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The Romulan Republic wrote:Interesting glimpse of the Klingons indeed. I kind of hope we see more of them in this reality.

Here is a previous scene (F/X uncompleted) showing the Narada being intercepted by Klingon vessels.

Skylon wrote:I'd prefer this to Khan. Re-treading on ground covered by "Wrath of Khan" seems like a bad move at this stage in the game.

Why the fuck would it be rehash of Wrath of Khan?
WoK takes place 20 years after the episode that introduced him. ST'09 takes place in 2258 which is 7 years before Kirk is supposed to have taken control of the TOS Enterprise in 2265, which mean the possibility of stumbling upon the Botany Bay and Khan in suspended animation in 2267 are pretty much impossible as 5 year missions don't last 9 years.

IF they decided to introduce Khan, it would have to be a completely different set of events and a completely different story from ground up.

Oh and P.S. http://www.deadline.com/2011/11/star-tr ... y-17-2013/
Won't be released until 2013.

I think what he means is that Wrath of Khan was the second TOS movie and it focused on Khan. Star Trek '13 is going to be the sequel to Star Trek '09, and if it has Khan as the main villain then it could be construed as 'retreading' ground that was already covered.

In other words, I suspect he means 'Space Seed Mark 2' rather than 'Wrath of Khan'.

But either way, I don't think they should go with Khan, I'd rather see what they make of the klingons. Or hell, something new and different even.

Yeah, lets not do any retread stories... OH HEY LETS DO THE KLINGONS!

Huh?

I'm making fun of you.

I'm all for Klingons, or Romulans. Hell, even tribbles or Khan, because those are staples of Star Trek. What makes Star Trek Star Trek. Everyone knows what they are, what they look like, what they represent.

I think a Khan story, Space Seed or WoK, inspired is retarded at this point, as you do. That doesn't mean that I think that one shouldn't be done.

Something "new"? Not so sure. They tried something "new" in Voyager and Enterprise and we got the Xindi and the Kazon. They tried something new in Insurrection. *shudders*

I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of NEW here. You're talking about the movie version of a show produced in the 60's in which the enemies are pretty much set in stone as far as the Trek community is concerned. Now, yes, Khan was the second movie made, and the Klingons and Romulans were both pretty standard bad guys. But remember, they did the Romulans last movie, so you have to go with an enemy you haven't showcased yet, meaning either Khan or the Klingons. The reason you have to use one of those two (or possibly another well-known enemy) is because both have something special: cultural significance. People still reference the KHAAAAAAN! Kirk did. Of course, they also know of Chekov's "Nuclear Wessels", but they're not going that route I don't imagine. People also know about the Klingons from both TOS and TNG. So if you're aiming for a wider audience than just the Trekkies (which you must do to make money), then you're going to select something people will be curious about and want to see.

The only reason they'd go with a NEW enemy that hasn't been seen before is if they think they can get it to work. Remember, the Romulans seen in the first movie were pretty solid enemies and they had a good script. So if they do something new, it has to bring that element of kicking serious ass and not just being "We're scared of doing Klingons so please accept this generalized concept of evil".

Enigma wrote:Why do I get the feeling that Del Toro will play a Klingon character?

You are not alone. The dark skin, the intimidating height, and previous experience playing a predator (The Wolf Man) all work in his favor.

What I'm really curious about, is that, after Nero fucked with the timeline and made Romulus a PRIORITY TARGET: EXTREME THREAT to the other Alpha-Beta Quadrant powers, if the Klingons will remain enemies of the Federation, become allies, or play "Red China" and sit out a Romulan-Federation war.

Sidewinder wrote:

Enigma wrote:Why do I get the feeling that Del Toro will play a Klingon character?

You are not alone. The dark skin, the intimidating height, and previous experience playing a predator (The Wolf Man) all work in his favor.

What I'm really curious about, is that, after Nero fucked with the timeline and made Romulus a PRIORITY TARGET: EXTREME THREAT to the other Alpha-Beta Quadrant powers, if the Klingons will remain enemies of the Federation, become allies, or play "Red China" and sit out a Romulan-Federation war.

Not if the elder Spock can smooth things over between them.

Enigma wrote:Not if the elder Spock can smooth things over between them.

What if the Klingons decide to do something unusual for them and try to instigate the war? Maybe steal a Federation ship and send it at the Romulans. That'd be interesting. But if a real predator type character like Del Toro comes in, they might go for a real militant but very sly Klingon Empire that will use brains, not mindless "let's throw ships at them and hope to win"

Enigma wrote:Not if the elder Spock can smooth things over between them.

After a Romulan fanatic blew up a major Federation member world, killed BILLIONS of people, and decimated Starfleet? I doubt anyone in the Federation will feel very pacifistic towards the Romulan Star Empire. As for Spock Prime, well, what credibility does he have in EITHER power's government?

Baffalo wrote:But if a real predator type character like Del Toro comes in, they might go for a real militant but very sly Klingon Empire that will use brains, not mindless "let's throw ships at them and hope to win"

Hopefully, the whole Augment virus bullshit from Enterprise will be ditched in favor of fusions (genetically engineered hybrids the Klingons created, to better understand their enemies).

Baffalo wrote:

Enigma wrote:Not if the elder Spock can smooth things over between them.

What if the Klingons decide to do something unusual for them and try to instigate the war? Maybe steal a Federation ship and send it at the Romulans. That'd be interesting. But if a real predator type character like Del Toro comes in, they might go for a real militant but very sly Klingon Empire that will use brains, not mindless "let's throw ships at them and hope to win"

Not if they stick the the "honor code". They would consider that too cowardly.

Sidewinder wrote:

Enigma wrote:Not if the elder Spock can smooth things over between them.

After a Romulan fanatic blew up a major Federation member world, killed BILLIONS of people, and decimated Starfleet? I doubt anyone in the Federation will feel very pacifistic towards the Romulan Star Empire. As for Spock Prime, well, what credibility does he have in EITHER power's government?

Baffalo wrote:But if a real predator type character like Del Toro comes in, they might go for a real militant but very sly Klingon Empire that will use brains, not mindless "let's throw ships at them and hope to win"

Hopefully, the whole Augment virus bullshit from Enterprise will be ditched in favor of fusions (genetically engineered hybrids the Klingons created, to better understand their enemies).

Why would Starfleet be angry with the Romulans since they knew it wasn't really them but a rogue Romulan from a different timeline? I'm quite sure that Spock Prime will see this as another chance to smooth things over between two powers.

If anything the Klingons would be more pissed: they lost 39 warbirds and don't know the Romulan ship was from the future.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:If anything the Klingons would be more pissed: they lost 39 warbirds and don't know the Romulan ship was from the future.

I can see a Klingon - Romulan war than a Romulan - Federation war.

I was thinking more a Klingon-Romulan war with the Federation dragged into it when they send Enterprise to try and negotiate a settlement.

I suspect everyone here is putting far more thought into this than the writers did with the last Star Trek film, and probably more than they will put into the next Trek film. Seriously, did anyone think when we heard Trek 09 was going to be a reboot that the plot would consist of 'Romulan mining ship travels back in time, kills Kirk's dad, gets captured for the next twenty or so years and then escapes and uses magical plot goo to destroy Vulcan'?

Because ... that wasn't my first thought for what they'd go with. If I had to make a prediction about the next Trek film it would be that none of us will be able to remotely predict the plot of it.

While I agree we have no idea what they're ultimately going to do (though something involving Klingons is a decent guess), I hope they'll put some thought into it and at least make the story less implausible and contrived this time.

Revy wrote:I suspect everyone here is putting far more thought into this than the writers did with the last Star Trek film, and probably more than they will put into the next Trek film. Seriously, did anyone think when we heard Trek 09 was going to be a reboot that the plot would consist of 'Romulan mining ship travels back in time, kills Kirk's dad, gets captured for the next twenty or so years and then escapes and uses magical plot goo to destroy Vulcan'?

Because ... that wasn't my first thought for what they'd go with. If I had to make a prediction about the next Trek film it would be that none of us will be able to remotely predict the plot of it.

That was a completely blank slate.

However you didn't even have to predict "CREW OF THE ENTERPRISE SAVES THE DAY!".

They have to do that again, or at least build towards it in a third movie.

There is a set of logical assumptions and rules that exist now that one would hope that the writers would follow up.

1: A Romulan ship wiped out an entire Klingon fleet and the Klingons are gonna be pissed.
2: The Romulans have no clue what has been going on, or that the Klingons are pissed at them.
3: Spock is in the timeline and has no qualms about helping out his old friends and crew or the Federation.
4: The entire time frame of events have been completely altered and nothing that happened in TOS, TNG, DS9 or VOY can ever possibly happen.

Based on #1: The Klingons may attack the Romulan empire.

Based on #2: The Romulans will probably not be at all prepared and the reason Nero went back in time, to save the Romulans, may end up being a moot point.

Based on #3: Spock could give his genetic cousins a heads up and will probably use reunification as a way to prop up the Vulcan people and keep them from the brink of extinction. This means information and technology exchanges and advancements. Not just for the Vulcans, but the Federation as well to protect the remaining Vulcans.

Based on #4: This is the big one... No Kitamer, (sp?) no Borg, no Dominion, no Space Seed, no Trouble with Tribbles, no anything that has ever happened in the original timeline. Literally nothing that involved TOS crew, with the exception of anything that was not stumbled on, discovered, or initiated by them, such as the Whale Probe from STIV, V-Ger from STI, etc., and these are all things that Spock will most certainly brief Starfleet on as he would know that there is no way to predict where the crew of the Enterprise will be now that it's 5 year mission, has started much sooner.

Here's an interesting thought...

I think it is obvious that the timeline was already altered when Spock and the Narada encountered Kirk Sr's ship. This could be accounted for by TOS crew never going back in time to snatch the whales and taking that doctor back with them. Don't think that is feasible? Look what happened in The City on the Edge of Forever when one woman was saved.

There are a ton more that I could spend a week talking about, but the thing is, everything is a blank slate and everything can be different now. There are no rules of continuity to follow, which is good as it will allow new fans to watch without being bogged down in ST lore and if they do decide to make a little tip of the hat to original events it will be a fun nod to the die hard fans.

Kirk: "Why do we have to have this old radio hooked up Spock?"
Spock: "My counterpart said it would be a good idea based on his experience."
McCoy: "Is that why we had to go get those damned whales?"

I simply don't understand why continuity is a bad thing. Continuity lockout is a bad thing, but it's not the same thing.

You want a blank slate, write a new universe.

As to the pre-timetravel changes, it looks fairly clear that what we saw wasn't time travel as we know it in Trek. We've gone to a completely different, but superficially similar universe and are futzing around there. This whole red matter nonsense was just an excuse to go there and pretend we're still in the same place. Why we needed to pretend we're still in the same place is another question entirely.