A question about Trekkie Physics: ST: Generations

[DieselJester]

I'm by no means a physics major, I took just my requisite one class in High School and College, but Dr. Soran's whole approach has me scratching my head ever since I watched ST: Generations again the other day...

Soran destroys the Amargosa and Veridian stars in order to alter the path of the Nexus so that he can enter it.

As Data put it in Stellar Cartography; The destruction of the Amargosa Star has altered the gravitational forces in the entire sector, and that the destruction of that star alters the course of the Nexus. Ok. So then we fast forward ahead to Veridian III and Soran's weapon destroys the star, altering the course of the nexus again so that he and Picard wind up getting sucked in.

It seems to me that the path of the Nexus would not be altered until after the effect of the Veridian Star collapsing (and producing the subsequent shock wave which destroys the planets in the system). Yet we see the nexus being altered into the planet so that Soran can enter it before the shock wave hits and destroys the planet. I would think that maybe the shock wave would have to divert the nexus first for the gravitational change to then take effect (thus destroying the planet and killing Soran first).

So am I missing something here? Or did the writers of Generations get it right?

[Prometheus Unbound]

Going purely off "today's" physics, Gravity propagates at the speed of light.

In the SC room, they zoomed in and it was only missing the planet by about a small distance - Picard asked Data to simulate what would happen if the star was destroyed - it shifted what looks to be maybe a couple of million km.

It seemed only minutes between the destruction of the star and the Nexus appearing - it arrived before the shockwave did.

It seems to me, setting aside the shockwave that would blow up the planet, it was a bit "late" to blow up - it should have been blown up several hours before, for the wave to shift that far in such a short distance but whatever. It was travelling faster than light anyway (or does sometimes, for it to go from near Earth to Veridian 3 in 70 years) and something something Subspace when stars go Nova so who knows.

"no" it's not accurate

[DieselJester]

Figured as much. Even though Scotty says that "Ye canna change the laws of Physics", it seems like the Trek writers do it on a regular basis.

[tim31]

The nexus event itself is inconsistent; travelling at FTL speeds between systems and slowing down as it approaches a planet. Probably the same phenomenon that affected Moonbase Alpha.

[Baffalo]

Note: I have a massive headache so if I don't make sense, I'm sorry, just roll with it.



From the looks of things, there are 7 major gravitational bodies in the system (1 star, 6 planets).

As far as I'm willing to wager, I'd almost say the entire Nexus makes the normal rules of time and space a bit wonky, since the star seemingly explodes within a few seconds of the missile's launch. Even if the planet was closer than Earth to its parent star, it should still take a few minutes to be seen, and the shockwave would be right behind it.

There's also the matter that even if the star sheds most of its mass, that mass will still be in a fairly localized spot. The shockwave must spread out to send that mass away, so it's spreading but still within the system. Sure, some of that mass will be spread out so far that it won't have the same effect, but the mass of those planets is still going to affect the Nexus more at close range than the star itself.

All I can think is that the Nexus just picks and chooses what laws to obey, and the rest it just tosses out as being too inconvenient.

[Eternal_Freedom]

While there are 6 major bodies in that system only the star is going to be a major one. Consider, in our system of 8 planets the Sun is 99% of the system's mass.

And since the trilithium whatever was said to "stop all fusion in a star" there's no mass scattering. Heck, if that's a solar type star and you stop all fusion dead it will collapse into a white dwarf pretty damn quick, shouldn't be a shockwave, certainly not one that can shatter planets at ~1 AU or so.

I like to think that the Nexus is the result of the St universe God being on an acid trip.

[TOSDOC]

So am I missing something here? Or did the writers of Generations get it right?

Please, they couldn't even get the rocket to the star depicted right. It takes light fucking minutes to reach a planet from a star (a little over 8 minutes to reach ours), not seconds, yet there's nothing resembling warp engines on Soran's rocket. Then it takes off like a chemical rocket when it should have just disappeared into warp. As far as the story was concerned there were no more ships that could have shot it down, so I don't know what the big hurry was all about. I'd already run out of penalty flags to throw at the TV before the shockwave hit.

[DesertFly]

Of course the big flaw in the movie is why Soran needed to spend all this time and energy blowing up stars to alter the course of the Nexus when he could have just flown a spaceship into its path. Perhaps that was addressed in the movie, but I don't recall a good explanation from the couple of times I've seen it, and I am in no hurry to watch it again.

[Batman]

Well the two ships we saw the Nexus run over sort of got blown up, and there's no indication-either way-whether or not somebody got sucked into the Nexus on that occasion. Maybe Soren figured he needed the greater inherent resilience of a planet or something. Not that they ever bothered to tell us anything like that (or give any other explanation, at that).

[Prometheus Unbound]

Please, they couldn't even get the rocket to the star depicted right. It takes light fucking minutes to reach a planet from a star (a little over 8 minutes to reach ours), not seconds, yet there's nothing resembling warp engines on Soran's rocket. Then it takes off like a chemical rocket when it should have just disappeared into warp

The only thing I can think of that would make any sense here is the following:

The rocket / missile is of a similar size as the one encountered by Voyager in the episode where it has an AI and takes over the Doctor - the WMD which was intent on reaching its target no matter what, but had a change of heart, committed suicide and took out the other missiles (not the Dreadnaught episode btw). That missile had no nacelles.

That missile had warp drive, with speeds comparable to Voyager.

Federation photon torpedoes can move at warp (even if they can't accelerate to warp, they can sustain warp speed if launched from a vessel in warp.

With all that in mind, it's possible Soren's missile was warp capable - or at least, it's not impossible and there is past precedent in the setting and timeline.

Now, setting aside everything else, if we assume it did go to warp (and really, it must have - Worf said it would take about 15 seconds or something to reach the star - there's no other way it could do that unless it was FTL) then (and here's where it gets stupid), imagine a warp tunnel, a "wake", if you will - which the missile generated from the planet to the star. If this "FTL Tunnel" was still dissipating , but still there, then Picard would have been looking directly down that tunnel to the star - perhaps light from the other side (the star going dark) went back through the tunnel and that's why we saw it get dark so quickly?

I'm going to go stand in the corner with my face to the wall.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Of course the big flaw in the movie is why Soran needed to spend all this time and energy blowing up stars to alter the course of the Nexus when he could have just flown a spaceship into its path. Perhaps that was addressed in the movie, but I don't recall a good explanation from the couple of times I've seen it, and I am in no hurry to watch it again.

Picard: Why doesn't he just fly into it with a ship?
Data: Our records indicate every ship which has approached the ribbon has either been destroyed or severely damaged.
Picard: He can't get to the ribbon so he's trying to make the ribbon come to him!



Just beam into it or sit in its path in a spacesu... oh whatever.

[Baffalo]

I'm actually surprised that, given the size of the Nexus, that it didn't also collect the entire crew of the Enterprise. Imagine this ending: The entire crew of the Enterprise, joined together in the Nexus. Captain Picard wants to return to stop Soren, but some of the crew... some of the crew want to stay. They want to be safe, to stay with their families, because some died during the crash. Picard insists, but he has no power here. He has to respect the wishes of those who want to stay. So he gathers up those who will come, returns to the Enterprise before the attack by the Duras sisters, and they save the day. But the Ent-D is too badly damaged, and just like the Orig-Ent, is retired. But with Picard and Riker looking out over the shipyard as the Ent-D is dismantled, an admiral approaches and tells Picard they have a new assignment for him... one he might like.

[Batman]

Well there is this pesky starships blowing up on short notice upon contact with the Nexus issue, which in all likelihood would have done in the E-D too before anybody got Nexused, otherwise we're back to asking 'Why didn't Soren just sit in the path of the Nexus in a spacesuit/shuttle/starship?'

[Baffalo]

Well there is this pesky starships blowing up on short notice upon contact with the Nexus issue, which in all likelihood would have done in the E-D too before anybody got Nexused, otherwise we're back to asking 'Why didn't Soren just sit in the path of the Nexus in a spacesuit/shuttle/starship?'

Guinen. Specifically, why was Guinen an 'echo' inside the Nexus at all? The only exposure she had was when she was beamed aboard, same as Sauren. The way the script describes it to us, a shuttle with an open door and a forcefield that drops just inside the Nexus would be all Sauron needs.

Hell, put that way, was Kirk actually still down in the area when the bolt of lightning hit? Or was he actually on that landing Chekov and Scotty and Cameron were standing, and just exposed to the Nexus long enough to yank him away? Because if he was in that area destroyed by the lightning, then everyone, and I mean everyone, on that ship that was destroyed is actually inside the Nexus. So once more... yeah.

[aussiemuscle308]

by Eternal_Freedom
I like to think that the Nexus is the result of the St universe God being on an acid trip.

The Nexus is God's Chariot!

by Baffalo
I'm actually surprised that, given the size of the Nexus, that it didn't also collect the entire crew of the Enterprise. Imagine this ending: The entire crew of the Enterprise, joined together in the Nexus.

I'm pretty sure Picard never actually left the Nexus. Everything after Generations is a fantasy world created in his mind.

by Baffalo
a forcefield that drops just inside the Nexus would be all Sauron needs.

**insert LOTR joke here**

[Borgholio]

Holy Necro, Batman!

[NecronLord]

Quite.