It makes sense for the Kelvin to be an older ship, probably was nearing its life cycle at the time of its destruction. It doesn't make much sense for Starfleet to build over a thousand ships in the 20 years between the Kelvin going bye bye in 2233 and the Enterprise being built in 2255. The Kelvin was probably one of the first generation Federation ships built in the wake of the Earth Romulan War and the formation of the Federation in the 2160s. The USS Franklin from beyond was the NX 326 and was supposed to be a United Earth ship presumably that fought in the Earth Romulan War.
Starfleet building a thousand ships over 70 years makes a bit more sense, especially considering they'd probably have to be replacing outdated ships.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 07:53am
by Lord Revan
The Kelvin being one the first UFP ships (opposed to hand-me-downs from United Earth and other member states) could explain why it seems so disportionate for a Prime (or in this case I should say "shared") timeline ship, if the Kelvin was an early UFP ship it could have been a testbed for future design idea and it was found that ships size of the Kelvin just weren't needed but the basic idea was viable enough so Starfleet kept using the ships of that class that were already built while future designs like a prime connie were smaller.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 08:21am
by Joun_Lord
I do like the idea of the Kelvin being a bigass test bed.
And it makes sense for the Kelvin to be large considering it was a survey vessel, most likely a long range one. It was built in an age when the Federation was just starting and didn't have Starbases everywhere and resupply probably wasn't so easy. By the time of TOS they most likely had lots of Starbases (I remember quite often the Enterprise being near a Starbase while on a mission) and didn't need to stuff the ship full of tons of supplies even for ships like the Enterprise on a 5 year exploration mission.
The alt-Enterprise probably could handle longer range missions and indeed I think was what they were doing in the opening of Beyond. The Captain Log talked about dwindling supplies and deep space. One of the plot points was them stopping at a new Starbase.
Maybe the alt-Starfleet wasn't building Starbases at the rate the prime-Starfleet was?
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 01:53pm
by Borgholio
Well in TOS, the Enterprise stopped at a starbase or station of some kind once every few episodes it seemed, so I don't know if we ever saw the Prime Enterprise ever stretch it's resources by going years without any chance to stopover and top off it's supplies.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 02:07pm
by Knife
Joun_Lord wrote:I do like the idea of the Kelvin being a bigass test bed.
And it makes sense for the Kelvin to be large considering it was a survey vessel, most likely a long range one. It was built in an age when the Federation was just starting and didn't have Starbases everywhere and resupply probably wasn't so easy. By the time of TOS they most likely had lots of Starbases (I remember quite often the Enterprise being near a Starbase while on a mission) and didn't need to stuff the ship full of tons of supplies even for ships like the Enterprise on a 5 year exploration mission.
The alt-Enterprise probably could handle longer range missions and indeed I think was what they were doing in the opening of Beyond. The Captain Log talked about dwindling supplies and deep space. One of the plot points was them stopping at a new Starbase.
Maybe the alt-Starfleet wasn't building Starbases at the rate the prime-Starfleet was?
I too kind of like the notion of the Kelvin type vessel being one of the first Federation craft after the formation of the Federation. The integration of the 4 powers knowledge of spacecraft and warp. If they want to do prime universe or even Nu trek type stuff I'd hope they'd go for the original feels or even the JJ trek old ships feels. Doesn't have to be a Kelvin or Newton, or Antares, etc... but the feel of them would be nice.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 02:41pm
by RogueIce
First of all, as mentioned before: this is set in the Prime timeline so can we please stop talking about Beyond because 1) it's irrelevant and 2) spoilers dammit.
Lord Revan wrote:the primary hull looks fine, with some added detail it might even look nice, but the secondary hull looks like it needed a couple more design passes to make it fit the starfleet design tradition better there's nothing wrong with the basic shape there it just looks like too bukly and angular for a starfleet ship.
You know, I think this is the problem with them going back to the Phase II concept art for this design, because there is a Starfleet design tradition now. And this thing feels out of place.
Back in the 70s or whenever that sketch was made we had what, the one ship design (which is neat) and the shuttles (which, let's face it, were boxes). Had that ship or something like it been introduced back then, it might have been better accepted because, well, why not? We'll never know, of course. But the Reliant was just a saucer with some nacelles on the bottom and that's like the second Starfleet design we saw, until we get to the Excelsior and GCS and beyond which gives us a general aesthetic for ships.
Of course this could be an experiment that never quite took off so who knows? I still think it looks kind of ugly, but maybe they'll tweak it a little between now and January.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 03:49pm
by bilateralrope
tezunegari wrote:Once there are 1080p videos with less compression available it might actually look better.
Here's a 1080p video. The Netflix AU/NZ trailer, which means it's confirmed that I'll have a way to watch ST:D legally.
Mange wrote:Well, the Discovery is clearly based on Ralph McQuarrie's concept art of the Enterprise for the cancelled Planet of the Titans. No word yet on when it'll be set?
I've quoted your post without any manual changes. Any formatting fuckups are the result of what the forum does after I hit the quote button in the 'topic review' section below the post window.
Some other interesting things there, so I'll quote the article:
Star Trek Executive Producer Bryan Fuller today announced at San Diego Comic Con that the new Star Trek series set to debut in January 2017 will be called Star Trek Discovery. The series will focus on the adventures of the U.S.S. Discovery, a ship of an unknown class with the registry NCC-1031, set in the Prime Timeline.
UDPATES: During the subsequent press interviews producer Heather Kadin exclusively told Trekmovie.com that the design for the U.S.S. Discovery is not final.
When asked about the increased representation of the new series Kadin said that women and LGBTQ characters (on and off screen) will be important to Star Trek Discovery.
With all the “STD” jokes floating around, John van Citters of CBS took to Twitter to say that the new series is officially being referred to as DSC when an abbreviation is needed.
Bryan Fuller:
One of the most beautiful things of Star Trek is that you have people who see this show and they want to be scientists, they want to make it into space, we have to celebrate a progression of our species, because it seems right now we as a species need a little help. There’s nothing like the guiding light that Gene Roddenberry hung high in the sky.
Fuller stated that the new series needed to remind the audience of Star Trek’s message of hope and optimism for the future, and continue to be progressive and push boundaries. Fuller believes that we have to celebrate a progression of our species, but that we need a little help. The new series will not be episodic, but will instead tell stories like a novel chapter by chapter.
The ship design is an interesting choice, heavily influenced by Ralph McQuarrie’s concepts for an Enterprise redesign during the abandoned Phase II series/telemovies. More info on the concept designs can be found at Memory Alpha.
McQuarrie_Phase_II_Enterprise
Here is the teaser that debuted in Hall H:
NOTE: This is a simple promotional video, and the CGI quality is clearly rough, it should not be taken as an indication of how the final product will look.
I'll give them a pass on the CGI looking crap since they say they will change it
I hope they change the ship to something that fits with Starfleets design traditions.
As for trying to change our traditions in how we refer to each series because they ran into an unfortunate abbreviation, good luck with that.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 05:12pm
by RogueIce
bilateralrope wrote:As for trying to change our traditions in how we refer to each series because they ran into an unfortunate abbreviation, good luck with that.
Not really? The abbreviations that I've always seen for each series have been a shortening of what comes after the "Star Trek" title: TNG (The Next Generation), DS9 (Deep Space 9), VOY (Voyager) and ENT(Enterprise). Even the original gets, well, TOS for The Original Series.
Seriously, "STD" is the departure here, not DSC.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 08:15pm
by Skylon
Just a note about the Discovery's registry - NCC-1031 - it is likely a homage to the Space Shuttle Discovery which was designated OV-103 by NASA.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-07-24 10:08pm
by SpottedKitty
Skylon wrote:Just a note about the Discovery's registry - NCC-1031 - it is likely a homage to the Space Shuttle Discovery which was designated OV-103 by NASA.
Also, don't forget the original TOS starship numbers were a little bit all over the place, e.g. Commodore Decker's Constellation was NCC-1017.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-07-25 12:02am
by bilateralrope
A though I had after seeing Beyond: Spoiler
I can't help but see how similar the Franklin and Discovery are in colour. The Franklin is a ship that has been planetside for a few decades, it's allowed to look rusty. What's the Discovery's excuse ?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-07-25 12:21am
by Q99
I do see why they'd want it to stand out somewhat from other shows, give it a new look.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-07-25 12:48am
by Lord Revan
a reply to bilateralrope. Spoiler
do we even know that SF ships are made from materials that can rust or to be more clear show visible signing of corrosion clearly enough to be visible on a ship as big as the Franklin it could just be the color palette of SF for that era
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-06 10:03pm
by Q99
Lord Revan wrote:a reply to bilateralrope. Spoiler
do we even know that SF ships are made from materials that can rust or to be more clear show visible signing of corrosion clearly enough to be visible on a ship as big as the Franklin it could just be the color palette of SF for that era
Hm, also, aside from whether they're capable, would they? They're in space, nothing to react to.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-08-09 11:51am
by FedRebel
bilateralrope wrote:
Now lets talk about the Starfleet vessels with cloaking devices that I can think of:
- The Defiant. A dedicated warship.
- The Holoship from Insurrection. Intended to be used for abduction.
In both cases, these ships got a cloaking device because their specific mission required one. Neither ship was meant for peaceful exploration.
Don't forget The Pegasus, a Black Budget ILLEGAL cloak test bed
The Defiant's got a bible worth of fine print attached to it's cloak, it can only be used in the Gamma Quadrant, Romulan advisor must be onboard, etc. Of course suspiciously the Romulan Advisor vanished...and Sisko & Co. used the rulebook for toliet paper
Nothing rosey at all about Starfleet cloaks, that's for sure.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-08-09 12:53pm
by Prometheus Unbound
FedRebel wrote:and Sisko & Co. used the rulebook for toliet paper
Weeeellllll, outside of the Dominion War, only once.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-09 07:59pm
by Lord Revan
Maybe I've just had to deal too much with STOs mindless grind (because crypic can't make a proper xp curve to save their life), but I got this nagging feeling that CBS/Paramount are gonna screw up Discovery on purpose to taint everything involving the prime-timeline to promote the Kelvin-timeline.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-09 08:26pm
by U.P. Cinnabar
Lord Revan wrote:Maybe I've just had to deal too much with STOs mindless grind (because crypic can't make a proper xp curve to save their life), but I got this nagging feeling that CBS/Paramount are gonna screw up Discovery on purpose to taint everything involving the prime-timeline to promote the Kelvin-timeline.
Or merge it into the Kelvin timeline. This is supposed to be set after Enterprise, but before TOS, isn't it?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-09 08:31pm
by Lord Revan
U.P. Cinnabar wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:Maybe I've just had to deal too much with STOs mindless grind (because crypic can't make a proper xp curve to save their life), but I got this nagging feeling that CBS/Paramount are gonna screw up Discovery on purpose to taint everything involving the prime-timeline to promote the Kelvin-timeline.
Or merge it into the Kelvin timeline. This is supposed to be set after Enterprise, but before TOS, isn't it?
I've heard rumors of "after TNG" (which could mean during the same time as DS9 or after Nemesis depending how you interpit "after TNG")
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-09 09:12pm
by U.P. Cinnabar
Oh, okay. Either case, that doesn't stop See BS from trying to merge it into the Kelvin timeline. I know both See BS and Paramount insist that the Kelvin timeline isn't going to end up TNG's past(in so many words), but Paramount also promised no Starfleet Academy movie (starring Kirk and Co.) back in the 1990s as well.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-08-10 10:56am
by NecronLord
Prometheus Unbound wrote:
FedRebel wrote:and Sisko & Co. used the rulebook for toliet paper
Weeeellllll, outside of the Dominion War, only once.
Well the writers are on record as saying they always wanted to include a mention that the Romulans had authorized more widespread use of the cloak with less supervision.
It's word of god, but I'd say it's canon.
I'd be very very (very!) unsurprised if they'd also granted the Federation an exemption from the Treaty of Algeron for the Insurrection incident, given that everyone in the Alpha Quadrant was expected to benefit.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-10 11:00am
by Elheru Aran
The question comes to mind as well: if the holoship can use its holograms to disguise itself quite effectively... isn't that basically a cloaking device without the Romulan-specific device?
EDIT: With the caveat, I suppose, that observers external to the holoship might be able to detect its mass or whatever.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-10 11:08am
by NecronLord
Well they actually call it 'cloaked' in the film.
Of course it's entirely possible that the Treaty of Algeron doesn't restrict the use of cloaking devices on undeveloped worlds. Unless we saw the text we can't say.
Re: Star Trek: Discorvery
Posted: 2016-08-10 01:20pm
by Prometheus Unbound
NecronLord wrote:
Prometheus Unbound wrote:
FedRebel wrote:and Sisko & Co. used the rulebook for toliet paper
Weeeellllll, outside of the Dominion War, only once.
Well the writers are on record as saying they always wanted to include a mention that the Romulans had authorized more widespread use of the cloak with less supervision.
It's word of god, but I'd say it's canon.
no issues there - it'd make sense for them to authorise it in the war, especially once they became part of it.
The Romulans didn't want the Dominion to win, as such, but as Dax put it were happy to let them hurt the Federation. I'd think Starfleet would have asked the Romulans officially (it seems their thing).
I'd be very very (very!) unsurprised if they'd also granted the Federation an exemption from the Treaty of Algeron for the Insurrection incident, given that everyone in the Alpha Quadrant was expected to benefit.
It's possible it wasn't a cloak but a holographic shell on the outside as well. Actually I wonder why Federation ships don't do that more often. Power requirements maybe. Ahh I guess you could still scan it and all. All they needed to do for the Baku was keep it hidden.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Posted: 2016-08-10 01:55pm
by SpottedKitty
Elheru Aran wrote:The question comes to mind as well: if the holoship can use its holograms to disguise itself quite effectively... isn't that basically a cloaking device without the Romulan-specific device?
Come to think of it, do we have any canon info on how the Romulan tech works? Could it actually be some form of hologram setup, and the Romulans just got a lucky R&D break ahead of most other warp-capable civilizations in the Alpha Quadrant?