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tezunegari wrote: ↑2018-01-14 08:47am And they couldn't just add this into the episode?
Lorca: "Another Starfleet vessel. The U.S.S. Defiant. And yes, that's the Defiant. Modified over the hundred years it's been here."
Saru: "How is that possible? At last review, the Defiant was patrolling sector six in hour universe."

There. A singel sentence. No drama about why it looks different.

Because the writers are incompetent hacks.

End of the fking world.

And in the context of Discovery, it looks stupid. But ya see, you can have a Connie old style mash with the new style.

I actually like the design in itself and as a possible sister class to the Constitution (Chesapeake class? if you go with the first frigates of the US). But not as replacement of the ICONIC look of the Constitution.

Yeah, the writers are hack.

tezunegari wrote: ↑2018-01-14 12:56pm I actually like the design in itself and as a possible sister class to the Constitution (Chesapeake class? if you go with the first frigates of the US). But not as replacement of the ICONIC look of the Constitution.

Yeah, the writers are hack.

right, right, none of the writers (because, ya know, I speak for them 100% :p ) are like "The Connie is SHIT and we're gonna CHANGE it to FUCK with people".

None of them.

Some of them are "ya know, tha tmodel from the 60s... ye. or rather, nah. We need to update this."

Some of the others are "If you do, that'll piss off.. EVERYONE."

And someone who has to make a decision, somewhere, said "fine, just do it, we'll live with it."


That was it.

It wasn't "fuck Trek. Fuck TOS. Fuck TNG. fuck Stewart with his stupid... big... NOSE... and FUCK FRAKES (even tho he's directing this episode) because of his beard" etc.

They just did what they did.




"the writers are hack"?

?

You think the writers made that model of the Connie and put that in the show? No. The script will say:

INT: BRIDGE; Tactical station

Saru waves his hand over the interface which shows a Constitution Class Starship from the future




That's all it'd be in the script.

The WRITERS had fuck all to do with that.



that's VFX.



And just like how that bit in star wars return of the jedi when luke's hand is burned by the laser before the blaster hits, or just like how the Connie changed in STTMP or TNG or whatever, and just like how the Klingons changed in TMP then ST3, then ST5 and beyond - just liek that.

The writer wrote "Klingon". The VFX people / producers changed it.





Or to rephrase, 'would anyone currently NOT happy with ST:DIS, be happy if they changed Klingons back and changed the ship designs."?

I.e. is the ONLY reason someone doesnt like the show is *specifically and exclusively* because they changed Klingons and the warp engines?





No

?


Then don't pretend it is.

Boom. PU drops the mic.

Prometheus Unbound wrote: ↑2018-01-14 01:42pm

tezunegari wrote: ↑2018-01-14 12:56pm I actually like the design in itself and as a possible sister class to the Constitution (Chesapeake class? if you go with the first frigates of the US). But not as replacement of the ICONIC look of the Constitution.

Yeah, the writers are hack.

right, right, none of the writers (because, ya know, I speak for them 100% :p ) are like "The Connie is SHIT and we're gonna CHANGE it to FUCK with people".

None of them.
Some of them are "ya know, tha tmodel from the 60s... ye. or rather, nah. We need to update this."
Some of the others are "If you do, that'll piss off.. EVERYONE."
And someone who has to make a decision, somewhere, said "fine, just do it, we'll live with it."
That was it.

It wasn't "fuck Trek. Fuck TOS. Fuck TNG. fuck Stewart with his stupid... big... NOSE... and FUCK FRAKES (even tho he's directing this episode) because of his beard" etc.
They just did what they did.

"the writers are hack"?

You think the writers made that model of the Connie and put that in the show? No. The script will say:

INT: BRIDGE; Tactical station
Saru waves his hand over the interface which shows a Constitution Class Starship from the future

That's all it'd be in the script.

The WRITERS had fuck all to do with that.

that's VFX.

And just like how that bit in star wars return of the jedi when luke's hand is burned by the laser before the blaster hits, or just like how the Connie changed in STTMP or TNG or whatever, and just like how the Klingons changed in TMP then ST3, then ST5 and beyond - just liek that.

The writer wrote "Klingon". The VFX people / producers changed it.

Or to rephrase, 'would anyone currently NOT happy with ST:DIS, be happy if they changed Klingons back and changed the ship designs."?

I.e. is the ONLY reason someone doesnt like the show is *specifically and exclusively* because they changed Klingons and the warp engines?

No?

Then don't pretend it is.

Then let me rephrase my point:

The Producers are hacks because they had Marketing advertise this as Prime Timeline but on the other hand had VFX come up with a completely different design for the klingons as well as having the Federation ships look more post-Dominion war or STO-style than TOS.

And the writers?
Just last episode Tyler had Culber give him a medical examination. Culber concludes Tyler is not Tyler... and tells Tyler while alone with him.
(better: have Tyler pull the same stunt Saru did, run a computer analysis on his own actions but compared to his personal record, concluding he's not Tyler, Tyler keeps this a secret - same outcome, less idiocy on the characters side)

Before that: How about Burnhams "DO NOT KILL T'Kuvma" speech followed by her switching her phaser from stun to kill?
(better: Burnham shoots T'kuvma with the stun setting, it doesn't work because of his armor, he attacks her, she makes the choice to kill him in order to attempt to save Georgious life who might still be rescued with an artificial heart)

One dilithium mine produced 40% of all the Dilithium of Starfleet? And they cannot replace it with let's say commercial dilithium sources if there are mines exclusively mining for Starfleet? (alternatively make that mine into a supply depot, that if lost could cripple the supply chain for the Spore drive project not based in the Discovery, like building new units on Earth, or have it be an important intelligence installation)

How did Lorca end up so deep within klingon Territory after his shuttle was kidnapped by a D7(STD).

Also the whole writing around Tyler is so atrocious that the first theory about him was "That's Voq" to the point were the actual discussion was not IF but HOW he can be Voq without tripping medical examinations.

After the latest episode, Voq's time as a main character should be over soon. Once the Discovery gets out of the mirror universe, the sensible options are throwing him in a Federation POW facility, have him escape or release him to the Klingons.

Any guesses as to how the STD writers keep him around as a main character ?

I have to say I do like the actor's performances and the handling of PTSD and sexual assault trauma. Even though that's not what actually happened because Tyler is really Voq, the subject matter is handled well. Having it be a male character assaulted by a female means a lot of cultural baggage regarding sexual assault can be sidestepped to directly deal with the matter.

I also like the depiction of the Terran Empire as a giant pile of stress and false fronts. Everyone is afraid and the thing they fear most of all is to show it. I don't have a problem with how the Defiant looks because it actually looks like Constitution, albeit with some modifications and its entirely reasonable that it would have been modified over the decades. It's nothing like what they did to the D-7.

Having said that, boy do he writers and producers continue to love to brute force the plot line. Kol deciding to take on the Discovery with one ship while he's the most powerful warlord in the Klingon Empire was unbelievable. Kol bringing along some escorts and the Discovery having to make all those jumps not to examine the Ship of the Dead from every angle, something you don't need to jump for, but to remain in the area and evade the other ships would have made more sense. But we have to have our one on one ship fight so that doesn't happen.

As to how they're going to keep Voq around (if they keep Voq around, they've already killed multiple characters I liked with the doctor being the latest) it's probably not going to be pretty or organically developed. Something like exploiting T'kuvma's followers to gain an edge/end the war.

Speaking of the Terran empire, how did Mirror Spock earn his position near the top of the mirror Enterprise crew if the Terran Empire hates all things human like we were told ?

On a VFX note, is it just me, or is the STD bat'leth even less practical a weapon than previous versions ?

Here is a side by side image I found for you to look for yourself.

They'll probalby find a way to suppress the klingon personality and keep the human mask dominant by the power of technobabble.

Although not logical, I do hope they keep Ash Tyler/Voq around, because I like Shazad Latif's performance.

Hey guys, remember when we all said Star Wars had higher firepower orbital bombardment?

Well, yeah.

Bombardment with with anti-matter torpedoes might, just might, do a lot of damage. I may be reaching a little. Certainly a better looking bombardment than "A Die is Cast."

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2018-01-15 08:10amAfter the latest episode, Voq's time as a main character should be over soon. Once the Discovery gets out of the mirror universe, the sensible options are throwing him in a Federation POW facility, have him escape or release him to the Klingons.

Any guesses as to how the STD writers keep him around as a main character ?

From what I know, Shazad Latif is signed on for another season. As for story options, it can be about his internal struggle between his two identities. Despite their past and opposition and drama, the writers might just go for the happier ending where Melina Michael has fallen in love with Douglas Quaid Ash Tyler and still loves that man. But instead of blue skies on Mars, the man formerly known as Hauser Voq dies saving Michael and Discovery from L'Rell. Just my prediction.

Darth Lucifer wrote: ↑2018-01-15 11:22pm

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2018-01-15 08:10amAfter the latest episode, Voq's time as a main character should be over soon. Once the Discovery gets out of the mirror universe, the sensible options are throwing him in a Federation POW facility, have him escape or release him to the Klingons.

Any guesses as to how the STD writers keep him around as a main character ?

From what I know, Shazad Latif is signed on for another season. As for story options, it can be about his internal struggle between his two identities.

Why would Starfleet let him remain on the Discovery after he killed one of the crew ?

He should be kept in the brig until the Discovery can have him transferred to a psychiatric facility. Without treatment it is not safe to have him walking around freely.

Or maybe he escapes to the Klingons. Why would they let him into any positions of interest ?

bilateralrope wrote: ↑2018-01-15 11:51pm
Why would Starfleet let him remain on the Discovery after he killed one of the crew ?

He should be kept in the brig until the Discovery can have him transferred to a psychiatric facility. Without treatment it is not safe to have him walking around freely.

Or maybe he escapes to the Klingons. Why would they let him into any positions of interest ?

Maybe diminished capacity do to the mind fucking or treating the Doctor as a casualty of war. Yeah, not great but possible. Presumably his value is as a connection to Klingon factions sympathetic to T'kumva, if he comes around.

I'm fine with Voq/Tyler avoiding conviction. My first problem with him staying is that he is mentally ill and he is not safe to remain on the Discovery without treatment. My second problem, which I only just realized, is that if Starfleet lets him keep serving on any Starfleet ship then becomes the first klingon in Starfleet.

I watched the trailer for Episode 12... and there is one scene in it that is strange.

Apparently Saru has dialogue with L'Rell. (or it was out of context)
Saru: "Tyler is in distress."
L'Rell: "So bei it. That. Is. War."

But that is not Tyler as Saru should know because they arrested him when he was beamed back aboard the Discovery.
Which should be followed by a closer medical examination (at least the once Culber did before) and lead to his discovery as physiolocial klingon.

Ash Tyler... the real one from the main-universe, is most likely dead or at best still in klingon hands.

And now that I think of it that might be how they return Tyler to the show. (like the option they had with Riker in 6x24 Second Chances)

What else is Saru going to call him? Saru knows that he's really a Klingon, not his personal biography. It's entirely reasonable that Saru refers to Voq as "Tyler" until he finds out his true name.

NecronLord wrote: ↑2018-01-15 10:51pm Hey guys, remember when we all said Star Wars had higher firepower orbital bombardment?

Well, yeah.

Got ya a 1080 of it




I've been consistantly impressed witht he VFX in this show. Even the Pilot episode, which I found a bit confusing due to the editing. When you take out the scenes on the bridge and just go for externals, it's much more obvious what was happening in that battle (and boy is it pretty).

It costs about $8 million per episode, I’d be concerned if the VFX weren’t up to par Certainly looks lightyears above that shitty teaser they released with the old-style Discovery leaving the shipyard.

As to the show itself, I feel it’s really starting to hit its stride lately. It still ain’t quite Star Trek, but it feels like they’re starting to get back to it. At its current level I’d be happy to see them evolve the show further across S2.

That's the charming thing about trying to do firepower calcs about an ongoing franchise; the writers can overturn an arbitrary number of precedents in one scene, as soon as they decide the scene would look cool, because they don't care. Questions like "well, if they could do this ten years before Kirk, why did Picard have trouble blowing up an asteroid in this one episode of The Next Generation?" are simply not in their minds.

Photon torps are 64 megatons yield-wise, right? Couldn’t tell you where I pulled that number - perhaps my bum-cave - but to my uncultured mind that shot looked about right for a dozen or so Tsar Bomb-level explosions going off.

I remember that number too.

The thing is, Tsar Bomba style explosions don't leave big cracks with what is pretty clearly supposed to be lava all over the crust of the planet.

Then again, those could maybe just be sudden fires started on the surface by the flash of the torpedo detonations?

Simon_Jester wrote: ↑2018-01-19 08:09am Questions like "well, if they could do this ten years before Kirk, why did Picard have trouble blowing up an asteroid in this one episode of The Next Generation?" are simply not in their minds.

Although it doesn't take a big leap to say "The Terran Empire is considerably more interested in fucking up planets than the Federation, and developed their torpedoes to do it better".

Vendetta wrote: ↑2018-01-20 11:38am

Simon_Jester wrote: ↑2018-01-19 08:09am Questions like "well, if they could do this ten years before Kirk, why did Picard have trouble blowing up an asteroid in this one episode of The Next Generation?" are simply not in their minds.

Although it doesn't take a big leap to say "The Terran Empire is considerably more interested in fucking up planets than the Federation, and developed their torpedoes to do it better".

Makes perfect sense to me - they somehow looked more “evil” than normal photorps as they were on their way anyway