StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I also would like to take a look. My email is my username @gmail.com as well.

Sent to both

I'd like to take a look at it.

(email address oppressed by the administration, Alyeska)

People, there are such things as PMs. They are useful in that they don't spam up threads, plus you're not posting your email out in public where any spammer can see them.

Mayabird wrote:People, there are such things as PMs. They are useful in that they don't spam up threads, plus you're not posting your email out in public where any spammer can see them.

Oops, that's sheer ignorance on my part. I've only had 5 PMs over the last 8 years! Everyone who PM'd me over the weekend will be sent a copy, and this will be the last spammy update of that sort.

Michael Piller wrote:Exception number one: everyone knew from the start this picture would actually get made. Most scripts are written without that knowledge.

Ah, so that's why the film was terrible.

Why bother when you know it's going to go through regardless.

I wouldn't pin it on that. I'm pretty sure most of the Trek movies weren't started by someone pitching a script at the studio and saying "hey, you guys should make a Trek feature", but by the studio saying "let's do another Trek feature, call up some guys and let's make this happen".

I'm pretty sure the biggest culprits behind the failure of Insurrection were:

1) Piller
2) Berman


Which is somewhat unfortunate, because I remember hearing someone claim that Insurrection had actually started out as an incredibly powerful story and was watered down again and again by those dastardly studio people, and that is a much more palatable tale than "Michael Piller was a bad writer who liked technobabble too much, and he was best butt-buddies with Rick Berman."

The treatment Piller originally had, which is in this document, was much more interesting and engaging than the finished product. But Berman didn't like it.

Really? What was it like?

Wasn't the original script much more about Data going rogue with Picard chasing him, rather than the cheesy and quickly resolved opening set-piece in the final product? Also I heard that Patrick Stewart had a hand in watering down Piller's original screenplay.

Srelex wrote:Really? What was it like?

The villains were the Romulans. So already, it's kicking goals. No Son'a or whatever those goofy alien wankers were called.

The 'Data goes native' plot was non-existent. Instead, it would have introduced an old friend of Picard's from the Academy who had 'gone rogue' so to speak. The Federation would order Picard to apprehend this person because he was jeopardising peace talks between the Federation and the Romulans. The plot would be that there was a special [TECH] reason for the Briar Patch and the planet with its 'fountain of youth' being valuable to the rest of the galaxy in medical technology, but the idea was that the Federation was turning a blind eye to the plight of the planet because the talks with the Romulans were too important; e.g. the Romulans were violating the neutral zone to enter the Briar Patch and so on and Starfleet wasn't doing anything about it. So the Federation is acting cynically and basically allowing the Romulans to conquer a peaceful planet, especially when there are secret agreements that say that the Federation would get a share of the unobtanium.

I can't remember the film's finished product all that well, to be honest, but as written the treatment did seem a whole lot better than I remember the film being. I seem to remember that there was a Starfleet Admiral who was a bad guy, but in this it would have been the Vulcan council president who was conducting the treaty negotiations. And he wouldn't be a bad guy so much as someone who logically exchanged one ideal for another. The idea was that moving the people from the planet would kill them, because their biochemistry depended on the 'regenerative radiation' (lol), so effectively to let the Romulans have free rein over it would amount to condoning genocide. The Vulcan's argument was essentially a needs of the many versus the needs of the few.

Piller's treatment was vague on the role Data would play. He had some interesting ideas though, which involved Data essentially becoming what he always wanted to be - human - and not being 'happy' about it. He would meet a series of androids that were being designed by the Federation who looked up to him as a sort of hero, because he was so much more developed than they were and he even had emotions, but he wouldn't appreciate them and would be frustrated by them.

That version might have been worth it just to see the TNG era Romulan Warbirds on the big screen.

Yes. But honestly, my opinion of TNG movies is so low I doubt that would improve it.

Stofsk wrote:The treatment Piller originally had, which is in this document, was much more interesting and engaging than the finished product. But Berman didn't like it.

I really can't buy the "sarium krellide" Macguffin. Piller would have us believe that all medical technology and treatment beyond the mid-21st century is utterly dependent on some consumable magic space-ore that can't be replenished or synthesized. But if I remember right, the space-ore plot was actually the alternate concept that Piller came up with when Berman shot down the fountain of youth because he was afraid they might offend Patrick Stewart by suggesting he's old. (???)

It's a pretty dumb macguffin, but Piller did note Picard saying something like 'we got by without it for centuries, we can do so again'.

Honestly, given the restrictions Pillar was working under, I don't know if I could have done any better. It would have been different, but I don't know if it would have been any better.

You're already supposed to be rewriting Voyager.

Unfortuantely the doc file seems to have been taken down - the tinyurl isn't working. Would it be possible for someone to PM me a link for this file? I'd be quite interested in reading it.

Thanks.

Stofsk wrote:You're already supposed to be rewriting Voyager.

Heh.

It's no secret that IX had a troubled production history. Very interesting to see it expanded on.

One additional thought:

When testing was done on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, the results told us that audiences were unhappy that the characters on board the space station didn’t always get along. And they complained that the “station doesn’t go anywhere.” In other words, they were asking for more of Star Trek: The Next Generation. We made a few adjustments to Deep Space Nine, but the real impact of that research was on the creation of Star Trek: Voyager. It was decided early on that it would be a ship-based show and there were to be no serious conflicts between the characters because that’s what the fans wanted.

....

Then what the hell was the point of creating the Maquis if you never intended to follow through on the conflict inherent in VGR's premise?

I'll be perfectly honest. I'd rather have had another seven years of TNG than have any of the spin offs or TNG movies.

Stofsk wrote:I'll be perfectly honest. I'd rather have had another seven years of TNG than have any of the spin offs or TNG movies.

You may as well have. Voyager was essentially TNG, if it had totally worn itself out.

DS9 at least made an effort at being different.

Stofsk wrote:I'll be perfectly honest. I'd rather have had another seven years of TNG than have any of the spin offs or TNG movies.

I enjoyed TNG, but it was getting old and the stories were starting to become bad in many respects. DS9 was different and it was good.

What's sad is that Voyager and Enterprise could have really been their own unique series had the production team been slightly different.

Srelex wrote:What's sad is that Voyager and Enterprise could have really been their own unique series had the production team been slightly different.

Agreed.

To expand on my earlier post, the revelations from Piller's memoirs were simultaneously disturbing and enlightening. I've thought for years that VGR's problems lay primarily in how Berman and Braga handled the early seasons and how it negatively impacted the progression of the show (the failed conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet, the lack of character development, etc.).

Now, that excerpt shows that VGR was doomed before they'd even begun shooting the pilot. What a waste...