, and in a civilisation as old as that of Star Wars the chances of the Krenim ship even being able to gather the information necessary to work out the result is slim to none. And, given their abysmal record when they HAD that information, chances are they'll wipe out Coruscant only to find the "Galactic Imperium of Mankind" or whatever giving them hell instead.
NOW do you understand what I'm getting at?
already addressed this (fictional ability in a fictional universe). We are arguing from a fictional universe's point of view. We don't need you to prove that it's a fictional universe. The premise of the ship being outside of space-time is a canon fact. After accepting that premise we no longer need to talk about star wars firepower as a way to stop the weapon.
On-screen visuals still outweigh dialogue. I don't care where Annorax & co claim they are: they can be clearly seen and interacted with in this universe, their magic shielding notwithstanding.
the matter that the ship was made of got erased. The designer was not erased. You see him at the end and a pad on his desk showing the same visuals that were on the time ship. It's unclear whether another one was made or not.
What makes you think he'll have the time or resources to build another with the Empire kicking down the door? Because unlike the piddly little local conflict that caused him to make the original, any assault from the Empire is going to be swift and unstoppable.
a specific type of temporal shielding is required. If this relativistic shielding is considered temporal shielding, it's the weakest type of sheidling ever made. It can block energies in hyperspace, not changes in history.
Given that it manages to maintain the flow of time properly around a ship travelling
faster than light, I'd say it's pretty damn impressive actually.
since the crew don't age, taking decades to get somewhere is not a problem. They can also erased targets on a regular basis on the way there. After each incursion the locals would lose their memories of what is happening and not bother trying to find ways to defeat the weapon. Example: if the ship erased 1 planet the locals wouldn't worry because nothing was erased as far as they know, then another planet gets erased and still nothing was erased as far as they know, etc.. no cause for concern.
First off, have we ever seen it erase a
planet? Or just the stuff on it? It'd be amusing to see the Krenim erase Coruscant, only to find it appears all over again under a different name below them.
In addition, you assume that it'll be erase itself into the galaxy without being stopped. You don't need to remember the last attack to notice this whatever-it-is getting close you know...
their weapon is temporal and phased out of space-time. The weapon would fire like it wasn't even there. Plus the ship should be able to just fly right though the planetary shield since it's phased outside of space-time. Any attempt to prove otherwise is only attempts to prove that star trek is fiction which you would have to be delusional to not already know that.
If the weapon / ship is "phased out of space-time" then how in God's name can it affect this space-time, huh? If it can fly right through a shield where do we see regular Voyager weaponry flying right through the ship?
All incidents of time travel in star wars are only partially documented and due to unusual hyperdrive malfunctions, the effects of the Force, or similar exotic events. Usually people like this insert the word "obvious" in a lame attempt to try to pass off a point as obvious. If they had good knowledge of how time worked they would have temporal shielding and would resemble the federation in the 29th century with their technology to scan time and travel to any point they wished. The krenim know more about temporal science than star wars does yet the krenim ship was able to alter the krenim imperioms history and even the krenim imperium wasn't able to do anything about it.
Good knowledge of how time works =/= ability to travel in it, although arguably they do just that with SW relativistic shielding. Interesting fact about real physics: FTL travel = time travel. SW relativistic shielding somehow stops this. That implies a pretty good understanding of how time works.
in some cases it does like in the new star trek movie. In this case it doesn't. They change the current timeline that they're in, they make that quite clear. It's similiar to the models of time travel shown in the "yesterday's enterprise" TNG, TOS: "The City on the Edge of Forever", Star Trek First Contact, "Future's End" voyager, etc...
No, it's quite possible with most of the time travel situations seen in most of Star Trek if you stopped and thought about it for a moment. Not that that seems likely, but what the hey.
I think I read somewhere that humans were abducted and transported to the star wars galaxy where they colonized the planets. In my scenario, Q transports them there. Naturally star wars and star trek don't interact. In the verses debate we operate under the premise that the ship is in star wars space in order to make the confrontation possible. This objection is refuted by accepting the premise in the hypothetical situation.
Bwuh?
1. That's nice. There's still no definite homeworld for the humans in Star Wars.
2. I don't give two figs about your scenario. We are discussing a confrontation between Star Wars & Star Trek in which you are claiming the Krenim super-ship has super-duper-no-limits shielding, in spite of a lack of evidence beyond some dubious on-screen dialogue.
3. In Star Wars space to make a confrontation possible? What makes you think it won't be in the Krenim Imperium's backyard, given Star Wars' immense FTL advantage?
Doesn't matter. Star trek writers give the vessel the characteristic that it is impervious to weapons from being phased outside normal space-time. Any attempt to find inconsistency in these properties is just an attempt to use a proof of star trek being fictional to prove that the krenim ship is not phased outside normal-space which contradicts star trek canon. If the vessel wasn't outside normal-space then the crew would have shown signs of aging after 200 years, they wouldn't keep making references in the episode that it was outside space-time and the ship would have taken damage when it was attacked while the temporal core was online.
I don't give a toss what the writers' intent was, because that is not how these debates work. I also don't care for your silly argument about ST being fictional. In a debate like this you are supposed to
suspend your disbelief and assume that what you are seeing is real. And what I see is - as opposed to nothing, or a 2D silhouette, or whatever - is a big ship that clearly interacts with the material universe, but has treknobabble shielding that makes it immune to conventional Trek weaponry.
What else... oh yeah, well done on totally ignoring my point about Star Wars invading the Krenim Imperium whilst Annorax is crawling at snail pace towards the enemy.
Rewatching YoH very quickly on YouTube, I was struck by a few things:
1. The shockwave from the weapon takes time to travel through space. Until it hits you, you're not affected. Star Wars ships, with their hyperdrives etc, could simply outrace it, assuming that in spite of the visuals it is a spherical effect and does not merely affect stuff in a plane (
). If it is a planar "shockwave", then I'll just remind everyone that space is 3D and that Star Wars has moved planets in the past...
2. The ship has to be practically in orbit of a planet to be in range of it. Range is consequently cr*p.
3. It clearly has an effect on Voyager when they first meet. Paris notes they're scanning them etc. Oh, and we SEE IT.
4. The "can't isolate their signals" is in relation to Tom Paris & Chakotay suddenly being beamed to Annorax's ship. Also, if you're making such a big deal about dialogue, it seems funny that Harry Kim said that rather than "we can't penetrate their shields with our teleporters", but whatever.
5. Annorax is clearly boasting when talking about the single molecule bit if you watch the scene. People have been known to exaggerate when boasting, and given what a failure this guy is when it comes to buggering around with time, I'd say he exaggerates more than most.
6. The man is clearly obsessed about his wife. Would he even get involved in a ST v SW conflict unless it directly impacted his little region of space and his work? Yes yes, act of Q or whatever gets him involved in this scenario, I'm just talking about Annorax in general.
7. The final attack is done by using
coordinates sent by Tom Paris. Except the ship isn't a part of normal space-time. On screen > dialogue > writers' intent.
8. We see the ships attacking it have their weapons strike some sort of shield. Just like with regular shields in fact.
9. The ship looked like it held up surprisingly well to Voyager crashing into it. It looked more like Voyager crumpled on its hull than penetrated much. Just throwing this out there, because it seems Tom Paris has been talking out of his arse too with regards to "photon grenades" puncturing the hull.
10. At the end when the camera zooms in on the datapads Annorax was working on, it's not clear at all what they show (certainly not the ship though - and why should they, if the guy's wife is RIGHT THERE WITH HIM).
Edit: Almost forgot - Voyager's temporal shields stand up a long time in that thing's main weapon. Clearly the power required for the temporal shields wasn't enough on the two ships that were erased (or they messed up something else, whatever).