Cardassian Lifespans?

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Lord Revan
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Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Lord Revan » 2015-10-27 04:35am

Has there been any info on what the lifespans of typical cardassian is like? So for example would it be possible for Dominion war era Legate to still be around in STO (set in 2409-2410)?
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2015-10-27 05:22am

Well it's certainly at least on par with human life spans.

Non canon http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Cardassian_Sourcebook says 144 years is the oldest recorded cardassian. MyCoy was what, 137?

Garak once said some cardassian houses can have either 4 or 5 generations living in it at the same time (or was it Gemorey?)
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2015-10-27 12:49pm

As far as I know there's not a whole lot of biological information on most ST races out there. All we know about the Cardassians is they prefer warm climates, they're susceptible to a number of common diseases, they may be able to resist Vulcan mind-melds, and they can produce children with some other humanoid races. (See Memory Alpha)

So... without further information the default assumption, given that they have enough biological similarity to the general humanoid template to reproduce with Bajorans and Kazon (and presumably humans), would be that their lifespan is probably broadly similar. Could be longer, could be shorter, who knows. Vulcans can live well over 200 years (see Spock and Sarek), Klingons can live at least 150+ years (Koloth, Kang and Kor). Admittedly both decline markedly towards the end there. El-Aurians are an outlier; Guinan is around 500 years old, but it's possible that before their planet was destroyed by the Borg they had some kind of life-extension technology. And suspended animation can certainly play a factor; there have been several cases in Trek.

As for the 4 to 5 generations thing-- it's possible if Cardassians typically reproduce young, or something like that. Say they begin reproducing at ~20 years old or something. Cardassian A is born, that's one generation; he/she reproduces at ~20yo, bringing forth B, who reproduces at ~20 when A is 40yo, for C; C reproduces when A is 60, bringing forth D, for four generations, and D has a child when A is 80, bringing it up to five generations. Not impossible even here and now (though somewhat of a stretch). Much more likely with extended lifespans made possible by medical technology.

So if you want an excuse for a Cardassian from the Dominion War era to still be alive in Trek, roll with something like a suspended-animation prison being used to punish them for war crimes or... something. That's what I would do, anyway.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Borgholio » 2015-10-27 12:58pm

roll with something like a suspended-animation prison being used to punish them for war crimes or... something. That's what I would do, anyway.
Hey, that idea worked out rather amusingly in Demolition Man. :)
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2015-10-27 01:08pm

Borgholio wrote:
roll with something like a suspended-animation prison being used to punish them for war crimes or... something. That's what I would do, anyway.
Hey, that idea worked out rather amusingly in Demolition Man. :)
I was actually thinking Minority Report, but it's not like the idea hasn't been used before. It would work in this case, anyway, especially as suspended animation is definitely a thing in Trek. The only issue would be coming up with a decent reason. Maybe the Federation forces the Cardassians to take their own to task for Bajoran/Dominion war crimes? Something like that. We already have had one Gul show up in STO that dates from TNG (Madred, IIRC).
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2015-10-27 02:56pm

Elheru Aran wrote:As far as I know there's not a whole lot of biological information on most ST races out there. All we know about the Cardassians is they prefer warm climates, they're susceptible to a number of common diseases, they may be able to resist Vulcan mind-melds, and they can produce children with some other humanoid races. (See Memory Alpha)

So... without further information the default assumption, given that they have enough biological similarity to the general humanoid template to reproduce with Bajorans and Kazon (and presumably humans), would be that their lifespan is probably broadly similar. Could be longer, could be shorter, who knows. Vulcans can live well over 200 years (see Spock and Sarek), Klingons can live at least 150+ years (Koloth, Kang and Kor). Admittedly both decline markedly towards the end there. El-Aurians are an outlier; Guinan is around 500 years old, but it's possible that before their planet was destroyed by the Borg they had some kind of life-extension technology. And suspended animation can certainly play a factor; there have been several cases in Trek.

As for the 4 to 5 generations thing-- it's possible if Cardassians typically reproduce young, or something like that. Say they begin reproducing at ~20 years old or something. Cardassian A is born, that's one generation; he/she reproduces at ~20yo, bringing forth B, who reproduces at ~20 when A is 40yo, for C; C reproduces when A is 60, bringing forth D, for four generations, and D has a child when A is 80, bringing it up to five generations. Not impossible even here and now (though somewhat of a stretch). Much more likely with extended lifespans made possible by medical technology.

So if you want an excuse for a Cardassian from the Dominion War era to still be alive in Trek, roll with something like a suspended-animation prison being used to punish them for war crimes or... something. That's what I would do, anyway.
If Cardassians regularly reproduced at 20, this might explain the huge starvation problems Cardassia was having, and the need for them to expand to other systems, as mentioned in Chain of Command. This would also need to be influenced by Cardassians having huge families, and a rather resource starved world. The latter we know they have, but it's unknown how many kids Cardassian families usually have.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2015-10-27 03:09pm

Dukat had 7
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Crazedwraith » 2015-10-27 04:05pm

And that's 7 legitimate kids. And at least two bastards. But it's not known how typical he is.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Simon_Jester » 2015-10-28 05:54pm

Gul Madred is, canonically, still around in the STO era, despite first appearing in late TNG. And he's still spry enough to put up a good fight when the player character assaults Terok Nor, even if he does call himself "an old man."

It's reasonable that one or more of the Cardassian legates of that era would be alive, especially if they were in their prime rather than being relatively old back in those days.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Darmalus » 2015-10-28 09:22pm

Plus medical technology to stretch things further. McCoy was 137 as an active admiral and no one seemed to treat this as an unusual age for a human to reach.

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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Batman » 2015-10-28 09:29pm

Since when is STO canon?
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Prometheus Unbound » 2015-10-29 02:22am

Darmalus wrote:Plus medical technology to stretch things further. McCoy was 137 as an active admiral and no one seemed to treat this as an unusual age for a human to reach.
Um... Everyone treated it as strange. PicRd called him unique. Data mentions it as the first thing he says to McCoy and McCoy says it as well. I think Data uses the word remarkable.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2015-10-29 01:47pm

Batman wrote:Since when is STO canon?
It's not, but Revan was asking a question related to it-- likely remembering Gul Madred's appearance in the plot. So we're trying to rationalize that, I suppose.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Lord Revan » 2015-10-29 05:01pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Batman wrote:Since when is STO canon?
It's not, but Revan was asking a question related to it-- likely remembering Gul Madred's appearance in the plot. So we're trying to rationalize that, I suppose.
Yeah as Aran said STO is not technically speaking canon and sure Simon knew this as well and was merely refering to the that Gul Madred appeared in the pre-rewamp version of the Cardassian Struggle storyline (that mission did sadly not survive the rewamp).

however my true purpose was to ask if a Dominion War era Cardassian be alive in 2410 because of a foundry Project I'm working on.
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The main villains are a duo of Tal Shiar romulan (though disguised as a leader of a mercenary group) and a corrupt Cardassian legate with ties to the True Way (though not "officially" a member)
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Simon_Jester » 2015-10-29 07:46pm

They cut the mission with Gul Madred too? DAAMMN IT!

I mean seriously, revamp yes, but he made a perfectly logical villain and there was nothing wrong with his voice acting. I liked that boarding action, though granted it was a bit repetitive.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2015-10-29 07:52pm

The whole going to Terek Nor all the time got old... I haven't been in STO for quite some time now. Oh well, at least my Delta Rising character won't have to deal with that. I hope.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Lord Revan » 2015-10-29 10:13pm

Simon_Jester wrote:They cut the mission with Gul Madred too? DAAMMN IT!

I mean seriously, revamp yes, but he made a perfectly logical villain and there was nothing wrong with his voice acting. I liked that boarding action, though granted it was a bit repetitive.
Did Madred have voice acting? I seem to remember text only for him.

Either way I'm guessing they wanted a more unique looking villain (the in game model for Madred was a generic cardassian mob)and even if you didn't use him for voice acting you'd have pay David Warner for his look.
Elheru Aran wrote:The whole going to Terek Nor all the time got old... I haven't been in STO for quite some time now. Oh well, at least my Delta Rising character won't have to deal with that. I hope.
the new cardassian Struggle is much more streamlined mostly removing all the pointless side paths that made it lack focus of the missions involving cardassians they really only removed 2 the one where you help that colony and the one where you board Terok Nor, rest of the missions are still there at least in spirit.

They also made the True Way look a bit less powerful, so it's less practically the Cardassian goverment and more of the small faction like it's suppose to be.
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Re: Cardassian Lifespans?

Post by Simon_Jester » 2015-10-30 05:57am

Elheru Aran wrote:The whole going to Terek Nor all the time got old... I haven't been in STO for quite some time now.
Yeah, visiting Deep Space 9 repeatedly was a bit silly, especially back in the old days when it was the main endgame hub and was slooooow.

But again, I honestly think they could have tightened up the Cardassian Front campaign without radically cutting out several missions' worth of content. Rearranging the existing missions and revamping some of the graphics would have been good.
Lord Revan wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:They cut the mission with Gul Madred too? DAAMMN IT!

I mean seriously, revamp yes, but he made a perfectly logical villain and there was nothing wrong with his voice acting. I liked that boarding action, though granted it was a bit repetitive.
Did Madred have voice acting? I seem to remember text only for him.

Either way I'm guessing they wanted a more unique looking villain (the in game model for Madred was a generic cardassian mob)and even if you didn't use him for voice acting you'd have pay David Warner for his look.
Could have sworn they did have a voice, if not Warner's voice. And... honestly, given that they more or less did this for characters like Tasha Yar and Miral Paris even back in the day*, I would hardly be surprised if they could do it for Gul Madred. Worst case, the correct response to having to pay a little extra for use of the character should have been to make him MORE of a character, not to cut him entirely.

*(As in, before they called Denise Crosby in to do Sela and somehow accidentally gave the time-travelling Yar from Temporal Ambassador the face of a 55-year-old Crosby)
Elheru Aran wrote:The whole going to Terek Nor all the time got old... I haven't been in STO for quite some time now. Oh well, at least my Delta Rising character won't have to deal with that. I hope.
the new cardassian Struggle is much more streamlined mostly removing all the pointless side paths that made it lack focus of the missions involving cardassians they really only removed 2 the one where you help that colony and the one where you board Terok Nor, rest of the missions are still there at least in spirit.
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I like having some side plots. It's tiresome to fight the same enemies exclusively for ten or fifteen levels

Now, I get why they cut the mirror universe sideplot, so that they could retcon and revamp the mirror universe for the new campaign they're adding. But... well, the other main sideplot was the Undine activities. And frankly I think that shouldn't have been cut. The Undine were the 'ultimate villains' of STO for a long time before the Iconians were revealed, and are still the ones responsible for a lot of the conflict in the series. Cutting their involvement out of the Romulan and Cardassian campaigns isn't necessarily an improvement. Because now it makes it seem like the Undine aren't really 'involved' in Alpha/Beta Quadrant affairs, except for fighting the Borg up around Season 6. Which is NOT consistent with the existing storyline.

Even if the Iconians are the ones who provoked the Undine into attacking the Federation and Klingons, that doesn't mean we should forget entirely about the Undine and treat them as 'just misunderstood.'

Plus, one of the stories involving the Undine was the only mission in the whole campaign sequence where Federation characters get to take any kind of stance for or against Section 31.
They also made the True Way look a bit less powerful, so it's less practically the Cardassian goverment and more of the small faction like it's suppose to be.
That's good but they could have done it in a number of different ways. I mean, in the colony assistance mission, the True Way ends up looking like a bunch of petty thugs- that's hardly incompatible with making them look less powerful.
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