New star trek discovery info at SDCC

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Jaepheth
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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Jaepheth » 2017-08-07 04:36am

In my opinion, the new Klingons look like Drow
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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-07 07:03pm

Have you read or seen any of the "explanations" for the Klingons?
First time I can remember I wanted to kill whoever wrote the shit, AND the moron on the video trying to justify it.....
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Batman » 2017-08-07 07:17pm

Jaepheth wrote:
2017-08-07 04:36am
In my opinion, the new Klingons look like Drow
Wut? Drow are just your generic fantasy Elf painted black. If anything all the post-TOS Klingons look like goblinoids or orcs (and I'm hazy enough on my D&D biology that orcs may very well be a subset of goblinoids).
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Solauren » 2017-08-07 07:38pm

No, Orcs are not considered a Goblinoid.

That's like saying Dogs are a type of cat.
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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Batman » 2017-08-07 07:47pm

That'd be the bit where I'm a bit hazy about my D&D biology
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Batman » 2017-08-07 07:56pm

And the best explanation for the different-looking Klingons between TOS and the movies/the TNG era was Worf's 'we don't like to talk about it' from DS9
because nobody cared.
Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-07 09:07pm

Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?
They did....
And it's :wtf: level
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by bilateralrope » 2017-08-07 09:48pm

Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-08-07 09:07pm
Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?
They did....
And it's :wtf: level
Please elaborate.

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Gandalf » 2017-08-07 09:54pm

bilateralrope wrote:
2017-08-07 09:48pm
Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-08-07 09:07pm
Unless they came up with an even stupider explanation why they look different yet again in Discovery than the one from ENT?
They did....
And it's :wtf: level
Please elaborate.
One of the "creature designers for the show put it thusly:
Neville Page wrote:“The Empire is very big. They don’t all grow up on Qo’noS. They don’t all live on the same planets and certainly those different planets would have different environments. So how would the cultures have evolved differently?” We tried to come up with cultural axioms for each house so each looks different and they bear a cultural patina like our cultures do here on Earth.”
So I'm not really bothered by this. It actually seems pretty cool, showing that a species spread out across a quadrant should all look and dress the fucking same.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-07 10:23pm

Gandalf wrote:
2017-08-07 09:54pm
So I'm not really bothered by this. It actually seems pretty cool, showing that a species spread out across a quadrant should all look and dress the fucking same.
It's a good explanation if they show some other Klingons too, I feel.

But if all the ones we see look the same (and they look more like each other than most prior Klingons - I do have some worries the digital molds may have made them a bit one-complex-look-fits-all), it comes across more as revamp than new ethnic group. If they really do show it as just one example, then that's neat.

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-08 12:47am

The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive. And please, let's not use Threshold-type ideas of evolution. And as one reviewer put it, they SAY you'll see some of the other 'old look' klingons. But I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt you will
They aren't SHINY or NEW enough
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-08 12:54am

So I'm not really bothered by this. It actually seems pretty cool, showing that a species spread out across a quadrant should all look and dress the fucking same.
I'm not terribly bothered , compared to other things, but until now, Klingons have been depicted as being fairly homogenous. Geez, John Ford's ideas for the Imperial Race , and the Fusions was fine too, and should have been used as the standard explanation; But Gene :roll:
The Federation, as an example, is not all humans, but when you think of Starfleet, THAT is who you think of. And I really don't want to get into the skulls they showing and trying to liesplain why they don't even look remotely like Klingons, of any Race. It's just bad
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Gandalf » 2017-08-08 01:38am

Aside from "Is different! Waaa!" do you actually have a substantive point or is it internet fanboy posturing?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by bilateralrope » 2017-08-08 01:49am

Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-08-08 12:47am
The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive.
Lots of time and/or wormholes.

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Gandalf » 2017-08-08 01:56am

bilateralrope wrote:
2017-08-08 01:49am
Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-08-08 12:47am
The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive.
Lots of time and/or wormholes.
Sublight sleeper ships also make sense in this context.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-08 02:40am

Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-08-08 12:54am
I'm not terribly bothered , compared to other things, but until now, Klingons have been depicted as being fairly homogenous. Geez, John Ford's ideas for the Imperial Race , and the Fusions was fine too, and should have been used as the standard explanation; But Gene :roll:
The Federation, as an example, is not all humans, but when you think of Starfleet, THAT is who you think of. And I really don't want to get into the skulls they showing and trying to liesplain why they don't even look remotely like Klingons, of any Race. It's just bad
The Klingons aren't *that* homogenous. First bald Klingon was ST6, there's a pretty wide variety of forehead ridges- from just little bumps in the muddle (random Klingon also in ST6) to common types to more rounded ridges (Worf's grandpa).

Like, I could pretty well accept a few like this, but it'd be cool if they were mixed in with hair Klingons.

Though one of my concerns is the appliance is so bulky that it's harder to make subtleties in expression. The nose is a bit much...

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Burak Gazan » 2017-08-08 03:14am

Gandalf wrote:
2017-08-08 01:38am
Aside from "Is different! Waaa!" do you actually have a substantive point or is it internet fanboy posturing?
Klingons having super-duper undefined sensory organs on their skulls/heads now, thus no hair
:wtf:
"Of course, what would really happen is that in Game 7, with the Red Sox winning 20-0 in the 9th inning, with two outs and two strikes on the last Cubs batter, a previously unseen meteor would strike the earth, instantly and forever wiping out all life on the planet, and forever denying the Red Sox a World Series victory..."

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by bilateralrope » 2017-08-08 04:02am

Gandalf wrote:
2017-08-08 01:56am
bilateralrope wrote:
2017-08-08 01:49am
Burak Gazan wrote:
2017-08-08 12:47am
The only problem being, aside from NEVER been shown before, is how precisely, do you spread these nubs across a vast expanse of space , when you lack warp drive.
Lots of time and/or wormholes.
Sublight sleeper ships also make sense in this context.
Throw in some technobabble they were exposed to during the trip and you can excuse quite a lot of changes.

Then there is the possibility of genetic engineering. The genetic engineering eugenics wars was done without access to alien genetics. Bashir's modifications had to have him appearing as an unmodified human. Limitations that might not apply to Discovery's Klingons.

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Khaat » 2017-08-08 12:00pm

Task Force Games Starfleet Battles made the Klingons the leading inheritors of a collapsed previous empire. I don't have an issue with the Klingon Empire having more than one race in it, and "stupid Americans Starfleet" presuming who they encounter are Klingons and not just another of the former subject races under than umbrella.

In that setting, they also used the other subject races and could lose control of their ships through revolt (under the right circumstances). Again, I wouldn't mind the writers choosing to basically say "there was a purge of the other races from the Empire, we're going to show that". At least that way, Klingons are bad guys again, and not slightly-goofy lovable viking/samurai/"noble savages" we can relate to. Qapla'!
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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Joun_Lord » 2017-08-08 12:57pm

I actually like the explanation of the stupid looking spikey Klingons being a sub-species from presumably the thousands (hundreds) of years of space exploration. One complaint alot of people has is just how same looking the cultures we met are. Everyone wears the same clothes, everyone has the same haircut, everyone follows the same religion or central cultural tenant, everyone is carbon copy of each other.

However there is a good reason for some of the sameness we see considering we are mostly dealing with militaries (even if they aren't called that). One thing you can count on in the military is a uniform approach to things. Take the real world US Army, everyone has the same haircut, everyone wears the same clothing, everyone save weekend warriors is in decent shape.

Starfleet, most of the Klingons we encounter, the Romulans and so on are probably going to follow a similar pattern. Most of Starfleet is going to be fit younger people not because the Federation practiced fat people genocide but to join a service you probably have to meet a minimum fitness requirement. All the Klingons we see dress the same way and constantly talk about their honor and courage and how flaccid and limp their opponents are because they are boastful soldiers. The Romulans all have the same doofy haircut because its their equivalent of the crew cut. Of course it becomes a problem when ALL of the culture seems to be that way, all of the species acts and looks the same as these military style examples we see.

That is part of the problem with these dinguses, if they are part of of the Klingon military why are they flying different ships and wearing different uniforms? Are they like the real world military units that are given special permission to wear unique uniform bits because of cultural reasons, is the spikey armor like the fuzzy cap of the Welsh guard?

Why also have we never seen them before? Because not seeing them before means we don't see them again, most of Trek is in the future of this series. Even 10 years from now during TOS we don't see these fucks. Of course we have the out of universe explanation they weren't invented yet but does little to deal with the in universe question.

But all thats really just side bullshit only fan boys and girls will quibble over. The main thing about these Klingons is they just look terrible, atleast in my opinion. And I just think the half assed attempts to justify them don't bode well for the show atleast from a fans perspective.

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Jaepheth » 2017-08-08 02:24pm

Batman wrote:
2017-08-07 07:17pm
Wut? Drow are just your generic fantasy Elf painted black. If anything all the post-TOS Klingons look like goblinoids or orcs (and I'm hazy enough on my D&D biology that orcs may very well be a subset of goblinoids).
I mostly know Drow through Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn

So the blueish tinged skin and the spider-web looking armor is quite reminiscent of the art style the Drow had in that game; not to mention the cultural emphasis of "houses".
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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Gandalf » 2017-08-08 10:12pm

Joun_Lord wrote:
2017-08-08 12:57pm
However there is a good reason for some of the sameness we see considering we are mostly dealing with militaries (even if they aren't called that). One thing you can count on in the military is a uniform approach to things. Take the real world US Army, everyone has the same haircut, everyone wears the same clothing, everyone save weekend warriors is in decent shape.

Starfleet, most of the Klingons we encounter, the Romulans and so on are probably going to follow a similar pattern. Most of Starfleet is going to be fit younger people not because the Federation practiced fat people genocide but to join a service you probably have to meet a minimum fitness requirement. All the Klingons we see dress the same way and constantly talk about their honor and courage and how flaccid and limp their opponents are because they are boastful soldiers. The Romulans all have the same doofy haircut because its their equivalent of the crew cut. Of course it becomes a problem when ALL of the culture seems to be that way, all of the species acts and looks the same as these military style examples we see.

That is part of the problem with these dinguses, if they are part of of the Klingon military why are they flying different ships and wearing different uniforms? Are they like the real world military units that are given special permission to wear unique uniform bits because of cultural reasons, is the spikey armor like the fuzzy cap of the Welsh guard?
Easy explanation: The feudal nature of the Klingon Empire means that while there is a centralised KDF working for the high council/chancellor, a lot of what might be called the Klingon military works for specific Houses and will just fight "alongside" the central forces. These House militaries may have a specific flair to them.
Why also have we never seen them before? Because not seeing them before means we don't see them again, most of Trek is in the future of this series. Even 10 years from now during TOS we don't see these fucks. Of course we have the out of universe explanation they weren't invented yet but does little to deal with the in universe question.
On screen there have been how many Klingons, and how many Klingon worlds? If we include extras, maybe a few hundred, and less than a dozen Klingon planets?

Now put that against the sheer size and population of the empire.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Q99 » 2017-08-08 11:19pm

Really what I want is, to show diversity, have these groups be shown alongside each other, at least briefly.

Then it comes across more as diversity and less as switch-over.

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by CetaMan » 2017-08-09 02:39am

Q99 wrote:
2017-08-08 11:19pm
Really what I want is, to show diversity, have these groups be shown alongside each other, at least briefly.

Then it comes across more as diversity and less as switch-over.
I agree with this, the Klingon equivalent of the multi-species crews made possible by better CGI in nutrek. Showing several already known Klingon designs alongside or at some point would be not only cool, but reasonable.

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Re: New star trek discovery info at SDCC

Post by Khaat » 2017-08-09 11:16am

Nothing saying this House survives to Ent- or TOS-era. Somewhere I read* there would be "other Klingons" in Discovery, possibly in opposition to this group. Klingons are a superstitious cowardly lot fractious group

*found it:
Showrunner Aaron Harberts wrote:We will introduce several different houses with different styles.
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