Replicaitors and raw food stalk

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Purple
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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Purple » 2015-07-28 07:24pm

Maybe it's just Riker being a smug fool? I mean, we have that kind of fools today in our society. Why should the future be any different?
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Simon_Jester » 2015-07-28 11:36pm

Hm. My impression is that Riker isn't normally smug, or a fool. Am I mistaken?
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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Purple » 2015-07-29 07:13am

Have you seen season 1? All the characters were smug fools.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Borgholio » 2015-07-29 08:36am

I think Riker was one of the more grounded of them, but even he felt he was "holier than thou" when it came to certain issues.
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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Elheru Aran » 2015-07-29 09:15am

Borgholio wrote:I think Riker was one of the more grounded of them, but even he felt he was "holier than thou" when it came to certain issues.
You see this with a lot of Starfleet characters in general. Probably comes back to that whole 'Starfleet culture' thing you were speaking of earlier-- I do think there's something to that. You see similar 'cultures' pop up in, say, the military-- even different branches will have different cultures. The Marines are technically part of the Navy, but you wouldn't know it from how they act.
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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Purple » 2015-07-29 09:54pm

I figure that in the life of an average federation civilian the food replicator probably has a position similar to the microwave oven in the modern world. It's a cheap, easy and quick way to get a ready made meal to fill you up. And for a large amount of people that's as far as their cooking needs goes. Add to that the health and taste benefits of actual food as opposed to microwave reheat ready made stuff that people buy today and I can imagine that most of the population just bought into it.
Real meat and real food in general is probably still being farmed but it's the equivalent to modern organic food. A semi-expensive investment for people who actually care about that sort of stuff.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by DarthPooky » 2015-08-18 01:58pm

Ok I'm sorry its bin a wile. So we know that replicators use some sort of organic slurry what I'm wondering is in what way is that better than farming. I hope this isn't thread necromancy.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Purple » 2015-08-18 02:00pm

DarthPooky wrote:Ok I'm sorry its bin a wile. So we know that replicators use some sort of organic slurry what I'm wondering is in what way is that better than farming. I hope this isn't thread necromancy.
Think of it this way. How hard is it to farm grain vs truffles? And how hard are both of those in comparison to just farming grass. And now imagine you had a device that can turn grass into truffles.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by WATCH-MAN » 2015-08-19 12:20am

DarthPooky wrote:So we know that replicators use some sort of organic slurry what I'm wondering is in what way is that better than farming.
It's interesting how fast you are reaching the state of knowing - only from a few speculative conclusions.

Especially as we have seen that replicators are able to replicate oganic compunds (food, flowers) as well as anorganic compounds (glass, ceramic, Iron - drinking glasses, cups, bottles, plates, cutlery - or a pocketwatch).

And we have learned that anorganic compounds - as in a pocketwatch - can be recycled into organic compunds - as in a meal.
        • From the Yoyager episode: Year of Hell:
            • JANEWAY:
          I appreciate the sentiment, but I can't keep this. Recycle it. We can't afford to waste energy on nonessentials. [...] That watch represents a meal, a hypospray, or a pair of boots. It could mean the difference between life and death one day.
This begs the question why again are replicators supposed to use some sort of organic slurry.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Borgholio » 2015-08-19 08:28am

The problem with that scene is that breaking apart a pocket watch is not going to reclaim any energy. Given how most of the components in a watch are not radioactive, you would lose more energy breaking the atoms apart than you would get out of them. They would be better off converting the watch into spare parts for the ship using the same elements. I caulked this up as simply bad dialogue.
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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by WATCH-MAN » 2015-08-19 12:05pm

Maybe it is bad dialogue or maybe a replicator works different than you imagine and it does not need more energy breaking the atoms apart than you would get out of them.

Obviously a transporter, when dematerializing something, does not release and handle energy according to e=mc².

Otherwise, a transporter malfunction would vaporize the whole ship, if so much energy is released.

And obviously it is not possible to dematerialize something without materializing it.

Otherwise they wouldn't need matter-anti-matter reactors but would only beam matter in the reactor without materializing it.

And if the replicator is nothing more than advanced transporter technology, it is the same with replicators.

They do not really convert matter into energy - and if than only for a moment for the transport and with a method which does not allow an irrevocable dematerialization.

I imagine it more like a rubber: You need energy to revocably dematerialize something and without this energy the energized matter snaps back into its natural materialized state.

That's how I imagine the transporter to work.

And the replicator is able to change the matter on a subatomar level when it is in its dematerialized state.

The replicator can not change the mass.

It can not add mass or reduce the mass as this would need or release energy equivalent to e=mc².

It can only take a certain amount of mass (relicator raw material) and change it into something with the same mass (a meal, a hypospray, a pair of boots or a pocket watch).

For this it needs only enough energy to revocably dematerialize the matter (relicator raw material) and change it while it is in flux.

Than the energy to keep the matter in flux is terminated and the energized matter will automatically snap back into the matter state and becomes what was impressed into it while in flux.

This proposed explanation allows for transportation and replication without the need to create and handle insane amounts of energy.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Purple » 2015-08-19 08:59pm

Honestly I think you are over thinking this. I firmly believe that the most plausible explanation is that the replicators simply use stocks of existing atoms and perform what amounts to IKEA/LEGO style chemistry combined with what amounts to 3d printing on an atomic scale to get what they need. So if you order a glass of water it'll pick up some oxygen and hydrogen, mix them together and than throw in some carbon hydrates for the plastic cup. This not only explains their need to have raw material but also how they can recycle one thing into another completely different thing. It also ties in neatly with the way transporters are described. Just assume that they scan a person, create a pattern and than transport both that pattern and his atoms into the other ship which than resembles it like a construction set.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.

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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Typhonis 1 » 2015-10-08 05:27am

What if the starships made the raw stock themselves as part of the water/air purification process?

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/r ... upport.php


Green alge cultures with some hydroponics mixed in. Simply have the transporter resequence the stuff. Less power intensive than making it whole cloth.
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Re: Replicaitors and raw food stalk

Post by Borgholio » 2015-10-08 12:19pm

That's pretty much what they did on Voyager. I mean they had to fertilize the plants somehow...
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