More Trektardism

[lord Martiya]

A KE can alter his yield altering the muzzle velocity. Even some types of CATAPULTS can.

[Vehrec]

Only by opening the charge, and then removing some of it. And that strikes me as being pretty inexact compared to say a tuneable laser.

[lord Martiya]

Apart the fact that I was referring to the ballista and other torsion-powered catapults and not to the trebuchet, I wrote that only for sake of precision. Or because I was in vein to be polemic.

[Aratech]

After looking over his latest reply, I must ask the following:

Does the concept of Burden of Proof not sink into Spock's skull? Oy vey.

[Surlethe]

directed energy weapons, as opposed to explosives. The flashes were, as I recall, full-screen white flashes with a duration of a single frame.

I'm almost positive the full-screen white flashes are the energy dissipation from the Devastator's shields as it deals with the Tantive IV's lasers.

[Darth Servo]

After looking over his latest reply, I must ask the following:

Does the concept of Burden of Proof not sink into Spock's skull? Oy vey.

Of course not. NOTHING sinks through a rabid trektard's wall of ignorance.

[Peptuck]

After looking over his latest reply, I must ask the following:

Does the concept of Burden of Proof not sink into Spock's skull? Oy vey.

Of course not. NOTHING sinks through a rabid trektard's wall of ignorance.

Indeed. I pretty much gave up on the discussion over there when he tried to state warp speed would let Trek vessels move around faster than hyperdrive, and wrote off Voyager's slow speeds as a purely fuel-related problem - completely ignoring the obvious limitations imposed by the simple fact that a wormhole between two quadrants became a critical strategic target precisely because they couldn't get from one end of the galaxy to the other in any reasonable time. Even more importantly, it doesn't matter if it is a speed or fuel-related concern; what matters is the simple fact that they cannot get there in any reasonable amount of time. Lack of mobility is still a lack of mobility, regardless of its cause.

Hell, we could circumnavigate the globe in a day's time with planes in World War II, but it took the USA years to fight their way across the Pacific and defeat Japan, and we see the exact same type of strategy used in Trek when war is being planned.

Even Pheonix and Jay accept the speed limitations of warp drive, for fuck's sake.

[Darth Servo]

and wrote off Voyager's slow speeds as a purely fuel-related problem

Didn't he try and argue that max speed requires a lot of fuel and when challenged on that point, cited a bunch of episodes where Voyager needed to refuel?

[Peptuck]

and wrote off Voyager's slow speeds as a purely fuel-related problem

Didn't he try and argue that max speed requires a lot of fuel and when challenged on that point, cited a bunch of episodes where Voyager needed to refuel?

I think so.

Either way, it does nothing to refute the already slow speeds of Trek ships compared with hyperdrive. Whether its fuel concern or a velocity concern, their mobility is nothing compared to any ship with a hyperdrive.

[Darth Wong]

That's one of those situations where you know any normal person would watch Voyager and say "OK, they obviously can't fly across the galaxy in a few weeks", but these people look for loopholes to argue against the only reasonable conclusion.

The word "loophole" describes their methodology really well, in fact. They view the show as a legal document, and they look for loopholes to get around its restrictions. They're like the smart-ass Gonzalez who, when questioned about Habeus Corpus, replied that the Constitution said the government cannot take away Habeus Corpus from the people, but it technically never said the people had Habeus Corpus in the first place. They take the obvious conclusion and instead of really showing that there's anything really wrong with it, they look for sneaky, dishonest loopholes to get around it.

It's also similar in the way that differently educated people respond to it. Legal scholars scoffed at Gonzalez' bullshit and said that this whole thing was unbelievable and he should be sacked immediately. But there were plenty of uneducated Republitards who thought "You know, the man has a point ..." It's the same way with Trekkies; when they commit some horrible violation of physics, it's the uneducated readers who say "That makes just as much sense as what you other people are saying".

[Aratech]

Hate to be a bother, but I'm not the world's best scaler, and some help would be greatly appreciated.

The subject in question here is the first battle of the Chin'toka system, in tears of the prophets.

Namely, finding out 1. When the Jemmy fighters first open up here at roughly 7:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tdsT7zXv2s

The "bugs" are roughly 90 meters in length, and about half that in width. The BoP's are 110 meters long.

Second, if possible, I'd like help in determining the size of this moon here, and at what range the Defiant opens up on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhVnfp1zm6c

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

[Aratech]

Sorry for the double post, but with a little help from Vivftp, I was able to get a program to get some screen captures.

I'm still kind of new to this, and I'd like a second opinion here. I want to say the Jem'Haddar Cockroaches in this pic are about <1.5 kilometers away from the Klingon Birds of Prey. Can anyone confirm if that is correct? (the Jemmy fighters are about 90x45x15 meters in size)

[Batman]

So, which KIND of BoP is that?

[Aratech]

So, which KIND of BoP is that?

Doh. They're the 110 meter long variety.

[Batman]

So, which KIND of BoP is that?

Doh. They're the 110 meter long variety.

Just for the record, I'm not doubting your calculations, I'm just pointing out that there's at LEAST 2 types of BoP that are visually identical. So maybe you should be sure which one you're basing your measurements on.

[Darth Ruinus]

Shit, JMSpock linked Darktard's website.

Seriously, WTF is up with the Death Star being a chain reaction weapon?

BTW, he says that the Death Star cant have all the energy necessary to blow up a planet because of recoil? (right?) Well, dont inertial compensators do something with that?

[Stark]

We don't see the counter-action, just like we don't see the massive cooling efforts or the engines that push the ship to such impressive sublight speeds. Thus, none of them exist and Darkstar is right.

[Peptuck]

or the engines that push the ship to such impressive sublight speeds.

Despite the fact that the Death Star accelerates while passing Yavin?

[Terralthra]

Shit, JMSpock linked Darktard's website.

Seriously, WTF is up with the Death Star being a chain reaction weapon?

BTW, he says that the Death Star cant have all the energy necessary to blow up a planet because of recoil? (right?) Well, dont inertial compensators do something with that?

Not exactly. The energy imparted to Alderaan by the SL weapon is not kinetic energy (well, not all of it, anyway, cf. what is a turbolaser). Minus the kinetic energy of the blast, a good deal of the energy is assumed to be massless photons of one variety or another in an excited state. This energy, when imparted to a large amount of mass (the planet) is converted to kinetic enrgy in the process of blowing up, but that doesn't mean it's kinetic energy at the weapon end.

By analogy, if you have a flashlight and a magnifying glass and you use that to set a piece of wood on fire, you don't measure the energy used in the smoke rising and say, "Now why didn't the flashlight have <the smoke's GPE> in recoil?" The energy transfer was in the form of light, and the kinetic energy displayed by fragments of the target is a by-product of the process it undergoes.

[Darth Wong]

Not exactly. The energy imparted to Alderaan by the SL weapon is not kinetic energy (well, not all of it, anyway, cf. what is a turbolaser). Minus the kinetic energy of the blast, a good deal of the energy is assumed to be massless photons of one variety or another in an excited state. This energy, when imparted to a large amount of mass (the planet) is converted to kinetic enrgy in the process of blowing up, but that doesn't mean it's kinetic energy at the weapon end.

Massless photons still have momentum. At the kind of energy scales we're talking about, that momentum is significant, even when applied to a planet. And really, anyone participating in this debate should know that.

By analogy, if you have a flashlight and a magnifying glass and you use that to set a piece of wood on fire, you don't measure the energy used in the smoke rising and say, "Now why didn't the flashlight have <the smoke's GPE> in recoil?" The energy transfer was in the form of light, and the kinetic energy displayed by fragments of the target is a by-product of the process it undergoes.

That analogy only works if the planet's mass is volatile.

[Terralthra]

Not exactly. The energy imparted to Alderaan by the SL weapon is not kinetic energy (well, not all of it, anyway, cf. what is a turbolaser). Minus the kinetic energy of the blast, a good deal of the energy is assumed to be massless photons of one variety or another in an excited state. This energy, when imparted to a large amount of mass (the planet) is converted to kinetic enrgy in the process of blowing up, but that doesn't mean it's kinetic energy at the weapon end.

Massless photons still have momentum. At the kind of energy scales we're talking about, that momentum is significant, even when applied to a planet. And really, anyone participating in this debate should know that.

I realize that, but it's far less momentum than if the DS weapon was a KEW, I'd think.

By analogy, if you have a flashlight and a magnifying glass and you use that to set a piece of wood on fire, you don't measure the energy used in the smoke rising and say, "Now why didn't the flashlight have <the smoke's GPE> in recoil?" The energy transfer was in the form of light, and the kinetic energy displayed by fragments of the target is a by-product of the process it undergoes.

That analogy only works if the planet's mass is volatile.

I could rephrase the analogy to fit better at the expense of clarity. I was really just saying that the Death Star need not deal with the recoil equal to sum of the increase in GPE of the remnants of Alderaan, because the energy transfer was other than kinetic. I'm not trying to say (as some trekkies seem to purport) that Alderaan was a powder keg planet that just needed a light cough to explode.

[Darth Wong]

I realize that, but it's far less momentum than if the DS weapon was a KEW, I'd think.

For a near-lightspeed weapon, it wouldn't actually make as much difference as you think. As the mass of an object approaches lightspeed, its rest mass becomes small relative to its energy-equivalent mass.

I could rephrase the analogy to fit better at the expense of clarity. I was really just saying that the Death Star need not deal with the recoil equal to sum of the increase in GPE of the remnants of Alderaan, because the energy transfer was other than kinetic. I'm not trying to say (as some trekkies seem to purport) that Alderaan was a powder keg planet that just needed a light cough to explode.

It wouldn't deal with recoil equal to the sum of the energy change even if it was a pure KE weapon. Momentum is not the same thing as energy.

[Terralthra]

Ceded.

[Aratech]

You know, after reading Phoenix's latest posting, I really and honestly think that the kid might not be alright in the head. He's taking this way too personally.

[Stark]

Despite the fact that the Death Star accelerates while passing Yavin?

Thanks for missing the point, you fucking retard. I just listed a bunch of thing IMPLICIT, but not EXPLICITLY shown in the movies, as examples of things MORONS pretend don't exist. What do you think 'impressive sublight speed' means, cretin? It clearly has extremely powerful engines, but they're not visible, just like the massive cooling requirements. This doesn't mean they don't exist.

Wait, let's pretend you're smart and I'm the dumb one. Explain how your retarded post makes a fucking bit of sense. 'zomg teh ds goes fast'? No shit, moron, that's what I just fucking said. You're such a clever dick!