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Also based on the damage 72 'speshul' photon torpedoes did while inside the cargo bay of the Vengeance, why does Starfleet even bother firing torpedoes loaded with mere antimatter at people?

It's starships ought to fire crates of explosive rings with jugs of water. Considering one little ring and a glass of water blows up a few blocks of London and a reinforced military facility.

I assumed the ring was a water soluble container for whatever the explosive was.

Maybe antimatter.

You're also assuming that what there was no secondary explotions what so ever.

And comparing an explosion inside of an armored warship of extreme size to an underground complex.

I distinctly remember secondary explosions in that scene. Whatever that ring was cooked off other stuff,as evidence by the fiery explosion that spread through the cavernous room from multiple sources, and the fact that people watching could see repeated blasts rather than one big one.

Saw the film last weekend.

Because I stayed as far away as I could from any publicity, I wasn't really spoiled -- even with the Khan reveal.

Had its flaws, but much better than I was expecting.

3/4

WTF.... how long did the trip from Kronos to Earth took? It was like a couple of minutes on screen time.

W. T. F.

Isn't it supposed to take days to go between the two systems? The original movie was bad enough with the quick trip from Earth to Vulcan... but it looks like Earth to Kronos is EVEN closer, even when considering the different "warp speed" in this reboot. Doesn't anyone proofread this kind of shit anymore?

Explanations anyone?

Next complaint, why is Earth so UNDEFENDED?

THERE WAS NO FUCKING SHIPS IN THE SOL SYSTEM save for the Enterprise and the other Dreadnaught. WTF!?!?!

Don't they normally defend Earth? Hmm... let's see two ships emerged outta warp near Earth, one firing on the other, damage, etc... and NOBODY IS AROUND TO INVESTIGATE?

Oh... and the dreadnaught just happened to crash into Starfleet HEADQUARTERS? Even Pacifistic TNG Starfleet defended their FUCKING HEADQUARTERS.

And in the background we get the implication that tensions between Starfleet and the Klingons are high... so let's see in this reboot:
1) One can warp from Kronos to Earth in a few minutes (definitely less than an hour).
2) Earth is so poorly defended or not defended at all.

Anyone wonder why the Klingons don't just warp in a fleet and glass the planet? Seriously WTF MAN!!!!

Retarded script writers!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another plot hole.

Those long-range torpedoes were supposed to used. Kirk was supposed to park at the edge of the Neutral Zone and "cruise missile attack" Kronos.

PROBLEM. How far is Kronos from the Neutral Zone? I don't know, but my guess is that one does not put one's homeworld at the edge of the Neutral Zone in drawing out borders. That means that logically Kronos is "deep" in Klingon territory and definitely LIGHT YEARS away from the Neutral Zone.

Since when did new Trek have warp-capable weapons? All weapons in Trek is sublight only, so how the FUCK is the torpedoes going to hit Kronos when the Enterprise was supposed to be parked light years away from Kronos????

AndroAsc wrote:Since when did new Trek have warp-capable weapons? All weapons in Trek is sublight only, so how the FUCK is the torpedoes going to hit Kronos when the Enterprise was supposed to be parked light years away from Kronos????

TNG at the latest. The type of probe that K'Ehleyr was sent in during the episode "The Emissary" shared the same propulsion systems and casing as a Photon Torpedo.

AndroAsc wrote:Next complaint, why is Earth so UNDEFENDED?

THERE WAS NO FUCKING SHIPS IN THE SOL SYSTEM save for the Enterprise and the other Dreadnaught. WTF!?!?!

Don't they normally defend Earth? Hmm... let's see two ships emerged outta warp near Earth, one firing on the other, damage, etc... and NOBODY IS AROUND TO INVESTIGATE?

Oh... and the dreadnaught just happened to crash into Starfleet HEADQUARTERS? Even Pacifistic TNG Starfleet defended their FUCKING HEADQUARTERS.

They don't.

Seriously. When Earth is threatened nobody is fucking around.

TMP: An alien probe is headed right for Earth - "The only starship in interception range is the Enterprise."
Generations: While the Ent-B is in the Sol system still "We're the only one in range."
BOBW: Well, there was the "Mars defense perimeter" but that is it. You could argue everything around Earth was sent to Wolf 359 but still...
DS9: "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" it is implied ONLY the USS Lakota is around Earth.

It is more rare in Trek for more than one ship to be around Earth, and this film it is easier to hand-wave away than most times (Admiral Marcus, knowing he was chasing the Enterprise back to Earth ordered all Starfleet ships around Earth to do some other stuff).

Honestly, the flaws in this film somehow made it MORE typical Star Trek.

AndroAsc wrote: Since when did new Trek have warp-capable weapons? All weapons in Trek is sublight only, so how the FUCK is the torpedoes going to hit Kronos when the Enterprise was supposed to be parked light years away from Kronos????

Trek weapons have been useable at warp since the original series.

Phasers weren't supposed to be usable at warp drive in the original continuity, but photons have always worked fine at warp speeds.

TimothyC wrote:

AndroAsc wrote:Since when did new Trek have warp-capable weapons? All weapons in Trek is sublight only, so how the FUCK is the torpedoes going to hit Kronos when the Enterprise was supposed to be parked light years away from Kronos????

TNG at the latest. The type of probe that K'Ehleyr was sent in during the episode "The Emissary" shared the same propulsion systems and casing as a Photon Torpedo.

No photorps have ever been shown to go into warp from a parked ship or in impulse. The torpedoes have warp sustainers and thus can travel in warp if launched during warp.

DaveJB wrote:Phasers weren't supposed to be usable at warp drive in the original continuity, but photons have always worked fine at warp speeds.

Phasers did work at warp. Several episodes of the original series had phasers being used at warp and Nemesis had the Enterprise being knocked out of warp by damage from disruptors.

Hence why I said "supposed to." It was one of those things they first brought up I believe in TNG, then mentioned only a half-dozen or so times throughout the remainder of the franchise and pretty often ignored anyway.

AndroAsc wrote:Another plot hole.

Those long-range torpedoes were supposed to used. Kirk was supposed to park at the edge of the Neutral Zone and "cruise missile attack" Kronos.

PROBLEM. How far is Kronos from the Neutral Zone? I don't know, but my guess is that one does not put one's homeworld at the edge of the Neutral Zone in drawing out borders. That means that logically Kronos is "deep" in Klingon territory and definitely LIGHT YEARS away from the Neutral Zone.

Exactly. It's not like South Korea would put their capital city and largest metropolis within easy artillery range of the DMZ and border with their hostile neighbor.

Guardsman Bass wrote:That's been a problem with both of the nuTrek movies (I was not a fan of Old Spock showing up in either movie). They keep getting drawn back into the old Star Trek, instead of letting it stand on its own as a re-boot. And virtually all of the tension in the re-treaded death scene was drained by the fact that you know Kirk's going to be alive and kicking again real quick.

That's because it's not a reboot. This is something a lot of people aren't getting, and I think it's why they get confused. The Abrams films were an expansion of the existing Trek universe, not a replacement. A normal Hollywood reboot would have replaced Trek completely, not even acknowledging anything that came before it. In fact, that's part of what makes a reboot a reboot. Ignoring everything that came before and pretending this is an idea they came up with last week. Reboots don't tie in the previous works, they don't reference them, and they certainly don't create a situation where two versions are operating in parallel with both being affected by the same event.

These films are set in an alternate universe, the same thing that has been done in Trek many times before. Most notably with the Mirror Universe. When Nero and Spock went through the rift created by the Red Matter explosion, they were not only sent back in time, but into an alternate universe. Nothing changed in the Prime Universe, it still exists and is continuing on its course. Romulus was destroyed and Nero and Spock went missing. Star Trek Online continues after this incident in the 25th century Prime Universe. The story content of Star Trek Online is created directly by CBS, so it's as close to hard canon as you're going to get without a new TV series. The Prime Universe was not overwritten, the original canon still exists as it always has, however the alternate universe continues on its own path after it was splintered off from the Prime Universe. Almost this exact same scenario has happened before. In the ENT two part episode "In a Mirror, Darkly" We found out what happened to the Defiant from the TOS episode "The Tholian Web" It was sent not only back in time, but to the Mirror Universe. Once again, nothing happened to the Prime Universe, but the course of the Mirror Universe was altered. Advanced 23rd century tech fell into the hands of the Terran Empire, and Hoshi became Empress. Similarly, in the Abrams alternate universe, Nero's incursion brings late 24th century technology from the Prime Universe to the 23rd century alternate universe. This corrupted what would be the normal development of that timeline, resulting in a Starfleet with a changed focus. Their ships were built much bigger, stronger, with faster drive systems and more powerful weapons.

Lets add all this to the fact that any new TV series won't be set in the Abrams alternate universe, it will be set in the Prime Universe. This is due to who owns the rights. Paramount owns the rights to the feature films, CBS owns the rights to the TV shows. All of them. Even IF Abrams wanted to reboot Trek, he couldn't do it without the approval and consent of CBS. There is talk of a 5th season of Enterprise, there is also talk of a new series set in the 25th century using the stories in Star Trek Online. Whatever it turns out to be, it won't involve Abrams alternate universe.

Tyralak wrote:That's because it's not a reboot. This is something a lot of people aren't getting, and I think it's why they get confused. The Abrams films were an expansion of the existing Trek universe, not a replacement.

Nope. Its a reboot. The whole dramatically different technology element should have been a dead give away. This alternate universe is fundamentally different from the Prime universe. Which makes it a reboot.

Which is why ENT was considered to be a reboot rather than an alternate timeline/universe due to its massive divergences from the then established Trek. Oh wait.

Batman wrote:Which is why ENT was considered to be a reboot rather than an alternate timeline/universe due to its massive divergences from the then established Trek. Oh wait.

ST 2009 was admitted to being a reboot. Thats what everyone involved described it. ENT was described as being a prequel. ENT actually tried to fit in. They made mistakes, but they tried to fit within the established continuity. ST 2009 simply used concepts from Trek but completely re-imagined things. They didn't try and fit into Trek, they wanted to make New Trek.

Does that make Yesterday's Enterprise a (limited) reboot?

Gandalf wrote:Does that make Yesterday's Enterprise a (limited) reboot?

Alternate universe is one form of a reboot. But in this case it was just a time travel episode and it looped right back to the original.

Alyeska wrote:

Tyralak wrote:That's because it's not a reboot. This is something a lot of people aren't getting, and I think it's why they get confused. The Abrams films were an expansion of the existing Trek universe, not a replacement.

Nope. Its a reboot. The whole dramatically different technology element should have been a dead give away. This alternate universe is fundamentally different from the Prime universe. Which makes it a reboot.

It's a reboot in the sense of what DC comics has done - everything that happened before, did, but we aren't in that universe anymore. At most the prime timeline was wiped out, and at least this is a timeline existing independently (the line the filmmakers and Paramount have been going with). Everything has the potential to be different in some way, yet what happened before is directly connected to causing the reboot. Hell, if Abrams and company wanted to jump the shark they could probably find a way to cross over into the "Prime" universe (and I stress, if that was done it would be just that). As opposed to just going with "Ignore everything from before!" like say, "Casino Royale".

That secret shipyard; did anyone else think at first it was a Borg cube? The security certainly seems to match.