Okay, the horse is dead (how dead?)

The Enterpriser · Post by **The Enterpriser** » 2002-12-27 04:06pm

Star Trek X: Nemesis is now an "official" flop, it's on the 10th place on the boxoffice and will probably stay in the theaters until the 4th weekend. That will probably bring the profits to 30-35 million dollars US.

What do people think will the Nemesis's final domestic gross?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-27 04:13pm

Unsurprising. I knew it would flop.

The Enterpriser · Post by **The Enterpriser** » 2002-12-27 05:22pm

I remember the days on the Trekbbs when people were predicting 130 million $, this was considered low at the time, honestly I think that people at Paramount killed Nemesis of their own free will.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-12-27 06:47pm

The Enterpriser wrote:I remember the days on the Trekbbs when people were predicting 130 million $, this was considered low at the time, honestly I think that people at Paramount killed Nemesis of their own free will.

Now Enterpriser, saying the people at Paramount killed Nemesis of their own free will would imply some kind of intelligent thought. That's giving them too much credit if you ask me.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-28 05:45pm

I'm actually somewhat glad. It deserved to flop. The writing was the worst I have ever seen in a movie, barring only The Musketeer. Moreover, I do not want to see Trek continue to bash its skull uselessly against the wall of public opinion, which is now firmly against it.

Loki · Post by **Loki** » 2002-12-29 12:05am

Any movie that comes out at the same time as LotR isn't going to do that well... surely Paramount must have know this...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-29 02:27am

How dead? The corpse has been picked clean and Hyenas are now crushing and eating the bones.

Trek will soon be dead, hopefully the next season of Enterprise will be canceled and that will be it for at least a decade.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-29 11:54am

Loki wrote:Any movie that comes out at the same time as LotR isn't going to do that well... surely Paramount must have know this...

That's true. Does anyone have ANY idea why they chose to pick that date to release the movie on? It makes no sense. They should have known better than to do that, although the parallel with ST:Insurrection in the BO numbers (except that Nemesis's numbers were lower across the board) is truly pathetic, and indicates that the problem did not entirely lie with TTT's release.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-29 01:10pm

They got beaten on opening weekend by "Maid in Manhattan". There is much more to blame here than the release of TTT.

The Enterpriser · Post by **The Enterpriser** » 2002-12-29 01:13pm

I agree, still the TTT release hastened it's eventual bomb phase. Perhaps it would have improved? Nemesis, however bad is an immense improvement over ST 9: Insurrection, which earned MORE in it's opening period.

Who liked TTT anyway?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-29 01:31pm

The Enterpriser wrote:I agree, still the TTT release hastened it's eventual bomb phase. Perhaps it would have improved? Nemesis, however bad is an immense improvement over ST 9: Insurrection, which earned MORE in it's opening period.

Who liked TTT anyway?

I loved TTT. I thought that in many ways it was a superior movie to the original. Yes, it was weaker in other ways--and in some ways considerably weaker--but the fact of that matter is that, no matter how you look at it, it is still a VASTLY superior film to "Nemesis."

I think that the release of TTT affected the endurance of "Nemesis," and did in fact hurt the second and third week sales of "Nemesis" tickets, but it seems clear to me that "Nemesis" would have been a financial train-wreck for Paramount even if TTT had been released a month after it actually was. The first weekend loss to "Maid in Manhattan" (a movie which it was never able to beat in the Box Office), reveals a lack of enthusiasm for the movie that ran deeper than the Lord of the Rings. While LotR might serve as an excuse for Paramount executives, it is ludicrous to believe that it should serve as a good excuse. The fact that Paramount executives are justifying the movie's poor BO showing by explaining that their own stupidity resulted in the movie's release in an untenable weekend is simply sad. If the newspaper I work for suddenly crashed in terms of sales, and I said that was okay because the editing staff had suddenly and inexplicably stopped giving a damn about the quality of the product, I would be fired along with most of the rest of the editing staff, and many of the writers. That executives are allowed to justify their company's poor financial performance by explaining that it was the result of their original stupidity demonstrates a shocking trend in corporate America. I hope that everyone involved in the movie loses their jobs, because of "Nemesis" and its abysmal performance.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-29 01:47pm

The entertainment business is different than the rest of corporate America. People are allowed to get away with being idiots forever. Look at the music moguls who shove Britney Spears clones and Backstreet Boys clones down our throats at ridiculously inflated prices, notice that sales are dropping, and blame file-sharing rather than unhappy customers.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2002-12-30 09:17pm

Darth Wong wrote:The entertainment business is different than the rest of corporate America. People are allowed to get away with being idiots forever. Look at the music moguls who shove Britney Spears clones and Backstreet Boys clones down our throats at ridiculously inflated prices, notice that sales are dropping, and blame file-sharing rather than unhappy customers.

Gents, I URGE you to rent or buy "An Evening with Kevin Smith". Go to the Superman V chapter, where he rants about Jon Peters. Then you'll understand how TRULY fucked up Hollywood is. As Smith says, "In Hollywood, you just kind of fail upwards."

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-12-31 04:42am

Master of Ossus wrote:
The Enterpriser wrote:I agree, still the TTT release hastened it's eventual bomb phase. Perhaps it would have improved? Nemesis, however bad is an immense improvement over ST 9: Insurrection, which earned MORE in it's opening period.

Who liked TTT anyway?
I loved TTT. I thought that in many ways it was a superior movie to the original. Yes, it was weaker in other ways--and in some ways considerably weaker--but the fact of that matter is that, no matter how you look at it, it is still a VASTLY superior film to "Nemesis."

I think that the release of TTT affected the endurance of "Nemesis," and did in fact hurt the second and third week sales of "Nemesis" tickets, but it seems clear to me that "Nemesis" would have been a financial train-wreck for Paramount even if TTT had been released a month after it actually was. The first weekend loss to "Maid in Manhattan" (a movie which it was never able to beat in the Box Office), reveals a lack of enthusiasm for the movie that ran deeper than the Lord of the Rings. While LotR might serve as an excuse for Paramount executives, it is ludicrous to believe that it should serve as a good excuse. The fact that Paramount executives are justifying the movie's poor BO showing by explaining that their own stupidity resulted in the movie's release in an untenable weekend is simply sad. If the newspaper I work for suddenly crashed in terms of sales, and I said that was okay because the editing staff had suddenly and inexplicably stopped giving a damn about the quality of the product, I would be fired along with most of the rest of the editing staff, and many of the writers. That executives are allowed to justify their company's poor financial performance by explaining that it was the result of their original stupidity demonstrates a shocking trend in corporate America. I hope that everyone involved in the movie loses their jobs, because of "Nemesis" and its abysmal performance.

Come on. Berman and Braga have been there for HOW long without so much as a notion that their jobs might be in jeopardy? Star Trek 5 happened... didn't see any heads rolling there.

If you think anyone important is actually going to be threatened by this, you're out of your mind. Paramount will ride Star Trek into the ground and then some.

Moreover, I do not want to see Trek continue to bash its skull uselessly against the wall of public opinion, which is now firmly against it.

Why not? Who cares if Paramount wastes their money?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-31 10:45am

Because of work and other things I put off seeing Nemesis for awhile. Then when I acutally had time to go see a movie I went and saw the one I was more excited about, TTT. It was the first week of TTT release by the way.

I still planned on going to see Nemesis but the comments here and from my parents made me a little less enthused but I still planned on seeing it. Unfortunately I miscalculated my arrival to the movie theater. It was almost an hour until Nemesis started and only ten mintues before TTT aired again. I went and saw TTT again instead.

I still wouldn't mind seeing TTT more and maybe I'll end up seeing Nemesis before it bows out but currently I'm definately an example of how TTT impacted Nemesis.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-31 04:25pm

Uraniun235 wrote: Come on. Berman and Braga have been there for HOW long without so much as a notion that their jobs might be in jeopardy? Star Trek 5 happened... didn't see any heads rolling there.

If you think anyone important is actually going to be threatened by this, you're out of your mind. Paramount will ride Star Trek into the ground and then some.

That's the thing, though. They're jobs should be in jeopardy. They cost their company millions of dollars in putting out a lackluster product. They're clearly over-paid, and their performance is clearly unsatisfactory. They're job is to run a great deal of Paramount, and to make money. They have failed utterly in doing it, and so they should be in trouble. The fact that they are not, and that they're going to be allowed to continue as if everything was normal is a horrible concept. I don't think that they will be in trouble, but I think that they should be in trouble.

Moreover, I do not want to see Trek continue to bash its skull uselessly against the wall of public opinion, which is now firmly against it.
Why not? Who cares if Paramount wastes their money?

Well, I suppose it's not up to me, but I'm tired of these stupid episodes coming out that have almost nothing to do with anything. I guess that I just sort of root for societal efficiency, and since Star Trek, right now, is totally screwing over society's allocative efficiency, I think it's time it was put out to pasture.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-31 06:49pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Who cares if Paramount wastes their money?

Anyone who owns Viacom stock should care.

Heh. I just noticed that Viacom's stock has been sinking since Dec 9...

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-01 05:05am

Hell since they decided to make Star Trek: Attack of the Clones they should have just gone all out and had the Romulans make a clone army, its the only way they'd have enough troops to invade a planet considering their failed attempt on Vulcan.

THe reason it didn't make so much money on the opening weekend though is that Sci-Fi studs such as ourselves were busy entertaining females and couldn't take the time to go the the theatre,

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-01-01 10:46am

Well, according to what I gleaned at The Numbers.com, Nemesis only managed $3.5 million for the holiday weekend. This movie is sinking like a stone, and at the present rate of decline, I'll be surprised if it's still in theatres at the end of this month.

Solaris is already disappearing from movie houses, and that was a far better film.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-01 01:27pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:Who cares if Paramount wastes their money?
Anyone who owns Viacom stock should care.

Heh. I just noticed that Viacom's stock has been sinking since Dec 9...

This reminds me of the commercial where they start with a movie add for "Blowed Up," and advertise it as "the two hundred sixty million dollar EVENT of the summer." A person sitting at his computer shakes his head, and types in, "SELL: 1000 shares."