What did Spock Tell the Federation?

[amigocabal]

In Star Trek: Into Darkness, old Spock seemed reluctant to reveal information about the future,although he was willing to tell his counterpart about Khan.

I wonder what he had told the Federation. I would guess that he informed them about the Borg, the Dominion, the wormhole where DS9 would have been located, and the whale probe.

How useful would the information be? The Borg and Dominion are probably where they were in the original timeline. But it would be a century before they contact the Federation, and Spock already knows that history will unfold differently (with Vulcan being destroyed and all). What would the Federation do, assuming that Spock told them about these things? And would Spock have mentioned anything else aside from the Bord, Dominion, and the whale probe?

[Stark]

Why would he tell them those things? What's your rationale? He's shown telling himself or his long-dead best pal things specifically pertinent to their lives. What makes you think he'd be telling them about secret future wormholes or space vampires or whatever?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Given that Q introduced the Borg to the Federation as a means of kicking them out of their complacency, something that won't even begin for almost a century, why would he tell them? There's no point, it's so far off as to be unecessary. Besides, this Federation has already had a kick from an advanced power, in the form of the Narada.

As for the Dominion, they are only a threat due tot he wormhole, which is only discovered (and made safe for passage) by Ben Sisko, and he is only there because his life got ruined by the Borg. Given how much has changed, I would think that chain of events a century int he future is unlikely to be replicated.

[Stark]

Since stupid comics say Narada had Borg weapons, and they were relatively ineffective, the TNG borg probably wouldn't be the threat they were to the lame old Federation anyway.

But the dominion would be a threat the moment Nimoy told the federation about the wormhole; something the OP simply assumes he would do (even though as far as Nimoy knows it was a net-loss for the Federation to know about it). It certainly wouldn't impact on the life of anyone he's personally invested in.

[Flagg]

It could be interesting showing a hyper vigilant starfleet invading and occupying Bajor to find and mine the wormhole before the Dominion can even find it. In a bad comic I mean, not a movie.

[Mr Bean]

It could be interesting showing a hyper vigilant starfleet invading and occupying Bajor to find and mine the wormhole before the Dominion can even find it. In a bad comic I mean, not a movie.

But that could make a good movie if not in that form. What kind of Federation would result if they knew now what they know then about the 1000 aliens of the week, god powers, and external threats that are coming to try and kill the Federation?

You know as in, here's your damn whales leave Earth alone. What if Future Spock did break his oath to save a few billion lives only to end up with the Federation trying to force him to tell all. Now Kirk and co have to break Spock out of jail or maybe old Spock off's himself to prevent this from happening.

There are dozens of interesting ways you could take the premise of a well known time traveler forcing the Federation to act in ways it would not otherwise do. What happens if Romulans take old Spock, or the Klingons or hell have Q show up because the Q don't like the temporal wobble of Spock leaking future information. Or anyone or anything. Who knows.

[Kuja]

The whole deal with Spock refusing to dump info to the nuTrek crew in order to "preserve their destinies" or whatever such nonsense is goddamned stupid.

The fact of the matter is, even if you were to buy into the premise of Trek09 that the arrival of the Narada and the destruction of the Kelvin is the splitting point (it's not, but roll with me people, roll with me) the fact is that the timeline has already been irreversibly polluted.

Vulcan is gone, millions dead. Probably hundreds of Klingons and Federation personnel are dead thanks to Nero's antics in the film. Ships have been carved up that would have otherwise been put to further use. The fact is there's no telling at this point just how badly the future has been altered. Destiny isn't just out the window, it took a flying leap off a tenth-story balcony.

You know as in, here's your damn whales leave Earth alone. What if Future Spock did break his oath to save a few billion lives only to end up with the Federation trying to force him to tell all. Now Kirk and co have to break Spock out of jail or maybe old Spock off's himself to prevent this from happening.

When I saw ST09, I thought it was smart that they used Spock. Because of all ST characters, Spock - you know, the guy who can recognize the sound of a humpback whale from memory and take three aptitude tests at once is probably the one guy you could rely on audiences to trust to reveal just enough to help the Federation over the big speed bumps (incoming cloud, whales, Praxis, etc) without butchering the setting into something unrecognizable. And refuse to drop in more than is absolutely necessary. Then you could send further movies or whatnot in nuTrek off to do all-new stuff.

Hurr, destiny.

[Stark]

Saying 'polluted timeline' makes you look pretty stupid. This Kirk and this Spock have THEIR OWN destinies; they're not 'alternate shatner' and 'alternate nimoy'. Maybe the movie isn't stupid - maybe it's you.

Thinking about it like some kind of timecop is wrong and hilariously limited. It's good to me that they threw OCD fans a bone with people literally saying 'alternative universe' on screen in clunky dialog just for them, just to prevent hysterical heart attacks.

IT DIDNT WORK! They're doing it anyway! Where is the point of diverge?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Where are the borgotrons????????????????

[Kuja]

It seems like you're screaming at me while essentially agreeing with what I'm saying.

This Kirk and this Spock have THEIR OWN destinies; they're not 'alternate shatner' and 'alternate nimoy'.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Why is the plot having oldSpock fold up and sucking himself off to the idea of keeping stuff hidden when he's already thrown a rock through the metaphysical window of the universe? Give ten seconds of time to note how oldSpock's handled the stuff they did already in the old series and let the new guys do their own shit.

[Stark]

Because he's an old man and your looking at it the wrong way? I know you hilariously think I'm 'screaming', but he tells people he cares about important things about their lives. It's called 'drama' that works for the audience because they're outside the text, like Kirk growing up works because we all know what Kirk is 'supposed' to be, but he doesn't.

'Destiny' doesn't mean 'TNG continuity'. I'm not even sure you can prove Nimoy even comes from TNG and not one of a million other universes. Nimoy wants Sylar to live his own life in his own world, and I wish he'd just fucking die already.

I still don't see why he'd tell the Federation about all this other shit.

[Enigma]

My Trek trivia is fuzzy but does Spock even know about the wormhole or how it was discovered?

[Stark]

I bet he just doesn't read the papers - nothing but bad news!

[Gandalf]

My Trek trivia is fuzzy but does Spock even know about the wormhole or how it was discovered?

He lived in the AQ until long after the Dominion War. Presumably the wormhole came up in the news.

[Feil]

Not that any of the old continuity is even still remotely valid, given that NewTrek uses the upper limits of OldTrek's warp speeds as its lower limits and can therefore cross the galaxy in a month or two. Dominion war focused on Bajor? Why bother fighting the whole war over a heavily fortified strategic point, when your fleet can just fly directly between Alpha and Delta in a couple weeks? We've already met the Cardassians, at least enough to name drinks after them in Iowa bars. I wouldn't be half surprised if the Enterprise meets the Borg during their five year mission to explore strange new worlds at a million c, given that they could circumnavigate the entire galaxy about ten times in that time frame.

[Eframepilot]

Given that Q introduced the Borg to the Federation as a means of kicking them out of their complacency, something that won't even begin for almost a century, why would he tell them? There's no point, it's so far off as to be unecessary. Besides, this Federation has already had a kick from an advanced power, in the form of the Narada.

The Borg are the biggest threat in the entire galaxy. They aren't supposed to arrive for a century but remember that they had already destroyed Guinan's homeworld by the time of Star Trek: Generations. With their transwarp capability, they could arrive sooner.

As for the Dominion, they are only a threat due tot he wormhole, which is only discovered (and made safe for passage) by Ben Sisko, and he is only there because his life got ruined by the Borg. Given how much has changed, I would think that chain of events a century int he future is unlikely to be replicated.

Sisko was conceived because his mother was possessed by one of the Prophets. It's pretty much his destiny to find the wormhole.

The Dominion is also a major threat. The writers said that the Dominion had already sent out long-distance scouts and knew about the Federation and other powers on the other side of the galaxy and was preparing for war with them, but the wormhole stepped up their plans.

It seems like you're screaming at me while essentially agreeing with what I'm saying.

This Kirk and this Spock have THEIR OWN destinies; they're not 'alternate shatner' and 'alternate nimoy'.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Why is the plot having oldSpock fold up and sucking himself off to the idea of keeping stuff hidden when he's already thrown a rock through the metaphysical window of the universe? Give ten seconds of time to note how oldSpock's handled the stuff they did already in the old series and let the new guys do their own shit.

I think it's more that Spock doesn't want to say things like, "oh by the way Jim, you end up having a son with Carol Marcus."

[Gandalf]

But it would make sense for him to say things like "There's a ship floating around out there that's full of genetically enhanced supermen. Watch out for that." or "V'Ger/Whale Probe/other are coming, watch out for those too."

It would explain why Marcus went to get Khan.

[Stark]

Why does it make sense? What's his motive? Playing god? An innate need to be cryptic? An old man's need for attention and validation?

[Flagg]

Look, let's be honest, oldSpock was just taking a breather from a seven month sex marathon (for logic) when he responded to nuSpock. I guess what I'm getting at is that he doesn't tell them jack or shit.

[Havok]

I said that in my "review". He is there to roll his eyes knowingly with the audience at the mention of Khan. Spock is the audience that knows this isn't "Star Trek" personified.

[Gandalf]

Why does it make sense? What's his motive? Playing god? An innate need to be cryptic? An old man's need for attention and validation?

Presumably an attempt to save some lives.

[Stark]

Case fucking closed then; complete failure, was a bad idea, would have been better keeping his mouth shut. If he is how Marcus found out about the Botany Bay (pffft) then his attempt to save some lives massively backfired.

This is why Spock is smarter than fans.

[FaxModem1]

Actually no. In the film, Starfleet scoured their space seeking any advantage they could find and found the Botany Bay BECAUSE Spock stayed tightlipped and didn't tell them anything. It's because of Spock's silence that the events of Into Darkness happened.

[Stark]

Since events were so different, what makes you think saying anything would have mattered? Does he have a stochastic mind that allows him to see lines through the pattern of infinity?

Maybe he should have become a Vulcan Ninja and killed Admiral Marcus in his role and international man of mystery?! And then say 'go kill the borg with your hilariously overpowered ships OH SHIT THE BORG ARE NOTHING LIKE I REMEMBER BECAUSE ITS A FUCKING REBOOT SORRY GUYS WHY ARE YOU ALL ROBOTS NOW'?

[FaxModem1]

Because letting them know, that say, a colony ship full of psychotic supermen on ice would be a good idea? He can't tell them what will happen with definite certainty, of course, because with Vulcan's destruction, everything is in the air. But he can tell them that there are certain things they need to deal with, or be aware of, to try and minimize casualties as compared to staying quiet, which does nothing but put the burden of every death since Nero on Spock's shoulders since he didn't even try to warn them because: 'destiny'. The federation already lost a fleet and planet it had in the original timeline. There is no way to go back to the original way things were. There is no point in having non-interference due to worries about future repercussions, as the damage has already been done. If say, a Klingon-Federation war develops, or V'ger decides to come a-knocking, a space amoeba attacks, or whatever, Starfleet can at least try what happened in the original timeline, and if it doesn't work because of other universe wackiness, they at least won't be going in completely blind.

To sum up, this way Spock isn't a complete asshole.

[Stark]

Dude, it was Gandalf's suggestion that Spock should 'warn' the Federation about the Botany Bay. I don't think he should do anything (well, except fuck off and die and stop polluting the reboot). Saying everything that happens after he arrives is somehow his responsibility is pretty crazy. I know this might be hard to accept, but the new Trek is not the past of old Trek slightly changed by Nero. Khan didn't even fucking LOOK the same. Why should he believe a) anything he knows would be accurate or b) think anything he knows would be helpful? Might as well say 'why didn't he use the information on his ship's computer to teach the Federation about the fanfiction old continuity'.