the Abrams films so effort even if misguided to make a good Trek film, the later prime verse films as well as ENT and VOY for the most part showed no effort to make anything else the "by the numbers" Trek work and even when they tried did "try" something else it came out as forced and unanatural for the most part.
It's quite telling that best VOY and ENT episodes are generally ones that showed effort to work with the premise
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-15 06:32am
by Simon_Jester
The piece of the sound track they chose for this preview is... very very unsuitable for Star Trek. This may be part of what's making people looking at it think they're about to smack into Star Trek: The Fast and the Furious or some stupid thing like that.
Adam Reynolds wrote:The line "This is where the frontier pushes back*" is in many ways a betrayal of the ideals of Star Trek. Though on the upside we actually get to see the idea of the Enterprise doing what it was supposed to. Something we haven't seen at all in the last two movies.
Adam, the frontier always pushes back.
Remember the first episode of TOS? Kirk loses one of his best friends because the Enterprise pushed all the way to the edge of the galaxy.
Remember Q Who? "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." There's a reason for that.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-15 07:04am
by The Romulan Republic
I think that may be my second favourite Trek line. First place goes to one of Garak's:
"Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder."
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-15 07:05am
by Grumman
Simon_Jester wrote:The piece of the sound track they chose for this preview is... very very unsuitable for Star Trek. This may be part of what's making people looking at it think they're about to smack into Star Trek: The Fast and the Furious or some stupid thing like that.
Watching it muted with Beethoven playing doesn't help. The Force Awakens trailer flows a lot better, with the first half of the trailer following a clear structure as it introduces each of the three main actors. This one has its moments, but the best bits of it are the ones where it bothers to focus on one scene for more than a second.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-15 05:14pm
by Adam Reynolds
Simon_Jester wrote:Adam, the frontier always pushes back.
Remember Q Who? "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." There's a reason for that.
This is true, and I love the line from Q, it is probably the best single line from all of Star Trek. The one that summarizes the philosophy of true Star Trek the best. And the reason that DS9 and Voyager largely killed Trek. They stopped seeing truly new things. But the thing that makes that line so fantastic is the second half combined with the first half. This trailer's version is missing that half. Where are the treasures? We haven't seen any with the remake films.
Recently, The Martian is a far better version of this idea than recent Star Trek. While there was an extreme degree of danger, there was also a sense of getting to overcome it through intelligence and cooperation* rather than with bigger explosions(exempting those in rockets of course).
* Notice that it was the Chinese that saved Mark Watney and the Hermes crew in the end.
The fact that the director of the Fast and Furious movies is making a film about heroes that are supposed to solve their problems at least partially through intelligence is also bad. We already saw his attempt at this with the TV series Scorpion, which was terrible. It featured a car chasing an airplane down a runway to extract data from it with an ethernet cable. Which made even less sense in context.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-15 05:51pm
by Simon_Jester
Grumman wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:The piece of the sound track they chose for this preview is... very very unsuitable for Star Trek. This may be part of what's making people looking at it think they're about to smack into Star Trek: The Fast and the Furious or some stupid thing like that.
Watching it muted with Beethoven playing doesn't help. The Force Awakens trailer flows a lot better, with the first half of the trailer following a clear structure as it introduces each of the three main actors. This one has its moments, but the best bits of it are the ones where it bothers to focus on one scene for more than a second.
I'm not saying the trailer is good, I'm saying the music is bad.
And yeah, too much shaky jittering between scenes.
Adam Reynolds wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Adam, the frontier always pushes back.
Remember Q Who? "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." There's a reason for that.
This is true, and I love the line from Q, it is probably the best single line from all of Star Trek. The one that summarizes the philosophy of true Star Trek the best. And the reason that DS9 and Voyager largely killed Trek. They stopped seeing truly new things. But the thing that makes that line so fantastic is the second half combined with the first half. This trailer's version is missing that half. Where are the treasures? We haven't seen any with the remake films.
Hm. You really think so? I haven't watched much Voyager; it's kind of... embarrassing if they managed to take an opportunity like "voyage through totally unexplored space tens of thousands of light years from Federation space" and turn it into "they stopped seeing truly new things."
The fact that the director of the Fast and Furious movies is making a film about heroes that are supposed to solve their problems at least partially through intelligence is also bad. We already saw his attempt at this with the TV series Scorpion, which was terrible. It featured a car chasing an airplane down a runway to extract data from it with an ethernet cable. Which made even less sense in context.
Well, we can hope the guy has some more hidden depths, but none of the actual evidence to date is promising.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-15 07:05pm
by Batman
Yeah, if you're doing Trek you have your work cut out trying to do worse than ENT. But I agree this trailer was pretty incoherent and the soundtrack choice was suboptimal. Still, first trailer, doesn't necessarily say much about the finished movie.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-15 09:07pm
by Adam Reynolds
Simon_Jester wrote:Hm. You really think so? I haven't watched much Voyager; it's kind of... embarrassing if they managed to take an opportunity like "voyage through totally unexplored space tens of thousands of light years from Federation space" and turn it into "they stopped seeing truly new things."
Sadly not as much as one would have thought. There were a few new things, like Species 8472, but overall there wasn't as much new material as one would have thought. Though there were far worse problems with Voyager than this.
It was actually a bigger problem with DS9, the only reason that it didn't destroy the series was because its focus was as more of a political drama, which was sufficiently interesting to make up for this change. The problem became worse when the same focus was kept when they went into Voyager, which should have went into territory completely uncharted and for the most part didn't.
Well, we can hope the guy has some more hidden depths, but none of the actual evidence to date is promising.
Indeed not. Especially given that it has the same screenwriters as the last movie as well.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-16 03:01pm
by The Romulan Republic
Bull shit.
Writers of Into Darkness:
Roberto Orci
Alex Kurtzman
Damon Lindelof
Gene Roddenberry (for creating the series)
I'm gonna try and trust Simon Pegg when he says that there's more to the movie than what the trailer gives the impression of, but I honestly don't have much hope.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-17 01:50pm
by Crazedwraith
Poor Simon Pegg.
To be fair, the element of the story that's there in the trailer: 'Enterprise crew stranded on war stricken planet having to pick sides' Is fine and has lots of potential. It's just all.. the presentation around that makes give it the side-eye.
But that is what teasers are always like.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2015-12-18 05:07pm
by darth_timon
I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about it. I didn't mind the trailer and with different writers and a different director, this could be good.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-01-14 09:33am
by FedRebel
The Romulan Republic wrote:Bull shit.
Writers of Into Darkness:
Roberto Orci
Alex Kurtzman
Damon Lindelof
Gene Roddenberry (for creating the series)
It's a longer list...which should be worrying, Trek's worst episodes had Bible length writer's credits.
But so did some of their best (Yesterday's Enterprise springs to mind).
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-01-14 12:06pm
by Crazedwraith
Or Trials & Tribble-lations. It depends if all the writers wanted to get in on the awesome thing they were doing.... or it's been all around the writer's room as they desperately try to scrape something together for shooting tomorrow.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-01-14 12:14pm
by Mange
FedRebel wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Bull shit.
Writers of Into Darkness:
Roberto Orci
Alex Kurtzman
Damon Lindelof
Gene Roddenberry (for creating the series)
It's a longer list...which should be worrying, Trek's worst episodes had Bible length writer's credits.
The screenplay for Beyond was written by Simon Pegg and Doug Jung. The script by Roberto Orci, John D. Payne and Patrick McKay wasn't used and Pegg has said that neither he nor Jung never even read their script: Nerdist
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-02-23 07:51pm
by LastShadow
It looks....exciting, at the very least. Will it be good? i wont really know until i see more trailers, and even then it will take the actual movie to let me say if it looked good. Trailers are very deceptive these days, bad movies look good, good movies look bad. Editing teams and executives need to get closer to the same page.
But my main hope for this movie is that the Enterprise is FINALLY destroyed for good, or damaged enough that the refit comes into play. The ship looks cool, but i want to see the next iteration of the Enterprise, the E-A needs to show up.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-14 11:37am
by Borgholio
Looks like they're doing major reshoots and added a whole new cast member. This can't be good.
Justin Lin’s Star Trek Beyond is coming in a few shorts months, but news just broke of reshoots as well as the addition of a new cast member. Deadline reports Shohreh Aghdashloo (24, The Expanse) has been added to the cast as the High Command of the Federation.
We spoke about the film with Lin several months ago and he sounded very confident about the direction it was going. However, this news suggests something was not working when people finally watched the whole thing together. The good news is, if there was a problem, these reshoots are happening to fix it. In theory, they’ll improve the movie... though it is a bit worry some for a new actress to come onto a project this late. If Aghdashloo’s character is a wholly new addition, it could be anything from a quick fix to something more radical.
Star Trek Beyond Is Reshooting and Adding an Entirely New Cast Member
Aghdashloo herself, though, is simply an amazing actress. She first hit with American audiences on 24, was nominated for an Oscar for House of Sand and Fog, won an Emmy for House of Saddam, and has even been in a big genre movie before. She played Dr. Kavita Rao in X-Men: The Last Stand. Recently, she was seen on Grimm and is currently on SyFy’s The Expanse.
Star Trek Beyond is still scheduled for release on July 22.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-14 12:22pm
by Feil
I wonder if they're just trying to create continuity with next year's TV series by inserting a recurring minor character as a bit part in the movie. Especially given her record as a scifi TV star, it would make sense.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-14 03:03pm
by Tribble
I'll have Q sum up Voyager's main problem:
"Voyager never had a brush with death, never came face to face with its own mortality, never realized how fragile ratings are, how important each scene must be. So its premise never came into focus. It drifted through much of the series, with no plan or agenda, going from one episode to the next, never seizing the opportunities that presented themselves!
It never had a crisis that lasted more than a two-parter, never showed two crews being forced to work together to survive, and no one ever thought they were in any real danger.
They learned to play it safe. And they never, ever, got noticed by anyone."
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-16 08:03am
by NeoGoomba
Tribble wrote:I'll have Q sum up Voyager's main problem:
"Voyager never had a brush with death, never came face to face with its own mortality, never realized how fragile ratings are, how important each scene must be. So its premise never came into focus. It drifted through much of the series, with no plan or agenda, going from one episode to the next, never seizing the opportunities that presented themselves!
It never had a crisis that lasted more than a two-parter, never showed two crews being forced to work together to survive, and no one ever thought they were in any real danger.
They learned to play it safe. And they never, ever, got noticed by anyone."
/slow clap
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-16 04:29pm
by DaveJB
Given what we know of the plot so far, it wouldn't surprise me if they're adding a NuTrek equivalent to the scene at the end of The Voyage Home where Kirk and crew get congratulated by the Federation President, and are then given the Enterprise-A.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-16 08:16pm
by Tribble
NeoGoomba wrote:
Tribble wrote:I'll have Q sum up Voyager's main problem:
"Voyager never had a brush with death, never came face to face with its own mortality, never realized how fragile ratings are, how important each scene must be. So its premise never came into focus. It drifted through much of the series, with no plan or agenda, going from one episode to the next, never seizing the opportunities that presented themselves!
It never had a crisis that lasted more than a two-parter, never showed two crews being forced to work together to survive, and no one ever thought they were in any real danger.
They learned to play it safe. And they never, ever, got noticed by anyone."
/slow clap
Ya I know I'm being silly, but that was the problem in a nutshell.
The show was supposed to be... well, pretty much what early nBSG was. Instead we got more TNG, but without the same cast. It was the waste of potential that bugs me the most.
Same with Enterprise, the premise was good (seeing what things were like before the TOS era) unfortunately the execution was horribly flawed.
Hopefully the new series will turn out alright, but I'm going to wait for it to be out for awhile before I take a look.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-17 05:54am
by Lord Revan
Problem with both Voyager and Enterprise can be summed up as playing it safe, that's why they were like TNG with a new cast rather then taking advantage of the premise.
As for the new series, we got to remember that season 1 and 2 of TNG weren't so good either (in fact season 2 is generally considered the worst TNG season), so if it's not "supermega great" from the first episode onwards it doesn't mean it'll suck.
Re: Star Trek: Beyond trailer
Posted: 2016-03-17 07:32am
by Prometheus Unbound
Lord Revan wrote:Problem with both Voyager and Enterprise can be summed up as playing it safe, that's why they were like TNG with a new cast rather then taking advantage of the premise.
As for the new series, we got to remember that season 1 and 2 of TNG weren't so good either (in fact season 2 is generally considered the worst TNG season), so if it's not "supermega great" from the first episode onwards it doesn't mean it'll suck.
but this isn't 1987. There's a billion channels to choose from and no one is going to pay for CBS digital whatever it is (99% of viewers will pirate this show, I guarantee it) - so if it's shit in the first couple of episodes, people will unsub. And no one will view it and it'll get cancelled half way through season 1.
I like Star Trek. It's my favourite Scifi but jeese, give it a rest already. It has done every conceivable Scifi story in one way or another. There is nothing original left to look at.
I'm really not interested in a new TV show or Star Trek Beyond. The last few incarnations of Star Trek have been so far removed from what Star Trek was about, it's just Trek in name only.
