Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

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Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-11-05 11:10am

Let's say that due to an organizational change in the Obsidian Order, Seska, undercover operative for the Cardassian Union, is given the task of infiltrating the Bajoran Provisional Government instead of the Maquis, and is made the Bajoran liason to Starfleet at what was formerly known as Terok Nor.

Can she ruin the relationship between Bajor and the Federation? Would she be caught? If she was caught, could she escape before being imprisoned? How much different would this be than Kira's first year on the station?

Essentially, what would happen if the main villain of Voyager was trying to do similar things at DS9 instead?
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by NeoGoomba » 2018-11-05 11:53am

She would be in a position to so brutally screw over any attempt by the Federation to help Bajor it isn't even funny. Just by keeping in constant contact with the Provisional Government, skewing their perceptions of Starfleet, would probably be enough to get them to tell the Federation to fuck off. Kira learning to trust Sisko was helped thaw her mistrust, and so her reports to her government began to be favorable to the Federation. Seska would have no such change of heart. At the very least she would be instrumental in having the Circle's coup succeed.

The true game, however, would be between Seska and Garak once he inevitably discovers her back-channeling.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Darth Lucifer » 2018-11-05 12:50pm

Having to dodge a medical scan by Doctor Bashir would be another issue. As a Bajoran officer and not part of Starfleet, Seska could probably avoid a physical examination when initially coming aboard Deep Space Nine. But the first time she gets injured and comes under the care of Dr. Bashir, he'll discover Seska's Cardassian DNA the same way The Doctor did. Her original cover story was that she had a bone marrow transplant as a child for some rare disease but I think Bashir is competent enough to learn that this is a lie.

Then you have Odo...IIRC, Kira and Odo were good friends before the Federation came along, so that will change the entire dynamic. Also Kira outranked him, so Seska would be his boss. If she doesn't keep a very low profile or tempt's Odo's suspicion somehow, then the shapeshifter will eventually sniff her out. Maybe even sneak into her quarters and spy on her that way.

The interactions between Garak and Quark would be awesome. Knowing Garak, he would blackmail Seska upon learning the truth of her identity. He would keep a secret like this very close and make it work to his advantage. He wouldn't reveal a hand like that unless it was at a crucial moment. Meanwhile, Quark would probably hit on her a little and get rebuffed before grumbling about his business. But I think he'd be all like "There's something about her I don't like..." because I seem to remember Quark being a good judge of character, despite the failings of his own.

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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by NeoGoomba » 2018-11-05 12:56pm

The DNA reveal I forgot about, that's a good point.

But I think she could beg off long enough to still do serious diplomatic damage. The Siege happens less than a year after Starfleet moved in, and if she is on DS9, I wonder if Seska would be informed by the Obsidian Order about their backing of the Circle and advised to do everything possible to support them?
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-11-05 01:15pm

NeoGoomba wrote:
2018-11-05 12:56pm
The DNA reveal I forgot about, that's a good point.

But I think she could beg off long enough to still do serious diplomatic damage. The Siege happens less than a year after Starfleet moved in, and if she is on DS9, I wonder if Seska would be informed by the Obsidian Order about their backing of the Circle and advised to do everything possible to support them?
Even if she wasn't informed, she'd see a movement that's going to kick the Federation out. That perfectly aligns with her goals. All she'd have to do is weigh up the risk of being known as a supporter if it fails.

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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Captain Seafort » 2018-11-05 01:16pm

Darth Lucifer wrote:
2018-11-05 12:50pm
Knowing Garak, he would blackmail Seska upon learning the truth of her identity.
I very much doubt it. For starters, as you say, he'd play his cards very close to his chest as always, to give himself the best advantage. He wouldn't throw away that advantage by letting Seska know he was onto her. Secondly, any OO undercover operative on DS9, temporarily or permanently, would have either "watch Garak like a hawk" or "kill Garak" near the top of their to-do list, without letting on that they were doing either, or that he was anything but a simple tailor. Garak would know or this, and would therefore have frustrating the former and avoiding the latter at the top of his to-do list, while still pretending to be said simple tailor. Letting on that he knew what Seska was would prompt her to move to the second option, and make both his tasks more difficult.

In any event, the likely outcome is that most of the aggro on the station will probably be directly or indirectly caused by both of them trying to manoeuvre into a position to kill the other without getting caught. Given the degree of subtlety Seska usually demonstrated, my money would be on Garak.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Lord Revan » 2018-11-05 02:16pm

It would intresting to think how well Seska could disguise herself from the Bajorans, opposed to the mostly human crew of Chakotay's raider, after all no matter how well read you are it wouldn't compare to actually having lived in the culture.

So Seska might accidently expose herself even without DNA scans, by simply doing something that wouldn't be noticed by someone who isn't bajoran but to bajorans themselves would be a major red flag.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by tezunegari » 2018-11-05 10:06pm

Lord Revan wrote:
2018-11-05 02:16pm
It would intresting to think how well Seska could disguise herself from the Bajorans, opposed to the mostly human crew of Chakotay's raider, after all no matter how well read you are it wouldn't compare to actually having lived in the culture.

So Seska might accidently expose herself even without DNA scans, by simply doing something that wouldn't be noticed by someone who isn't bajoran but to bajorans themselves would be a major red flag.
A cardassian agent replaced the human starfleet officer Raymond Boone in 2362 and was able to keep his cover until 2370 (DS9 2.25 Tribunal).
He was discharged from Starfleet for failing crew performance reviews though.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Darth Lucifer » 2018-11-05 10:43pm

Seska might accidently expose herself even without DNA scans, by simply doing something that wouldn't be noticed by someone who isn't Bajoran but to Bajorans themselves would be a major red flag.
Aren't the Bajoran religious leaders telepathic or something? People like Kai Opaka and Vedek Winn can grab somebody's ear and tell quite a bit about them from reading their pagh.

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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-11-06 06:35am

Darth Lucifer wrote:
2018-11-05 10:43pm
Seska might accidently expose herself even without DNA scans, by simply doing something that wouldn't be noticed by someone who isn't Bajoran but to Bajorans themselves would be a major red flag.
Aren't the Bajoran religious leaders telepathic or something? People like Kai Opaka and Vedek Winn can grab somebody's ear and tell quite a bit about them from reading their pagh.
Debatedly, that could just be a form of Cold Reading based on what they know of the person already.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Lord Revan » 2018-11-06 06:45am

FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-11-06 06:35am
Darth Lucifer wrote:
2018-11-05 10:43pm
Seska might accidently expose herself even without DNA scans, by simply doing something that wouldn't be noticed by someone who isn't Bajoran but to Bajorans themselves would be a major red flag.
Aren't the Bajoran religious leaders telepathic or something? People like Kai Opaka and Vedek Winn can grab somebody's ear and tell quite a bit about them from reading their pagh.
Debatedly, that could just be a form of Cold Reading based on what they know of the person already.
Yeah, that said I suspect Bajorans might be more vary of infiltrators then UFP especially if said infiltrator was in a non-critical position.

EDIT:though I'm not claiming that Seska would be discovered, just saying that she might be, it all depends on the prep and how serious Obsidian order was about her.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Captain Seafort » 2018-11-06 09:02am

Lord Revan wrote:
2018-11-06 06:45am
I'm not claiming that Seska would be discovered, just saying that she might be, it all depends on the prep and how serious Obsidian order was about her.
I suspect it depends on whether she gets more effective alterations to infiltrate Bajor than she did for the Maquis. The OO were certainly capable of creating good enough deep cover operatives to fool routine medical examinations like the one that caught Seska, even among Bajorans, at least under the conditions of the occupation - Iliana Ghemor. It's at least possible that she's still knocking around as a member of the militia.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Solauren » 2018-11-06 09:35am

Given it's possible to do a complete DNA resequence on someone, and it not be an issue (qv how Worf's brother - Kern was given a new identity amongst the Klingons), I don't see the medical examination being a problem for Seska. It would just be a matter to resequence her DNA.

In fact, IIRC, that was what was claimed had happened to the woman that Kira was supposed to have been replaced with. (I forget the episode).

So, with that in mind....

Before dropping Seska on Terak-Nor, she'd have to have been in the Bajoran resistance/militia for some time. She'd have to be aware and convincingly follow Bajorian traditions and social norms. re: Deep Cover.

The odds of her being casually found out drop.

So, no medical scan to give her away, no behaviour tip offs.

Her biggest problem is going to be Garek, and then Sisko being religiously revered by the Bajorans.

Garek is only a problem IF he figures out Seska is O.Order, instead of just Anti-Federation. All Seska has to do with him is simply ignore him, or assign Odo to keep an eye on him.

I find it unlikely her orders include assassinating him. Let's face facts, from what we know, the people responsible for his exile (Dukat, Tain Elbran) were content with Garek being exiled. After all, there were no assassination attempts on him until well into the series.

So, all Seska has to do is play things smart,and she'll end up handing Bajor (and the Wormhole) back to the Cardassians on a platter.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Lord Revan » 2018-11-06 12:43pm

I don't see Garak being much of an issue unless Seska would come in conflict with Garak's ideal of Cardassia, since even in his exile Garak was sort of a patriot. He belived in the ideal of Cardassia, even if he didn't always agree with people in charge of Cardassia. Which probably contributed on him surviving, Garak wouldn't betray the Cardassian goverment unless he thought they had betrayed Cardassia.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by NeoGoomba » 2018-11-06 12:50pm

I could see Garak using Seska to his advantage as a ploy to re-ingratiate himself with Tain. If she slips up, he will pounce on her as if to show (rightfully) just how superior and valuable he is.


Now I'm imagining Garak in Seska's position on Voyager on some kind of "one last mission" for the Order. I wonder what he would have made of Voyager's situation?
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Solauren » 2018-11-06 02:37pm

NeoGoomba wrote:
2018-11-06 12:50pm
Now I'm imagining Garak in Seska's position on Voyager on some kind of "one last mission" for the Order. I wonder what he would have made of Voyager's situation?
Before we get into it's effect on Voyager, that would have a big impact on the rest of the galaxy.

There would be no warning to the UFP + co about the Protomatter device that nearly wiped out the Bajora system, and most of the UFP/Klingon/Romulan forces that showed up after the Cardassians joined the Dominion. Odds are, that would lead to the Dominion conquering a good part of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.


Now, as for Garek on Voyager -
Undercover:
I can't see Garek giving Voyager the problems that Seska did. I can't see him selling the ship out to the Kazon, or giving them tactical information.
I can seem him monitoring all systems he could, and possibly removing threats.
That would also not lead to Voyager getting taken, or them leaving remains on that planet the Voth found.
That could lead to better first contact with the Voth.

Onboard as a Caradassian Observer for the mission:
That makes things very interesting. He'd admit to being a spy, assassin, sabateur, and could show Janeway how that could be useful.
I can see him an Chakotay butting heads a bit.

Assuming they still reach Borg space space, I can see him sending data to the Borg about the Dominion, including co-ordinates for the Founders former homeworld. That could lead to a Borg invasion of the Dominion. I can imagine how badly they'd want to assimilate the Founders.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Captain Seafort » 2018-11-07 08:43am

Solauren wrote:
2018-11-06 02:37pm
Before we get into it's effect on Voyager, that would have a big impact on the rest of the galaxy.

There would be no warning to the UFP + co about the Protomatter device that nearly wiped out the Bajora system, and most of the UFP/Klingon/Romulan forces that showed up after the Cardassians joined the Dominion. Odds are, that would lead to the Dominion conquering a good part of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
Assuming the Dominion even gets a foothold in the AQ. No Garak means no channel to warn the Cardassians of the Klingon invasion, which probably means an even worse Cardassian collapse, the Detappa Council probably gets caught, no Battle of DS9, and ultimately Klingon control of Cardassia Prime. There would be nowhere for the fleet to set up, even if Dukat still tried to persuade the Dominion to back his coup.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Solauren » 2018-11-07 05:57pm

Hmmm, let's run on that....

Klingons invade Cardassia
Cardassia falls to the Klingons. Dukat probably doesn't escape. Odds are, the Cardassian Union collapses and surrenders to the Klingons.
Changeling-Martok pushes for war.
War between the UFP and Klingon Empire. Probably still have the entire situation with them exposing the Changeling.
Dominion still invades. However, they can present themselves as liberating the Cardassians from the Klingons.
Khitomer Accords reinstated
Fleet masses up
Protomatter weapon.

Not a huge difference really, except the initial invasion fleet might be bigger.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-11-07 06:08pm

Solauren wrote:
2018-11-06 02:37pm
Assuming they still reach Borg space space, I can see him sending data to the Borg about the Dominion, including co-ordinates for the Founders former homeworld. That could lead to a Borg invasion of the Dominion. I can imagine how badly they'd want to assimilate the Founders.
Voyager S1 was concurrent to DS9 S3. Garak wouldn't know anything about the Dominion/Founders at that point. Other than 'mysterious dicks that killed a Galaxy class'

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As to Seska and Garak both being on DS9 (the station) it would be very interesting. Seska could at least try to manipulate Garak into helping her by promising him redemption and a return to grace. Garak almost certainly wouldn't believe her but he might still play along.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Solauren » 2018-11-07 09:52pm

Actually, Voyager launched about 5 weeks (going by Star dates on DS9) or more after the Defiant manage to 'find' the Founders homeworld.
Going by the fact that less then half the season later, the Obsidian order launched an attack on the Dominion, it's possible that Garek, with his high end connections to the Order, would know about the build up. (The Order had to decide to move forward with an attack almost immediately to build up a fleet that quickly). Please note, I'm only assuming Garek would know because of who he was within the Order. Any other grunt level guy? Nope. Garek, and still in good with the Order? Absolutely.

In fact, I could see Taim sending Garek on Voyager as a 'last mission before you come and help me with the build up'.

Now, that being said, he could have assumed the attack was successful. By the time he learned it wasn't, going by star dates, Cardassia had joined the Dominion, was was still firmly part of the Dominion. So, Garek wouldn't be that likely to sick the Borg on his peoples allies. However, after the Dominion was kicked out of the Gamma Quadrant, one transmission during an encounter with the Borg....
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-11-08 03:14am

Just a reminder that the next episode in the series after Emissary is Past Prologue, in which Kira has an old associate, Tahna Los, who is given sanctuary on Kira's say so. Said man works to blow up the wormhole, and is only stopped by Kira. Seska's actions in that episode would probably be radically different.
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Re: Seska in Kira's position (RAR)

Post by Solauren » 2018-11-08 12:02pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2018-11-08 03:14am
Just a reminder that the next episode in the series after Emissary is Past Prologue, in which Kira has an old associate, Tahna Los, who is given sanctuary on Kira's say so. Said man works to blow up the wormhole, and is only stopped by Kira. Seska's actions in that episode would probably be radically different.
Actually, would Tahna Los even went to Deep Space Nine if Kira had not been there?

And I can also see Seska, in that position going 'Sir, he's a terrorist that's attacked Bajorians in the past', just to off him.
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