Star Trek: Discovery

PST: discuss Star Trek without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

Post Reply
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15428
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Contact:

Star Trek: Discovery

Post by Knife » 2016-07-23 07:34pm

So on face book, this is about. Introducing the new starship. https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekCBS/vi ... 626814791/

Besides the fact that it is obviously a phase 2 rehash, the CGI is horrible for a show for 2017. This can't be real.
Last edited by LadyTevar on 2016-07-24 10:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spelling!
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15252
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: 'Very' mildly hopeful now DC recognized taking Clark's red trunks away was a bad idea
Contact:

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Batman » 2016-07-23 07:38pm

Yikes. That's barely game-level. And man, that's one ugly ship. It looks like the offspring of a Starfleet vessel raped by a Klingon one.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15428
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Contact:

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Knife » 2016-07-23 07:43pm

I'm hoping I got duped by onion or something, it really doesn't seem good enough CGI for a star trek show in 2017 even if the phase 2 wannabe is the real design. I hope it's not. One of the biggest gripes with Enterprise is that it had nothing new, just rehashed TNG to include the Akiraprise. Just using phase 2 ship (which is ugly as hell) is lazy and doesn't bode well for the show.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

User avatar
tezunegari
Jedi Knight
Posts: 540
Joined: 2008-11-13 12:44pm

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by tezunegari » 2016-07-23 08:05pm

That looks like the concept art for the Constitution-refit from the "Planet of the Titans" movie pitch for Star Trek: The Movie.
[ Star Trek: Planet of the Titans (Memory Alpha GERMAN) ]

Remove the saucer section or integrate it into the triangula engine section and it might work as a design... but screw me with a chainsaw, that thing is ugly.
"Bring your thousands, I have my axe."
"Bring your cannons, I have my armor."
"Bring your mighty... I am my own champion."
Cue Unit-01 ramming half the Lance of Longinus down Adam's head and a bemused Gendo, "Wrong end, son."
Ikari Gendo, NGE Fanfiction "Standing Tall"

User avatar
Enigma
is a laughing fool.
Posts: 7602
Joined: 2003-04-30 10:24pm
Location: c nnyhjdyt yr 45

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Enigma » 2016-07-23 08:24pm

No wonder they went after Axanar. They probably have better production value than this barrel of crap.
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)

"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons

ASSCRAVATS!

User avatar
RogueIce
_______
Posts: 13252
Joined: 2003-01-05 01:36am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by RogueIce » 2016-07-23 08:40pm

Knife wrote:I'm hoping I got duped by onion or something, it really doesn't seem good enough CGI for a star trek show in 2017 even if the phase 2 wannabe is the real design. I hope it's not. One of the biggest gripes with Enterprise is that it had nothing new, just rehashed TNG to include the Akiraprise. Just using phase 2 ship (which is ugly as hell) is lazy and doesn't bode well for the show.
It's posted on the official, verified Star Trek YouTube page. So nope.

That is some shit CGI. I can't imagine why they'd release that, even for a teaser. I hope the show gets a better budget than this thing got. They could have made the video in Goddamn STO and it would look 100x better than that.

And the design is just...bleh. From some angles it looks merely decent, but in other angles it's pretty poopy.

The story, characters and acting had better be fucking top notch or this series will be shit.
Image
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12294
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Elheru Aran » 2016-07-23 08:58pm

Count me in for a fifth or whatever digit in concurrence on the poor design and CGI. I strongly hope it's just an extremely early teaser.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14985
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2016-07-23 09:01pm

RogueIce wrote:
Knife wrote:I'm hoping I got duped by onion or something, it really doesn't seem good enough CGI for a star trek show in 2017 even if the phase 2 wannabe is the real design. I hope it's not. One of the biggest gripes with Enterprise is that it had nothing new, just rehashed TNG to include the Akiraprise. Just using phase 2 ship (which is ugly as hell) is lazy and doesn't bode well for the show.
It's posted on the official, verified Star Trek YouTube page. So nope.

That is some shit CGI. I can't imagine why they'd release that, even for a teaser. I hope the show gets a better budget than this thing got. They could have made the video in Goddamn STO and it would look 100x better than that.

And the design is just...bleh. From some angles it looks merely decent, but in other angles it's pretty poopy.

The story, characters and acting had better be fucking top notch or this series will be shit.
Well, that's the thing.

Pretty effects are all well and good, but a show will not succeed or fail on effects. In the end, it always comes down to writing, and actors who can convey it well (or cover up any minor defects with the quality of their performances).

Take, oh, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It never had top notch CGI, and the first season or two are painfully low-budget in appearance, but the show became a critically acclaimed cult classic on the basis of clever and moving writing and good performances from some of the cast.

Or classic Doctor Who- that show wasn't beloved for decades based the consistent excellence of its effects, even by the standards of its time.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12294
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Elheru Aran » 2016-07-23 09:08pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
RogueIce wrote:
Knife wrote:I'm hoping I got duped by onion or something, it really doesn't seem good enough CGI for a star trek show in 2017 even if the phase 2 wannabe is the real design. I hope it's not. One of the biggest gripes with Enterprise is that it had nothing new, just rehashed TNG to include the Akiraprise. Just using phase 2 ship (which is ugly as hell) is lazy and doesn't bode well for the show.
It's posted on the official, verified Star Trek YouTube page. So nope.

That is some shit CGI. I can't imagine why they'd release that, even for a teaser. I hope the show gets a better budget than this thing got. They could have made the video in Goddamn STO and it would look 100x better than that.

And the design is just...bleh. From some angles it looks merely decent, but in other angles it's pretty poopy.

The story, characters and acting had better be fucking top notch or this series will be shit.
Well, that's the thing.

Pretty effects are all well and good, but a show will not succeed or fail on effects. In the end, it always comes down to writing, and actors who can convey it well (or cover up any minor defects with the quality of their performances).

Take, oh, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It never had top notch CGI, and the first season or two are painfully low-budget in appearance, but the show became a critically acclaimed cult classic on the basis of clever and moving writing and good performances from some of the cast.

Or classic Doctor Who- that show wasn't beloved for decades based the consistent excellence of its effects, even by the standards of its time.
The problem with that-- stipulating, by the way, that I do agree with what you're saying-- is that people can now produce almost movie-quality effects as a *hobby* nowadays. Look at Fractalsponge's work, for example. CBS/Paramount are a major studio; there is absolutely no excuse for cobbling together something that looks like a early-90s game FMV effect.

High quality CGI effects have become far cheaper and simpler than they used to be. Building a set of digital models is still expensive, but like... hell, Rebels almost looks better than that, and it's a weekly television show on the Disney Channel. Of course Disney is probably even bigger than Paramount, but still.

Now I can give them some room for error on it being a low resolution Facebook video... but still, it didn't look good, and you can do high-res videos on Facebook now can't you?
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.

bilateralrope
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3729
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by bilateralrope » 2016-07-23 09:19pm

How many shows can you think of with worse than videogame quality CGI ?

How many of those had video games set in the same franchise ?

Sure, it probably won't break the show. But I expect that lack of care/budget that caused them to use sub-video game CGI means that there will be other problems.
Elheru Aran wrote:Building a set of digital models is still expensive
So don't. Get the models from STO and use them.

User avatar
Iroscato
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2324
Joined: 2011-02-07 03:04pm
Location: Great Britain (It's great, honestly!)

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Iroscato » 2016-07-23 09:27pm

I'm hardly the kind of guy that favours fancy special effects over story and character development, but shit and damn, that is some fucking horrendous CGI. It looks comically bad. I'm hoping this is some sort of hastily put together concept teaser thingy and the real thing will have effects that at least look as good as...shit I dunno, Voyager maybe?

It's out in January - there's been nary a whisper about who's starring in it, who's directing which episodes, or any solid, actual information about the show. If they're trying to build hype, I'd say so far they're doing quite a piss-poor job of it so far.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

- Raw Shark

Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent.

- SirNitram (RIP)

User avatar
SpottedKitty
Jedi Knight
Posts: 884
Joined: 2014-08-22 08:24pm
Location: UK

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by SpottedKitty » 2016-07-23 09:57pm

Batman wrote:And man, that's one ugly ship. It looks like the offspring of a Starfleet vessel raped by a Klingon one.
Either that or the model was designed by someone who'd never seen any Trek, working from a (badly) written description. Looks weird, and worse than amateurish — the New Voyages short Going Boldly is much better in comparison. :wtf:
“Despite rumor, Death isn't cruel — merely terribly, terribly good at his job.”
Terry Pratchett, Sourcery

bilateralrope
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3729
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by bilateralrope » 2016-07-23 10:18pm

Watching the trailer a second time I have a few more thoughts:

- The CGI for the rock of the asteroid was decent. Which makes the ship CGI being terrible even worse.
- The dock is inside an asteroid for some reason. My first guess as to the reason (secret shipyard) makes me worried about the series.
- Turning the lights on after releasing the docking clamps seems an odd move.
- Facebook commentators point out a cloaking device sound at the end of the trailer. The idea of this ship having a cloaking device worries me, as it would mean that the ship is a warship, not an exploration vessel.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14985
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2016-07-23 10:25pm

While a cloaking device would most likely be on a warship, technically a science vessel observing a pre-warp society would have use for one as well.

In any case, most Starfleet vessels are multi-purpose.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
Skywalker_T-65
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2293
Joined: 2011-08-26 03:53pm
Location: Bridge of Battleship SDFS Missouri

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Skywalker_T-65 » 2016-07-23 10:31pm

SpottedKitty wrote:
Batman wrote:And man, that's one ugly ship. It looks like the offspring of a Starfleet vessel raped by a Klingon one.
Either that or the model was designed by someone who'd never seen any Trek, working from a (badly) written description. Looks weird, and worse than amateurish — the New Voyages short Going Boldly is much better in comparison. :wtf:
Weeeeellll...

New ship is really old? ST is aping Ep VII going back to McQuarrie Art?

So...yeah. It's clearly a call back to this, at least IMO.

Even has the asteroid, which is...yeah.
SDNW5: Republic of Arcadia...Sweden in SPAAACE

bilateralrope
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3729
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by bilateralrope » 2016-07-23 10:44pm

Skywalker_T-65 wrote:
SpottedKitty wrote:
Batman wrote:And man, that's one ugly ship. It looks like the offspring of a Starfleet vessel raped by a Klingon one.
Either that or the model was designed by someone who'd never seen any Trek, working from a (badly) written description. Looks weird, and worse than amateurish — the New Voyages short Going Boldly is much better in comparison. :wtf:
Weeeeellll...

New ship is really old? ST is aping Ep VII going back to McQuarrie Art?

So...yeah. It's clearly a call back to this, at least IMO.

Even has the asteroid, which is...yeah.
Now I'm worried that they will also be using the storylines mentioned in that article.

bilateralrope
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3729
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by bilateralrope » 2016-07-23 11:13pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:While a cloaking device would most likely be on a warship, technically a science vessel observing a pre-warp society would have use for one as well.
Would a ship that sits in one system for months or years at a time, watching the locals without interacting with them, make for interesting Trek episodes ?
In any case, most Starfleet vessels are multi-purpose.

Sticking a cloaking device onto an exploration ship seems like a bad idea because its presence gives the impression that you like sneaking around. Especially if it is running when you cross a border you didn't know about and enter their space accidentally. Making it hard to convince other civilisations that you are peaceful explorers, especially if that civilisation is engaged in hostilities with someone else.

Now lets talk about the Starfleet vessels with cloaking devices that I can think of:
- The Defiant. A dedicated warship.
- The Holoship from Insurrection. Intended to be used for abduction.
In both cases, these ships got a cloaking device because their specific mission required one. Neither ship was meant for peaceful exploration.

User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10916
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Lord Revan » 2016-07-24 12:33am

Am I the only one who seems confused as to when and in which timeline this is suppose to happen, I mean the ship in addition of being butt ugly seems to imply Kelvin timeline on some details but others like the red bussard collectors and low thousands registry (the registry seems to be NCC-10xx with the last 2 numbers not being clearly seen from the angle we see them) seems to imply pre-2233 or prime timeline in the 23 century.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

User avatar
tezunegari
Jedi Knight
Posts: 540
Joined: 2008-11-13 12:44pm

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by tezunegari » 2016-07-24 01:02am

It's NCC - 1031.

I don't really have a problem with the cgi itself but I hope this is only a test render. Once there are 1080p videos with less compression available it might actually look better.

Regarding the ships design though, if they remove the saucer section and the neck... the ship might actually look workable in a boxy / angular kind of way. As if Starfleet tried to copy klingon designs.

Now if the ship would look like this instead.
"Bring your thousands, I have my axe."
"Bring your cannons, I have my armor."
"Bring your mighty... I am my own champion."
Cue Unit-01 ramming half the Lance of Longinus down Adam's head and a bemused Gendo, "Wrong end, son."
Ikari Gendo, NGE Fanfiction "Standing Tall"

User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15428
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Contact:

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Knife » 2016-07-24 01:31am

Guys, it's the phase 2 model they played with before turning the star trek series into the motion picture and the basis for the Galaxy design. Besides the shitty CGI, it's just a rehash of something someone pitched in 1977 for the 'next Enterprise'. Someone saw a stardestroyer and decided if they stick a saucer section on it, it would be awesome. Fucking hacks.

As an aside, if they had to do another time frame, pre Nu Trek would be a good time to play in. Or post Trek movies with Kirk but prior to STNG.

Edit: One more point, the CGI and design are important. This is the Enterprise, it is a character.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

User avatar
PREDATOR490
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1690
Joined: 2006-03-13 08:04am
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by PREDATOR490 » 2016-07-24 01:35am

The series was going to be fighting a massive uphill battle from the beginning so I can imagine it is being funded poorly in the hopes that it will succeed and thus deserve getting more money pumped into it. From a frugal business view this might make sense but I am of the opinion this will end up being a massive mistake.
Especially, if this series is meant to be set in the new franchise since the movies are all about spectacular effects, it is going to be even more horrific to have a series that looks really cheap.

As far as the ship goes - I do not like it but to be fair the ship is of minimal importance compared to the writing behind it. I will be more interested in the quality of the actors they decide to launch this series with and the actual direction it is supposed to go in.

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2008
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Q99 » 2016-07-24 04:48am

I do love that they went with the name 'Discovery.' *That's* what Trek is about.

The ship? I think it's a little ugly, but also solid. I dunno, I can see loving it. Looks like it has a bit of Klingon influence. Looks tough, maybe to instill a sense of going it on it's own.

User avatar
Mange
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4089
Joined: 2004-03-26 01:31pm
Location: Somewhere in the GFFA

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Mange » 2016-07-24 05:19am

Well, the Discovery is clearly based on Ralph McQuarrie's concept art of the Enterprise for the cancelled Planet of the Titans. No word yet on when it'll be set?

EDIT: Sorry, it'll be set in the Prime timeline according to TrekMovie: TrekMovie
Last edited by Mange on 2016-07-24 05:23am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Joun_Lord
Jedi Master
Posts: 1211
Joined: 2014-09-27 01:40am
Location: West by Golly Virginia

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Joun_Lord » 2016-07-24 05:21am

The CGI is crap though this is an early teaser, presumably the CGI will be cleaned up for the series proper a year from now.

Not sure on the design. Does look a bit like Klingon ship somebody slapped a saucer on. Infiltration ship maybe? Cross species ship for a Federation and Klingon crew with design elements of both cultures?

Like Lord Revan I'm a bit confused about the registry. Its a fairly low number and I thought the registry mostly went I guess sequentially with newer ships having higher numbers and so forth rather then just picking and choosing number all willy nilly. If its NCC 1031 then it should be newer then the Kelvin (NCC 0514) but older then the Enterprise (if you don't know its registry what are you doing here). Maybe its a prequel to the reboot films.

Any way its goes I'll atleast check the show out.

User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10916
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Star Trek: Discorvery

Post by Lord Revan » 2016-07-24 05:44am

the primary hull looks fine, with some added detail it might even look nice, but the secondary hull looks like it needed a couple more design passes to make it fit the starfleet design tradition better there's nothing wrong with the basic shape there it just looks like too bukly and angular for a starfleet ship.

maybe make the nacelle struts less bulky and the center part sleeker and you have nice design (the Vengence suffers from the same problem of being too angular).

the USS Franklin from ST:beyond has the registry of NX-326, assuming no re-issues with registries that would make the Kelvin a rather old design, but then we don't know for how long the Kelvin had been in service before it was destroyed.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

Post Reply