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so I was thinking about how things might turn out differently if the enterprise following all good things somehow ended up taking the place of Voyager before generations took place. things may have turned out differently with the caretaker considering it is an entirely different much more experienced crew and also a much larger ship with more resources. The maquis for example may not be as essential to replacing catastrophic loss but Captain Picard it seems slightly more understanding of them then Janeway did in caretaker. The enterprise could separate as well so that families could be sent home in the saucer section. With the enterprises absence how would things turn out in the Alpha Quadrant.
For this scenario, assume that tuvok is replaced by Ro Laren and was in fact truly a spy, and assume corresponding losses among senior staff. Riker dies, Geordi dies, Dr. Crusher and whomever is ln duty in sickbay dies (all of the doctors) the enterprise has an emh mark 1.

I would say the Enterprise would fare much better. Even with several senior officers dead, the rest of the crew would be more experienced and better trained to work as a team than the hodge-podge Voyager / Maquis crew. A larger crew would mean they don't have to depend on fresh recruits or reformed terrorists to fill out key posts. The Galaxy class is far larger and more powerful than the Intrepid class, so there would be fewer issues with hostile races along the way such as the Kazon. They would be packing much more fuel, raw materials, and supplies so they wouldn't have as many problems with endurance. It is also reasonable that they would be able to set up workshops to produce spare parts, equipment, and things like torpedoes which Voyager could not do due to it's small size.

So basically since the Enterprise is designed to be an even longer range and deeper-space explorer than Voyager, it would probably survive much easier during the trip home. The only downside is that the Intrepids are a good deal faster than the Galaxies, but that won't help shorten the trip by THAT much, and the Enterprise won't have to run away from as many fights as Voyager.

In the OP you mention that the saucer section (with the families) could be sent home...why wouldn't they just take the whole ship back?

well it was a plot device that the whole reason Voyager was trapped was because they had to fight off the.Kaizons. I guess the Enterprise D might have been able to just defeat them all and then take its time sending itself back. When I posted this I was thinking more about how subsequent missions would be handled.differently.
so it might have been an option for the star drive section to defend the array while the saucer section was sent back. Or maybe the entire ship has to stay behind. Or like you point it out everybody just goes home. I guess for the purpose of discussion assume that somehow the entire ship has to stay. How would the enterprise crew handle things differently..it was already pointed out that the enterprise would have better production facilities and more supplies and a lot of Voyager early missions were literally scavenging crap and collecting seeds from random planets whereas the enterprise already had an arboretum and could probably convert a deck or two to produce food if they thought they needed it. I don't know how long a Galaxy class starship can cruise without resupply but it is a bigger ship none the less.

the crew integration might be interesting to... Chakotay and picard share an interest in archaeology, picard might feel disposed towards him because.of his family history and.experience with maquis.. he might take an interest in the doctor's emerging humanity, I have no idea what if anything Neelix would do on the enterprise and it would be very interesting to see how picard handled the events that took place in scorpion if they
even for that far

Separate the ship, have the drive section drive off the Kazon, while the saucer section stays with the Array and figures out how to send the entire ship back.

Between LaForge and Data it might have taken time, but they would figure it out.

LaForge is dead in this scenario, remember?

Still, I think the Enterprise can handle this. Its got more power, more resources, and more crew than Voyager. Also, Picard is a very experienced captain and diplomat. And Troi might be able to sense what a liar Neelix is.

Well, let's examine this. Picard is a much better diplomat than Janeway. His initial meeting with the Kazon might end with them forming an alliance, or at least, Picard might be able to get the Kazon on his side, or at least not have Neelix sabotage his initial meeting with them through a hostage negotiation.

Even if things go south with the Kazon, Picard should be able to stop the Kazon fleet cold, and take his sweet time with the Caretaker. if Picard and crew are able to figure it out, then they can open a permanent gateway to the Delta Quadrant, and the UFP gets to deal with a prepared take on the Kazon, Vidians, and other races that the Voyager crew met in the first three seasons.

If A) they destroy the Caretaker array, I could see them having a focus on their first encounter with the Vidians being doing all they can to try and cure the Vidian phage.

If B) they keep the array and arrange a way to contact Starfleet and get home, I could see Picard stationing men from the over a thousand men he has on the ship, making the journey safer and ensuring that there aren't casualties when it happens. Starfleet and the Federation expands into the Delta Quadrant, giving them access to some interesting technologies when their cold war with the Dominion heats up.

In both scenarios, the events of Scorpion are going to be VERY different. Picard, unlike Janeway, hates the Borg with a passion, and will happily let S8472 destroy them. This means the events of First Contact will go VERY different.

As far as destroying the Array is concerned, while Janeway has been criticized for destroying the Array, I think Picard would make the same call, albeit possibly for different reasons. Picard believes in the Prime Directive. The Array's self-destruct was damaged during Voyager's battle with the Kazon, constituting interference. If the same thing happened to Picard, he might feel obligated to mitigate the unintended breach of the Prime Directive. And if it wasn't damaged, he might not keep the Array from self-destructing to avoid interfering.

That said, I'd take Data's skill at operating the Array over that of any scientist or engineer Janeway had with her during Caretaker (Seven might be a match for Data but she's not their).

That's another thing: Picard would be very unlikely to make an alliance with the Borg, meaning Seven probably dies or remains a drone. That sucks.

The Romulan Republic wrote:As far as destroying the Array is concerned, while Janeway has been criticized for destroying the Array, I think Picard would make the same call, albeit possibly for different reasons. Picard believes in the Prime Directive. The Array's self-destruct was damaged during Voyager's battle with the Kazon, constituting interference. If the same thing happened to Picard, he might feel obligated to mitigate the unintended breach of the Prime Directive. And if it wasn't damaged, he might not keep the Array from self-destructing to avoid interfering.

Picard's more the type to explore options and not act rashly. It'd come down to, 'can we insure the destruction of the Array after sending the ship back home?' If not, let's say that the E-D spends a few weeks over Occompa trying to get the Array to work, but failing and the Kazon are sending increasingly stronger waves in shorter intervals that are starting drain the defenses, so there's no choice but to destroy it.

That's another thing: Picard would be very unlikely to make an alliance with the Borg, meaning Seven probably dies or remains a drone. That sucks.

Because of Picard's latent link he'd get the heads up on the Borg's little problem and try in ernest to establish diplomacy with S8472 (that'd come down to circumstance, hopefully the one's they encounter aren't irredeemably xenophobic.)

As far as Seven, out of universe wise that could be a very interesting story arc dynamic. Due to the proximity to Borg space Picard's latent link is able to pick up "Tertiary Adjunct, Unimatrix 01" (it works both ways) and say Picard's attempts at diplomacy with S8472 go like a fart in a space suit, the link would be a more sensible basis for an alliance than Janeway's outright treason. Seven's freed from the collective in a strategic play of betrayal by Picard (taking advantage of their weakened state and his unique insight to destroy the central transwarp hub...of course the E-D gets a travel boost from that.) With Seven on the crew a father/daughter bond could develop between the two (a more wholesome relationship than what Janeway/Seven was and fully fitting TNG's themes and values.)

I wonder if Seven would have more respect for Picard than she had for Janeway because of the whole Locutus thing. At the very least, if she did somehow end up on the Enterprise, she'd have someone who knew a bit about what she was going through if Picard could overcome his hatred of the Borg.

I feel like a permanent connection to the federation using'rray is probably not feasible considering the casualties that it causes, althought adapting might be as simple as warning the crew to brace themselves instead of.. I don't know... making a flying leap accross the bridge and breaking one's neck...

Making the whole trip back in the stardrive section would be interesting, I don't know that it really has much in it except engineering, even the main shuttlebay is gone. The crew might also change someone is it have to go to work everyday in the battle Bridge which has no sign stations and is a strip down no frills version not to mention a constant reminder of the friends they lost. Voyager was brand new when half the crew died Janeway kind of just shrugged it off after a few episodes but Picard knew these people for 7 years. Data would miss Geordi, so would Ro.. Troi would finally have a real job .
Picard's hatred of the borg kind of appeared in first contact. He did not like Hugh at first but got over it and when he was facing the Borgs that were following Lore he definitely wasn't quoting Moby Dick and running around sleeveless.
It is a good point that he may not try to negotiate with the Borg but if I recall scorpion.. They didn't really have a choice. Didn't they kind of just get tractor beamed and then Janeway threatened to blow up the ship if they didn't negotiate? I think they probably still would have entered into some kind of arrangement... But I think the card would have been the one to blow the Borg out the airlock as soon as they stopped taking orders. If 7 still has her grip of death and is the only one that isn't blown away Picard would probably still work with her from there.
I wonder if Paris and Torres would have gotten the same chances they got. Even with Geordi dead the enterprise has more engineers. I don't know that Barclay is up to the task particularly but there has to be somebody better. Paris might get a second chance especially when they resembles Wesley's friend,or that might make Picard even more harsh on him. The enterprise doesn't desperately need a great pilot.

As a matter of fact if Picard handles the Kaizon better, the Maquis might either be sent back or allowed to accompany the enterprise. They might make a good scoutship and Picard could augment their crew with some of his own to keep them in line.

I think things would go much better with the equinox if they were encountered. Ransom would probably respect Picard much more than Janeway and the enterprise has enough resources that it would be harder to decide to continue doing what he is doing.

Janeway actively sought out the Borg in Scorpion to form her little alliance, which forced the crew's hand. I don't think Picard would do that, as he would rather try and avoid the Borg when possible. The more time Picard and crew take to discuss things, the more the Borg lose against Species 8472.

I think that the E-D would be able to eventually repair the array and get back. Reason being that Enterprise has more people in the Science dept alone than Voyager had in her entire crew. The research equipment on a Galaxy Class was designed to be the best in the fleet as well...and there's more of it. Unless, as mentioned before, the Kazon rush the Enterprise with so many ships that they are FORCED to withdraw...they could probably figure it out and use it to either return to Federation space or bring reinforcements through to establish a beach-head.

How many crew did the Galaxy class have? They keep mentioning around 1000, but that includes the families...I think in "Remember Me" the families dissapear and they're left with about 200 odd actual crew.

I vaguely recall 600 crew and 400 odd civilians being the break down but I couldn't tell you the source or canonicality thereof. I don't think anything in Remember Me counts. The warp bubble didn't take all the families first, irrc.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:How many crew did the Galaxy class have? They keep mentioning around 1000, but that includes the families...I think in "Remember Me" the families dissapear and they're left with about 200 odd actual crew.

Is that the one where Beverly gets caught in a pocket universe? If so, EVERYBODY was vanishing, not just the families. By the end, even Data and Picard had vanished. According to Memory Alpha, the Galaxy class had a bit over 1,000 assigned crew. So with families the number of people on board could be double that. Since (also per Memory Alpha) the civilians were allowed to take up science positions even though they weren't members of Starfleet, then we could be talking hundreds of scientists and engineers.

And yet, in Cause and Effect Beverly records the creepy echoes of the voices of everyone aboard...just over 1000.

So...I dunno.

Suffice to say though the E-D would be much more capable than Voyager.

I don't think there's a canonical breakdown but the total population was meant to be about a thousand.

It's an error in Cause and Effect, because you'd think at least a third or half would be asleep at the time, due to shifts - no way all 1000 people were talking all at once. Beverly wasn't for example. Picard was reading to himself...




Anyway, they might not necessarily end up in the Delta Quadrant to begin with - maybe the Enterprise-D's graviton beam would have been enough to break free from the wave thingy in Caretaker. Even if they did, I agree with others, they'd be more likely to repair the array. No doubt the Enterprise-D could withstand the Kazon assault much more easily than Voyager did - might actually do a bit more damage, too.

funny thing is, if it was a galaxy class ship that got stranded, they'd actually have the shuttles needed (Voyager lost 17?) and the ability to create photon torpedoes without the plot holes of Voyager.

And when Q shows up, Picard would probably get him to send the Enterprise back instead of, you know, forgetting to ask.

A thought has just occurred to me.

We know that the transit to the Delta Quadrant really hurt Voyager. We've seen the E-D take less damage and, well, explode. Would the E-D even survive the trip, given the Galaxy-class's known recor for going kaboom?

Of course you might say "of course they'll survive because there's no story otherwise" but it's an interesting question.

Good point. I mean Voyager is the first Federation ship we've ever seen where the warp core ejection system actually worked!

Voyager is also the second TNG era ship know to be able to take decent punishment (up to having relatively large parts on the outer hull missing) and still being useble after repairs) first being the Defiant

I could see the Intrepid-class being a responce to the rather poor safety record of the Galaxy-class.

What if we replaced the E-D with the E-E? Sovereigns are far sturdier than Galaxies so it would be sure to survive the trip, and it would be even more dangerous towards the Kazon. Question is, how does it's science and research capability compare?

AFAIK, a Sovereign's research capability is equal to a Galaxy's, since the SOv's were intended as the next stage up of the Galaxy's, the top-of-the-line explorers. Sure they had a much greater combat capability, but I can't see Starfleet sacrificing scientific capability in it's new flagship. Especially since the Sovereign was designed well before First Contact and (IIRC) before the Dominion showed up.

If we include games, then Bridge Commander showed the Sovereign's to be equally capable; the only reason they needed the Sovereign rather than the Dauntless was because of it's improved shields, I tihnk there was mention of improved sensors as well.

Consider that, in Caretaker, Tuvok (who is not a scientist) is able to figure out how the Array works, sufficiently to send them home, that's with only Voyager's resources available and while fighting off a superior foe. The E-E (or E-D) should be at least as capable as Voyager, with the benefit of actual scientists available, and Data.

The Sovereign would kick ass up and down the Quadrant... if Riker was commanding; Picard would be all too likely to try and talk his way through things, and some alien-of-the-week would be likely to blow himself up out of sheer boredom

OK, seriously: it's a bigger, stronger and more capable ship than the Intrepid. It has enough manpower and resources available that it should be able to endure a lot of stuff that they had to spin out of thin air on Voyager. It's not as big as a Galaxy (I don't think) but it does seem to thus far have a much better safety record...

Eternal_Freedom wrote:A thought has just occurred to me.

We know that the transit to the Delta Quadrant really hurt Voyager. We've seen the E-D take less damage and, well, explode. Would the E-D even survive the trip, given the Galaxy-class's known recor for going kaboom?

Of course you might say "of course they'll survive because there's no story otherwise" but it's an interesting question.

How do you know how damaging it was?

It seems to have knocked inertial dampers offline resulting in a load of dead crew, but the ship seemed quite happy warping around, getting in fights, shields up, weapons firing, sensors working, transporters working etc within an hour or two. The biggest problem was the "warp core micro-fracture" which was only an issue because the chief engineer was dead. Janeway (from the sciences, not engineering) seemed able to fix that in 10 seconds flat.

When Voyager slammed into a planet in Timeless, the bottom few decks compacted into the rest of the ship and the entire crew was killed. When the E-D crashed on Veridian III, no one died, just a bit of smashed "glass".

I wouldn't necessarily say the Ent-D is more fragile than the Intrepid class. It's not a particularly weak design. How often has it actually blown up? Once (or 17 times, depending hehe) in Cause and Effect ? Once in Timeless ? There might be a couple of others but that's all I can think off the top of my head. Did it blow up in that season 2 episode with the two picards?


Cause and Effect
Well, a ship did crash into it v0v

Timeless
Romulans (actually secret aliens) fired directly on their warp core at extremely close range whilst the shields were down and a power transfer was underway

Two Picards
God that was a bad episode. was it a sentient vortex that tried to eat them? I think the original one tore itself apart trying to get away (basically overloaded their engines to escape but overloaded too much).



Any other times were near-misses. And Voyager had enough "hull integrity at 15%" type scenarios as well.