StarDestroyer.Net BBS

In my opinion, the new Klingons look like Drow

Have you read or seen any of the "explanations" for the Klingons?
First time I can remember I wanted to kill whoever wrote the shit, AND the moron on the video trying to justify it.....

Jaepheth wrote: ↑2017-08-07 04:36am In my opinion, the new Klingons look like Drow

Wut? Drow are just your generic fantasy Elf painted black. If anything all the post-TOS Klingons look like goblinoids or orcs (and I'm hazy enough on my D&D biology that orcs may very well be a subset of goblinoids).

No, Orcs are not considered a Goblinoid.

That's like saying Dogs are a type of cat.

That'd be the bit where I'm a bit hazy about my D&D biology

And the best explanation for the different-looking Klingons between TOS and the movies/the TNG era was Worf's 'we don't like to talk about it' from DS9
because nobody cared.
Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?

Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?

They did....
And it's level

Burak Gazan wrote: ↑2017-08-07 09:07pm

Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?

They did....
And it's level

Please elaborate.

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2017-08-07 09:48pm

Burak Gazan wrote: ↑2017-08-07 09:07pm

Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?

They did....
And it's level

Please elaborate.

One of the "creature designers for the show put it thusly:

Neville Page wrote:“The Empire is very big. They don’t all grow up on Qo’noS. They don’t all live on the same planets and certainly those different planets would have different environments. So how would the cultures have evolved differently?” We tried to come up with cultural axioms for each house so each looks different and they bear a cultural patina like our cultures do here on Earth.”

So I'm not really bothered by this. It actually seems pretty cool, showing that a species spread out across a quadrant should all look and dress the fucking same.

Gandalf wrote: ↑2017-08-07 09:54pm So I'm not really bothered by this. It actually seems pretty cool, showing that a species spread out across a quadrant should all look and dress the fucking same.

It's a good explanation if they show some other Klingons too, I feel.

But if all the ones we see look the same (and they look more like each other than most prior Klingons - I do have some worries the digital molds may have made them a bit one-complex-look-fits-all), it comes across more as revamp than new ethnic group. If they really do show it as just one example, then that's neat.

The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive. And please, let's not use Threshold-type ideas of evolution. And as one reviewer put it, they SAY you'll see some of the other 'old look' klingons. But I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt you will
They aren't SHINY or NEW enough

So I'm not really bothered by this. It actually seems pretty cool, showing that a species spread out across a quadrant should all look and dress the fucking same.

I'm not terribly bothered , compared to other things, but until now, Klingons have been depicted as being fairly homogenous. Geez, John Ford's ideas for the Imperial Race , and the Fusions was fine too, and should have been used as the standard explanation; But Gene
The Federation, as an example, is not all humans, but when you think of Starfleet, THAT is who you think of. And I really don't want to get into the skulls they showing and trying to liesplain why they don't even look remotely like Klingons, of any Race. It's just bad

Aside from "Is different! Waaa!" do you actually have a substantive point or is it internet fanboy posturing?

Burak Gazan wrote: ↑2017-08-08 12:47am The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive.

Lots of time and/or wormholes.

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2017-08-08 01:49am

Burak Gazan wrote: ↑2017-08-08 12:47am The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive.

Lots of time and/or wormholes.

Sublight sleeper ships also make sense in this context.

Burak Gazan wrote: ↑2017-08-08 12:54am I'm not terribly bothered , compared to other things, but until now, Klingons have been depicted as being fairly homogenous. Geez, John Ford's ideas for the Imperial Race , and the Fusions was fine too, and should have been used as the standard explanation; But Gene
The Federation, as an example, is not all humans, but when you think of Starfleet, THAT is who you think of. And I really don't want to get into the skulls they showing and trying to liesplain why they don't even look remotely like Klingons, of any Race. It's just bad

The Klingons aren't *that* homogenous. First bald Klingon was ST6, there's a pretty wide variety of forehead ridges- from just little bumps in the muddle (random Klingon also in ST6) to common types to more rounded ridges (Worf's grandpa).

Like, I could pretty well accept a few like this, but it'd be cool if they were mixed in with hair Klingons.

Though one of my concerns is the appliance is so bulky that it's harder to make subtleties in expression. The nose is a bit much...

Gandalf wrote: ↑2017-08-08 01:38am Aside from "Is different! Waaa!" do you actually have a substantive point or is it internet fanboy posturing?

Klingons having super-duper undefined sensory organs on their skulls/heads now, thus no hair

Gandalf wrote: ↑2017-08-08 01:56am

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2017-08-08 01:49am

Burak Gazan wrote: ↑2017-08-08 12:47am The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive.

Lots of time and/or wormholes.

Sublight sleeper ships also make sense in this context.

Throw in some technobabble they were exposed to during the trip and you can excuse quite a lot of changes.

Then there is the possibility of genetic engineering. The genetic engineering eugenics wars was done without access to alien genetics. Bashir's modifications had to have him appearing as an unmodified human. Limitations that might not apply to Discovery's Klingons.

Task Force Games Starfleet Battles made the Klingons the leading inheritors of a collapsed previous empire. I don't have an issue with the Klingon Empire having more than one race in it, and "stupid Americans Starfleet" presuming who they encounter are Klingons and not just another of the former subject races under than umbrella.

In that setting, they also used the other subject races and could lose control of their ships through revolt (under the right circumstances). Again, I wouldn't mind the writers choosing to basically say "there was a purge of the other races from the Empire, we're going to show that". At least that way, Klingons are bad guys again, and not slightly-goofy lovable viking/samurai/"noble savages" we can relate to. Qapla'!

I actually like the explanation of the stupid looking spikey Klingons being a sub-species from presumably the thousands (hundreds) of years of space exploration. One complaint alot of people has is just how same looking the cultures we met are. Everyone wears the same clothes, everyone has the same haircut, everyone follows the same religion or central cultural tenant, everyone is carbon copy of each other.

However there is a good reason for some of the sameness we see considering we are mostly dealing with militaries (even if they aren't called that). One thing you can count on in the military is a uniform approach to things. Take the real world US Army, everyone has the same haircut, everyone wears the same clothing, everyone save weekend warriors is in decent shape.

Starfleet, most of the Klingons we encounter, the Romulans and so on are probably going to follow a similar pattern. Most of Starfleet is going to be fit younger people not because the Federation practiced fat people genocide but to join a service you probably have to meet a minimum fitness requirement. All the Klingons we see dress the same way and constantly talk about their honor and courage and how flaccid and limp their opponents are because they are boastful soldiers. The Romulans all have the same doofy haircut because its their equivalent of the crew cut. Of course it becomes a problem when ALL of the culture seems to be that way, all of the species acts and looks the same as these military style examples we see.

That is part of the problem with these dinguses, if they are part of of the Klingon military why are they flying different ships and wearing different uniforms? Are they like the real world military units that are given special permission to wear unique uniform bits because of cultural reasons, is the spikey armor like the fuzzy cap of the Welsh guard?

Why also have we never seen them before? Because not seeing them before means we don't see them again, most of Trek is in the future of this series. Even 10 years from now during TOS we don't see these fucks. Of course we have the out of universe explanation they weren't invented yet but does little to deal with the in universe question.

But all thats really just side bullshit only fan boys and girls will quibble over. The main thing about these Klingons is they just look terrible, atleast in my opinion. And I just think the half assed attempts to justify them don't bode well for the show atleast from a fans perspective.

Batman wrote: ↑2017-08-07 07:17pm Wut? Drow are just your generic fantasy Elf painted black. If anything all the post-TOS Klingons look like goblinoids or orcs (and I'm hazy enough on my D&D biology that orcs may very well be a subset of goblinoids).

I mostly know Drow through Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn

So the blueish tinged skin and the spider-web looking armor is quite reminiscent of the art style the Drow had in that game; not to mention the cultural emphasis of "houses".

Joun_Lord wrote: ↑2017-08-08 12:57pmHowever there is a good reason for some of the sameness we see considering we are mostly dealing with militaries (even if they aren't called that). One thing you can count on in the military is a uniform approach to things. Take the real world US Army, everyone has the same haircut, everyone wears the same clothing, everyone save weekend warriors is in decent shape.

Starfleet, most of the Klingons we encounter, the Romulans and so on are probably going to follow a similar pattern. Most of Starfleet is going to be fit younger people not because the Federation practiced fat people genocide but to join a service you probably have to meet a minimum fitness requirement. All the Klingons we see dress the same way and constantly talk about their honor and courage and how flaccid and limp their opponents are because they are boastful soldiers. The Romulans all have the same doofy haircut because its their equivalent of the crew cut. Of course it becomes a problem when ALL of the culture seems to be that way, all of the species acts and looks the same as these military style examples we see.

That is part of the problem with these dinguses, if they are part of of the Klingon military why are they flying different ships and wearing different uniforms? Are they like the real world military units that are given special permission to wear unique uniform bits because of cultural reasons, is the spikey armor like the fuzzy cap of the Welsh guard?

Easy explanation: The feudal nature of the Klingon Empire means that while there is a centralised KDF working for the high council/chancellor, a lot of what might be called the Klingon military works for specific Houses and will just fight "alongside" the central forces. These House militaries may have a specific flair to them.

Why also have we never seen them before? Because not seeing them before means we don't see them again, most of Trek is in the future of this series. Even 10 years from now during TOS we don't see these fucks. Of course we have the out of universe explanation they weren't invented yet but does little to deal with the in universe question.

On screen there have been how many Klingons, and how many Klingon worlds? If we include extras, maybe a few hundred, and less than a dozen Klingon planets?

Now put that against the sheer size and population of the empire.

Really what I want is, to show diversity, have these groups be shown alongside each other, at least briefly.

Then it comes across more as diversity and less as switch-over.

Q99 wrote: ↑2017-08-08 11:19pm Really what I want is, to show diversity, have these groups be shown alongside each other, at least briefly.

Then it comes across more as diversity and less as switch-over.

I agree with this, the Klingon equivalent of the multi-species crews made possible by better CGI in nutrek. Showing several already known Klingon designs alongside or at some point would be not only cool, but reasonable.

Nothing saying this House survives to Ent- or TOS-era. Somewhere I read* there would be "other Klingons" in Discovery, possibly in opposition to this group. Klingons are a superstitious cowardly lot fractious group

*found it:

Showrunner Aaron Harberts wrote:We will introduce several different houses with different styles.

from http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/17/star-trek-d ... ons-photo/