Re: Phaser Turrets vs Strips
Posted: 2016-07-17 12:03pm
It's more like connecting your keyboard with a overhead power line or overhead line.
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It is only stupid if they have other options to handle their power requirements, and dont take those options.Prometheus Unbound wrote:Then it's like plugging my keyboard direct into the wall and the house being struck my lightning and me getting blown up.
That's a really stupid design. I appreciate they may need large amounts of power conduits to have things like forcefields and structural integrity but why does that run through the consoles? It's not normally the wall that explodes behind it - helm consoles spontaneously ignite and throw *rocks* at people.
How many exploding consoles were there in TNG actually? I don't remember a *lot* until after the episode with the Enterprise-C, which is what really, ahem, set it off.Borgholio wrote:IIRC, the whole exploding console brain bug started in Star Trek 2, when Savvik was running the Kobyashi Maru simulation, and it appeared that consoles were exploding and killing the crew when the ship got hit. I always figured those were simple pyrotechnics meant to simulate damage and casualties, but it morphed into actual exploding consoles killing people when TNG came out.
Thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comme ... s_without/(Interior of USS Enterprise, the bridge crew looks tense. Frantic action of extras)
CUT TO PICARD: FIRE!
(Exterior shot. Phasers leap from the saucer section and explode against hull of Borg cube. The Borg cube is undamaged. Green phaser fire shoots from the corner of the cube, hitting the Enterprise near the bridge)
CUT TO INTERIOR SHOT OF ENTERPRISE BRIDGE:
(The ship doesn't move as the intertial dampeners actually work this time. Picard nods in grim defiance.)
WORF: Shields are down 25%
(The view screen shows another shot headed toward the bridge from the cube. CUT TO ENGINEERING STATION: Screen flickers and then the LCARS panel goes off like an old tube tv, leaving a little glowing light artifact circle that fades out)
Engineering Officer: AW SHIT! We tripped a breaker.
(Bridge crew turns to look at station, groans, murmurs of frustration emanate from the crew)
Engineering Officer: Does anyone know where the breaker box is?
Worf: Check the laundry room.
(Engineer officer darts out to flip breaker. Bridge crew turns back to the fight. The Enterprise darts nimbly around the cube, never keeping one side to the Borg to preserve shields, Engineering Officer pokes head around back wall of the Bridge)
Engineering Officer: Try it again.
(Data holds down power switch underneath the console)
Data: The panel is non functional
(Engineer disappears again, clicking and rummaging is heard out of shot. Data sits patiently, notices smudge on panel, beathes onto panel and wipes it with sleeve)
(From off of camera) Engineering Officer: We blew a fuse, damn it. Where do you guys keep the fuses?
(Without looking back) Riker: Check the drawer by the stove.
(From off camera) Engineer: Awww man. All we got are these blue ones. The one we blew was a red one.
Riker: Deanna, didn't I tell you to get some fuses when you went to the store?
(Troy rolls her eyes in exasperation and sighs) Troi: Goddamn it, Will, you know I'm a damn psychologist right? What do I know about fucking fuses and stuff. That's why we hired Geordi right? I told you to hire a handyman, and you keep asking me to do this stuff.
(Riker obviously frustrated and feeling attacked) Riker: Deanna, not now, we'll talk about this later.
Picard: Look, someone just fix the damn fuse. Swap the one from the garage until we can get to Home Depot.
(From off screen) Engineer: Got it!
(Data pushes the ON button. A Federation symbol appears on screen and a green progress bar rolls by. Finally the screen goes black and then the screen goes to a pleasant background image of a rolling green hill on Risa with a ringed moon behind it, a pop-up appears.)
Data: It is asking for the admin password.
It's extremely odd, since IIRC we don't see any consoles exploding/sparking during the actual combat, with the possible exception of the trainee manning the weapons console having a burnt face after Reliant's initial attack.Borgholio wrote:IIRC, the whole exploding console brain bug started in Star Trek 2, when Savvik was running the Kobyashi Maru simulation, and it appeared that consoles were exploding and killing the crew when the ship got hit. I always figured those were simple pyrotechnics meant to simulate damage and casualties, but it morphed into actual exploding consoles killing people when TNG came out.
There is one thing to consider that I just thought about. Now we only see this once, so I don't know if this was a special setup or not...but in Voyager's "Year of Hell", Tuvok is blinded when an enemy torpedo hits the ship. He still functions as Tactical Officer because his console has a "tactile interface". So if the consoles are more than just glorified Ipads, that could certainly increase their power draw...but electricity should still be more than sufficient as a power source.Batman wrote:The problem with the exploding console is, I think, that it makes NO SENSE given our current understanding of engineering/electrical systems. There's nothing the console needs high energy plasma FOR, everything it does should be easily doable via electricity, and not all that much of it. A phaser emitter or deflector generator blowing up is one thing, but why should a bridge console have that much power running through it?
These two options are pretty much what I have been getting at, you just said it better.Simon_Jester wrote:2) The console itself isn't actually exploding, but something behind it is, something which actually needs to run near the bridge (say, a power line running to a shield generator that normally protects the bridge). In other words, the problem isn't the console, the problem is a totally unrelated high voltage power line that happens to be near the console.
3) The explosion of the console may be a result of some other, seemingly unrelated battle damage. The damage to the ship's overall electrical grid then causes an excessive amount of energy to 'short out' through the console, which is not normally designed to use such a large amount of energy. It seems likely that the floors and walls of the bridge are insulated against random electrical current from the power grid, but it may not be possible to electrically isolate the computer network from the main power grid well enough to fully withstand battle damage.
as people have point (myself included) they might actually not be running the consoles directly with plasma conduits but rather there's high power systems in or near the bridge module (for example shield generators) and the consoles are the "path of least resistance" when the conduits burst, remember that conduits don't so much explode as burst like a water hose that's damaged.Elheru Aran wrote:The plasma thing is still fricking dumb. You're basically running your computers off a high explosive? Something like that.
The fact of the matter is that they're using a highly dangerous method of computing, which is largely unnecessary for what they're doing, which means that frequently they're more or less literally exploding themselves in the foot.
I can accept that the main computer of the ship may require such technology... in which case, insulate it strictly from the rest of the ship by layers of armour; the main computer should be well protected anyway. But simple piloting and weapons commands? No. You don't need a plasma conduit to tell the ship 'shoot a torpedo at this target'.
But that wouldn't be gee-whiz, now would it...
Still an example of terrible engineering. I get the existence of high power systems, but if they're *designed* to explode-- and after a few blown consoles they should damn well know what's going on-- they should explode *away* from the bridge. Shield generator protecting the bridge pops? Fine, have an explosion on the hull near the bridge... but people in the bridge shouldn't be having the equivalent of a hand grenade going off in their faces.Lord Revan wrote:as people have point (myself included) they might actually not be running the consoles directly with plasma conduits but rather there's high power systems in or near the bridge module (for example shield generators) and the consoles are the "path of least resistance" when the conduits burst, remember that conduits don't so much explode as burst like a water hose that's damaged.Elheru Aran wrote:The plasma thing is still fricking dumb. You're basically running your computers off a high explosive? Something like that.
The fact of the matter is that they're using a highly dangerous method of computing, which is largely unnecessary for what they're doing, which means that frequently they're more or less literally exploding themselves in the foot.
I can accept that the main computer of the ship may require such technology... in which case, insulate it strictly from the rest of the ship by layers of armour; the main computer should be well protected anyway. But simple piloting and weapons commands? No. You don't need a plasma conduit to tell the ship 'shoot a torpedo at this target'.
But that wouldn't be gee-whiz, now would it...
We already do this with tanks and armored vehicles. Any shell hit that penetrates the magazine will tend to explode outside the back of the tank instead of inside where it will turn the crew into chunky salsa. It's just good design practice. But I guess that goes right along with hull armor, having a bridge exposed on deck 1, and windows large enough to potentially decompress a whole deck in minutes as designs that they just didn't feel were worth it for some reason.Still an example of terrible engineering. I get the existence of high power systems, but if they're *designed* to explode-- and after a few blown consoles they should damn well know what's going on-- they should explode *away* from the bridge. Shield generator protecting the bridge pops? Fine, have an explosion on the hull near the bridge... but people in the bridge shouldn't be having the equivalent of a hand grenade going off in their faces.
I get the whole gee-whiz-this-looks-cool angle, okay. But just... put some goddamn thought into it.Borgholio wrote:We already do this with tanks and armored vehicles. Any shell hit that penetrates the magazine will tend to explode outside the back of the tank instead of inside where it will turn the crew into chunky salsa. It's just good design practice. But I guess that goes right along with hull armor, having a bridge exposed on deck 1, and windows large enough to potentially decompress a whole deck in minutes as designs that they just didn't feel were worth it for some reason.Still an example of terrible engineering. I get the existence of high power systems, but if they're *designed* to explode-- and after a few blown consoles they should damn well know what's going on-- they should explode *away* from the bridge. Shield generator protecting the bridge pops? Fine, have an explosion on the hull near the bridge... but people in the bridge shouldn't be having the equivalent of a hand grenade going off in their faces.
You get the idea.Bridge view. Klingon Bird of Prey firing torpedoes directly at prow of starship. Bridge shudders and the large viewscreen in front goes dead.
PICARD: Damn it! Do we have secondary cameras?
DATA: Pulling it up, sir.
PICARD: Sensors! Do we have a fix on that Bird of Prey?
WORF: Readings are vague... it's running on low energy... I have a signal at 239 mark 95!
Viewscreen comes back on, flickering, off colour, but we can see the Bird of Prey starting to cloak off to the side as another zooms across the screen
RIKER: Lock torpedoes and fire!
WORF: Firing now, alpha spread!
Exterior view, torpedoes launch from starship. Off to the side of the bridge, another ship decloaks and fires.
Bridge shakes, Worf is thrown from his position, viewscreen dies again. When shaking stops, Picard stands and snaps:
PICARD: Ensign! Man the shutter release!
Ensign Goldshirt runs across the rear deck of bridge, opens wall panel, pulls out lever and starts jacking energetically. Mechanical shutters start opening slowly around bridge. Riker stands, as do Worf and Data, and they start looking out in different directions as Worf steps over to his station.
RIKER: There! Starboard, twenty degrees above our horizon!
We see a Bird of Prey slowly turning towards our heroes while the other two, in formation, warp away
PICARD: Worf, can you manually lock on?
WORF: Working...
RIKER: Data, man your station and stand by to fire second salvo. Ensign, keep your eyeballs in front!
PICARD: Fire when ready, Mr. Worf!
And we can do that in the 21st century in a tiny metal box. Federation starships sometimes have entire decks that are empty. There's loads of room available, even on an Intrepid class ship.Borgholio wrote:We already do this with tanks and armored vehicles. Any shell hit that penetrates the magazine will tend to explode outside the back of the tank instead of inside where it will turn the crew into chunky salsa. It's just good design practice.Still an example of terrible engineering. I get the existence of high power systems, but if they're *designed* to explode-- and after a few blown consoles they should damn well know what's going on-- they should explode *away* from the bridge. Shield generator protecting the bridge pops? Fine, have an explosion on the hull near the bridge... but people in the bridge shouldn't be having the equivalent of a hand grenade going off in their faces.
The viewscreen in ST:FC was a holographic one ... I think that's the closest they got.Elheru Aran wrote: Big windows? Make it a *holograph*, cause that's kind of awesome, and if you have an emergency failure of the cameras capturing exterior views, well then have someone turn a crank to open the shutters, which can be a dramatic moment in and of itself.
I'll get myself started. Sorry, I can't edit the post any more (tried to and had to re-write / edit the below) and it seems pointless to start a new thread on it tbh. Someone on Reddit asked:Prometheus Unbound wrote: Don't even get me fucking started on the lighting systems they have on the bridge.