Worst Star Trek Movie?

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-09 09:02pm

First Contact: New awesome Ent design, Defiant, first warp craft, borg sphere.

Insurrection: Dune buggy.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Batman » 2017-08-09 09:38pm

Except the Dune Buggy was Nemesis, Insurrection was the one with the Space Amish
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-09 09:46pm

Oops, yea. Considering I only saw the buggy in ads, I should've remembered that.

Oh wait, I remember!

Insurrection: Joystick

(And it was so cheap looking!)

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Flagg » 2017-08-10 03:02pm

Batman wrote:
2017-08-09 09:38pm
Except the Dune Buggy was Nemesis, Insurrection was the one with the Space Aryans.
Fixed. :lol:
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Flagg » 2017-08-10 04:52pm

Joun_Lord wrote:
2017-08-05 03:46pm
Final Frontier was atleast entertaining. Stupid as all hell? Only in the Mirror Universe its not. A nonsensical plot I think was made solely to stroke Shatner's ego? You better believe it? Boring? Oh hell nah.
It was incredibly boring. When I was 7 the day care center took us to see it and I fucking fell asleep.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Civil War Man » 2017-08-10 05:06pm

Sidewinder wrote:
2017-08-08 04:21pm
'Into Darkness'. Not only does the screenwriter (Roberto Orci) waste the audience's time by shoehorning 9/11 Truth Movement conspiracy theories down our throat, he does so in a matter that disregards the consequences of events that occurred in the previous film, insulting our intelligence and breaking our ability to suspend disbelief.
For me, Beyond is also a contender. I found it almost aggressively dull, with that embarrassingly stupid "destroy the bad guy with the power of the BEASTIE BOYS" space battle as the cringe-worthy cherry on top. At least Star Trek V was bad in a funny way.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Adam Reynolds » 2017-08-10 06:35pm

Trek is a franchise with a few solid contenders for this. Frankly I think that it is a story better suited to the medium of television rather than film. We'll see if Star Trek Discovery can go back to this properly.

Of the first six, I and V are the worst, with V generally worse than I. Though I at least liked the line "What does God need with a starship?" A solid contender largely because it was with the original Enterprise crew and the original cast, damaging the other better films and series by extension. The real problem with both was the same as the some of the bad works in the old Star Wars EU, that they are really just forgettable. But that is also a strength in that you can just ignore them without any real problems.

The TNG films were mostly miss for me. First Contact was the least bad, but it had the problem of not really fitting with the characerization of the resolution to Picard's previous conflict with the Borg in TNG. It was the best paced and overall most enjoyable film of the lot, and the interactions the crew had with Cochrane and Lily were excellent. Genesis had the same problem as the TOS films in that it was forgettable, though it also had the sin of killing Kirk against a lame enemy. Insurrection was interesting in that it was actually the closest example of all of the films at being something that resembles a proper episode, but as noted above it had rather problematic morality in which it was rather hard to root for the crew of the Enterprise under those circumstances. Nemesis was so bad that it destroyed the franchise for nearly a decade, but I haven't actually seen it so I can't otherwise comment.

Of the TNG films only First Contact was really any good, with Genesis probably the least bad even if it did kill Kirk against a pretty lame enemy. Intersection is notable in that it is really the only example of a feature length film that actually covers the same content as a proper episode of the series, but as previously noted has probably the worst moral message of any of of the films. Nemisis I haven't seen, but it was so bad it largely killed the franchise until the reboot.

Personally I think reboot Trek might just be the worst overall, with each film doing a few things right and several things wrong. All of them are generally enjoyable for me once, though I generally disliked all of them upon a second or third viewing as I noticed all of the problems.

Trek '09 brought back the franchise in a moderately enjoyable action movie with solid casting and decent pacing. The fundamental problem here was the characterization of Kirk as being "destined" to captain the Enterprise and the sense that these characters were supposed to be together. It was lazy screenwriting and entirely out of place in Star Trek. This is made worse by the fact that this version of Kirk has all of the arrogance of Shatner's version but little of the intelligence. It also had a terrible science fiction element in that they invented a technology that would make their starships nearly obsolete and never realized this fact. As a side note, what is it with reboots always having to give a backstory?

Into Darkness is probably the worst of the lot, with the 9/11 truther elements and generally bad attempts to be relevant to the present on issues like drone strikes. A much better version of the second commentary came from A Taste of Armageddon, possibly my favorite of classic Trek. It also had the classic reboot problem in that it had a reveal that was supposed to mean something to the characters even though it was really just for the audience. Kirk was somewhat better executed this time around, though his death had the same problem of phase 2 Marvel in that they tried to have their cake and eat it by wanting the emotional impact of the character dying without actually killing him.

Star Trek Beyond is probably the best out of the reboots, though that is almost damning with faint praise. It might be the worst example of Star Trek as a dumb action movie, with virtually no chance for the characters to resolve their conflict with any approach other than violence. Scotty did build an alliance with Jaylah and there were a few clever tricks(even if a couple were actually dumb), but it was still largely a violent solution to their problems. Other than possibly the strongest embrace of the multicultural ideal of the Federation, it also really had no real depth either. The biggest thing it did well was that it had the best characterization of the reboots and perhaps the best use of an ensemble of any Trek film, which is something that made it far more enjoyable than it otherwise would have been. It is still above I/V as well as Nemesis, Generations, and Insurrection.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Joun_Lord » 2017-08-10 07:54pm

Flagg wrote:
2017-08-10 04:52pm
It was incredibly boring. When I was 7 the day care center took us to see it and I fucking fell asleep.
I'm fairly positive I fell asleep watching Empire Strikes Back when I was 5 and that movie didn't even have dancing multi-titted cat ladies.
Adam Reynolds wrote:
2017-08-10 06:35pm
It might be the worst example of Star Trek as a dumb action movie, with virtually no chance for the characters to resolve their conflict with any approach other than violence. Scotty did build an alliance with Jaylah and there were a few clever tricks(even if a couple were actually dumb), but it was still largely a violent solution to their problems.
That is honestly my main complaint about Beyond. Fatty fanboy nerds seem to fall into the camp of either loving it or hating it usually, me and my man boobs are in the camp of loving it. It was a flawed movie to be sure but it was fun in a way that probably no Trek movie has been since IV.

But then ending was so disappointing. Krall is like the living embodiment of the monster of humanity, he is a man who grew up in a time of war, of tragedy, of great change. He was a witness to some of our darkest moments and our greatest triumphs but saw our triumph, of humanity bringing peace to the stars and taking our place out there, as a betrayal of all humanity stood and died for. When he was lost with the Franklin he was truly lost, his very humanity he sacrificed. But there was still the hint there, he still cared, he still cared for his crew and for humanity as a whole, he thought humanity had become weak and only through his actions he would make them strong again.

Then he encounters Kirk and crew, these soft Federation fools who turn out to be not so soft. Who despite all the odds fights against Krall, fights to save their friends, fights the very freaking planet that imprisons them, and then fights to protect the countless innocents of that big 'ol christmas ornament. The Federation did not weaken humanity, diversity did not weaken humanity, humanity is if anything stronger then they were.

I think it would made for a much better ending for Krall, for Edison, to see this. To see he was wrong. To become better, to live up to that Star Trek idea that humanity can become better. And for second there after seeing his reflection in the glass in that weird air exchange cube thing I though he has a change of heart. I mean what was the point of showing his now almost human face, to show him the monster he'd become? But nah, no redemption, just some deus ex and cliche ending with the bad guy defeated by his own hubris or some shit.

That was so very disappointing.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-10 10:22pm

Star Trek 1 had it's problems, plenty of them, but it still won in the end via a method other than violence. 1 and 4 both have that going for them.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Gandalf » 2017-08-10 10:29pm

Q99 wrote:
2017-08-10 10:22pm
Star Trek 1 had it's problems, plenty of them, but it still won in the end via a method other than violence. 1 and 4 both have that going for them.
Yeah, that's why I find it hard to put TMP in the running for worst film. It was a failure, but at least it was a failure at trying to do something different.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Flagg » 2017-08-10 11:26pm

Gandalf wrote:
2017-08-10 10:29pm
Q99 wrote:
2017-08-10 10:22pm
Star Trek 1 had it's problems, plenty of them, but it still won in the end via a method other than violence. 1 and 4 both have that going for them.
Yeah, that's why I find it hard to put TMP in the running for worst film. It was a failure, but at least it was a failure at trying to do something different.
It wasn't close to different since it ripped off "2001"'s cinematography and a 5 hour shuttle ride said he looked like Stallon get to deny something
Last edited by Flagg on 2017-08-10 11:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Batman » 2017-08-10 11:29pm

While Nemesis and TFF easily beat TMP for worst movie there's a 'reason' they call it 'The Motionless Picture'. Plus they had uniforms that made the TNG s1 PJs look good by comparison. At least those kept the colour coding.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Lord Revan » 2017-08-11 01:31am

There is color coding in the TMP uniforms it's just color palette is so washed out it's hard to notice.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-11 08:23am

It's not that TMP did something different, it's that it did something Star Trek, and focused a lot on the awe and beauty of space.

... a bit too much, it could've used an edit, but it's heart was in the right place ^^

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Lord Revan » 2017-08-11 09:42am

Q99 wrote:
2017-08-11 08:23am
It's not that TMP did something different, it's that it did something Star Trek, and focused a lot on the awe and beauty of space.

... a bit too much, it could've used an edit, but it's heart was in the right place ^^
The motion picture's problem was that it was a 1 hour script spread over 2 and half hours and most the missing time was filled with slow pace effects, had they instead filled that missing time by for example expanding on Decker's storyline or the storylines of the main cast we and used those effects more sparingly it might have been a great movie. I dout that you can get TMP above "meh" with just edits as though the movie's heart is in the right place there's just not enough content to really fill the running time.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2017-08-11 02:33pm

Star Trek Into Darkness, Nemesis, Generations, First Contact, Star Trek II, Star Trek III, Star Trek IV, Star Trek 2009, Star Trek: Beyond, Star Trek V, Insurrection, Star Trek VI, Star Trek The Motion Picture.

In that order.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Flagg » 2017-08-11 03:58pm

Flagg wrote:
2017-08-10 11:26pm
Gandalf wrote:
2017-08-10 10:29pm
Q99 wrote:
2017-08-10 10:22pm
Star Trek 1 had it's problems, plenty of them, but it still won in the end via a method other than violence. 1 and 4 both have that going for them.
Yeah, that's why I find it hard to put TMP in the running for worst film. It was a failure, but at least it was a failure at trying to do something different.
It wasn't close to different since it ripped off "2001"'s cinematography and a 5 hour shuttle ride said he looked like Stallon get to deny something
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Batman » 2017-08-11 06:01pm

Lord Revan wrote:
2017-08-11 01:31am
There is color coding in the TMP uniforms it's just color palette is so washed out it's hard to notice.
Oh there were different coloured uniforms alright but there seemed to be no system to it. Kirk, Spock/McCoy and Scotty all wore pale blue. Later, many named character wore white short-sleeved shirts with pale-blue pants regardless of division . In the wormhole sequence, both Kirk and McCoy wore pale blue,as did Ilia, while Sulu and Chekov wore beige, as did Uhura. When Ilia was digitized, her replacement (Chief DiFalco) wore beige.
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'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
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'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Darth Lucifer » 2017-08-11 08:25pm

I thought the TMP uniforms had the departmental colors in the colored circle behind the Starfleet emblem, but I'll have to rewatch it to be sure.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Batman » 2017-08-11 09:40pm

Doesn't work. When Kirk first arrives on the bridge, Uhura's circle is yellow and Chekov's is pale grey. Decker's pale blue uniform when we meet him in engineering has a 'white' background circle. So does Kirk's once he switches into the pale blue PJs to welcome Bones, or Chekov in the torpedo sequence. McCoy's background circle is a greenish yellow. When Spock dons the pale blue and fixes the Warp drive, his background disk is red. and remains so for the rest of the movie, despite identifying himself as the new science officer.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2017-08-12 09:22am

Maybe they're Mood Uniforms that change colour depending on how they're feeling.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-12 10:08am

That'd fit with the era.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2017-08-12 12:18pm

Flagg wrote:
2017-08-10 11:26pm
It wasn't close to different since it ripped off "2001"'s cinematography and a 5 hour shuttle ride said he looked like Stallon get to deny something
Ripped off?

It had lots of space shots, but not like 2001. Which bits of the cinematography are ripped off? Other than it being "slow" ?

5 hours? Try 3.9 minutes.
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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Darth Lucifer » 2017-08-12 07:24pm

The Director's Cut of TMP was a slight improvement in terms of pacing and the new special effects + visuals. I used to think this was the worst Trek movie, but after reading Darth Wong's synopsis, that was the final nail in the coffin for Star Trek: Nemesis.

A piece of trivia re: the Director's Cut...I noticed all references to God were edited out.

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Re: Worst Star Trek Movie?

Post by Batman » 2017-08-12 07:30pm

TMP at least had the theme and the absolutely stunning introduction to the rebuilt E-Nil. Nemesis had...nothing.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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