Planetary Shields (how little we know)

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-01-22 03:36pm

There's only one clear instance of shielding around a Federation planet: the penal colony from TOS "Whom Gods Destroy". We know this shield was capable of blocking transporter operation, but we also know that transporters aren't very hard to stop. The shield apparently circled the planet, since Scotty took the Enterprise to the other side of the globe to try to disable the shield without damaging the penal colony. The attempt to disable the shield with phasers failed: was this from lack of power or inability to bring them down without causing damage to the prison facility (potentially deadly to Kirk and Spock, given the planet's poisonous atmosphere)?

In ST4 we was no evidence of a shield around Earth when the alien probe's communication beam struck the ocean.

We've never heard any mention of a Federation planetary shield in TNG, although we know of at least one alien planet that had one.

Do we know if the shield in "Whom Gods Destroy" was Federation technology? Is it possible that it was a piece of alien equipment that Starfleet was able to utilize but not duplicate?

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2004-01-22 03:54pm

As you state, the "shield" in "Whom Gods Destroy" could have been pretty much the same thing as the one on Rura Penthe. Since we never saw anywhere a shuttle could land, and the atmosphere was either poisonous or very low pressure (evidenced by that exploding Orion Slave Girl), that probably explains why they didn't send a shuttle down.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-22 04:01pm

DaveJB wrote:As you state, the "shield" in "Whom Gods Destroy" could have been pretty much the same thing as the one on Rura Penthe. Since we never saw anywhere a shuttle could land, and the atmosphere was either poisonous or very low pressure (evidenced by that exploding Orion Slave Girl), that probably explains why they didn't send a shuttle down.

It was poisenous. The girl only exploded when Garth triggered a explosive device in her necklace.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-01-22 04:04pm

DaveJB wrote:As you state, the "shield" in "Whom Gods Destroy" could have been pretty much the same thing as the one on Rura Penthe. Since we never saw anywhere a shuttle could land, and the atmosphere was either poisonous or very low pressure (evidenced by that exploding Orion Slave Girl), that probably explains why they didn't send a shuttle down.

The "shield" around Rura Penthe appears to be a natural phenomenon, since the Klingons don't seem to be able to turn it on and off to admit new prisoners.

The "Whom Gods Destroy" shield is clearly a technological achievement.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-01-22 04:17pm

Ted C wrote:
DaveJB wrote:As you state, the "shield" in "Whom Gods Destroy" could have been pretty much the same thing as the one on Rura Penthe. Since we never saw anywhere a shuttle could land, and the atmosphere was either poisonous or very low pressure (evidenced by that exploding Orion Slave Girl), that probably explains why they didn't send a shuttle down.
The "shield" around Rura Penthe appears to be a natural phenomenon, since the Klingons don't seem to be able to turn it on and off to admit new prisoners.

The "Whom Gods Destroy" shield is clearly a technological achievement.

Or they don't ever turn it off to prevent a CLOAKED ship from beaming someone off and use a method of bringing in prisoners that would be only controlled by them.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-22 04:32pm

I think the TMP novelization mentions deflectors protecting Earth. Unfortunately I left my copy at home. (where's Publius when we need him?)

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2004-01-22 05:04pm

Ted C wrote:
Do we know if the shield in "Whom Gods Destroy" was Federation technology? Is it possible that it was a piece of alien equipment that Starfleet was able to utilize but not duplicate?

That's a good thought, Ted, and not without [later] precedent: the Federation was eager to use the Bandi's Farpoint Station/giant jellyfish, too.

ZORN (Cont'd)
We hope a few easily answered
questions about it won't make
Starfleet appreciate it less.

Until Troi chimed in with her emphatic garbage, these unanswered questions seemed "harmless enough" in Picard's eyes. Therefore, if not for overly-inquisitive officers, the Federation probably would have accepted the base, questions and all.

More:

PICARD
Good, since we admire what we've
seen of your construction
techniques. Starfleet may be
interested in your constructing
starbases elsewhere too.

Picard, who knows little about the base, quickly realizes Starfleet could not build similar stations. He's unfazed by that, which tells us Starfleet is willing to use technology they themselves cannot duplicate. That even includes something as important as a starbase.

Speculation:

Elba II's shield might've been left there when the planet's inhabitants abandoned it. (As I recall, its atmosphere was poisonous to humanoid life, so that's a pretty good, if conjectural, motive for leaving.)

Hundreds or more years later, the Federation spotted the planet and figured its inhospitability would make an ideal penal colony; breaking out of its walls only to be killed by a toxic atmosphere is a pretty good deterrant, after all.

While they were building the colony itself, the Starfleet CoE stumbled across a planetary shield generator. As luck would have it, this would prevent an orbiting ship from transporting out a prisoner. It'd also make a "jail break" via orbital bombardment very difficult.

The generator was no doubt studied, but its workings were too sophisticated to reverse-engineer and/or it was otherwise impractical to copy (e.g., power issues).

Hence, we don't see planetary shields surrounding Earth TMP or ST IV, let alone in later episodes of TNG et al. At most, we hear about theatre shields over military installations, like the one the Klingons used on a base at Ty'Gokor ("Apocalypse Rising"). Planetary defense is largely left to starships, though planetary phaser batteries and various degrees of automated orbital defense systems play secondary roles.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2004-01-22 05:15pm

DaveJB wrote:As you state, the "shield" in "Whom Gods Destroy" could have been pretty much the same thing as the one on Rura Penthe. Since we never saw anywhere a shuttle could land, and the atmosphere was either poisonous or very low pressure (evidenced by that exploding Orion Slave Girl), that probably explains why they didn't send a shuttle down.

As I was posting my last message, several of you came in and noted Elba II did have a poisonous atmosphere. (Thanks...I'd hoped that wasn't more evidence I'd lost my mind.

)

Anyway, my first thought was also to liken the shield to Rura Penthe's (natural or not), but there were some lines in "WGD" that suggested otherwise.

I don't have them immediately on hand, but the idea was even if E-nil bombarded the side of the globe opposite the colony, they'd still have to break through the planetary shield. That tells us:

1--The shield does extend around the planet, however large it might be;
2--The shield can withstand fairly intense bombardment by TOS standards.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-01-22 07:14pm

I'm assuming all Federation planets maintain some form of deflector shields. Some are meant to be deployed on a planet-wide scale, others for installations (Ex. The Khitomer outpost). It's also willing to speculate that as with Star Wars, it is not efficent to keep the shields running 24/7 (though it comes down to the abiulity to detect incoming enemy ships in time, as the Breen attack of 2375 shows).

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2004-01-22 08:51pm

Picard, who knows little about the base, quickly realizes Starfleet could not build similar stations.

I was under the impression that it wasn't the sophistication of the base itself, but rather the time in which such a base was constructed. Starfleet might be able to match it's sophistication (or it might not; god only knows what else the space-jellyfish conjured up in that base), but it might be that such bases take them a lot longer to complete than the Bandi apparently built theirs.

Therefore, if not for overly-inquisitive officers, the Federation probably would have accepted the base, questions and all.

It's a free starbase out on the frontier. What's not to like about that?

Hence, we don't see planetary shields surrounding Earth TMP or ST IV, let alone in later episodes of TNG et al.

Er...

TMP: V'ger remotely deactivated all Earth defenses; we never had a chance to see them in operation.
ST4: Shields didn't seem to stop the effects of the probe; IIRC, several starships were disabled, and at least one of them would have had an opportunity to get their shields up. Since the shields have no effect against the probe, again, we never get to see them in action.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-23 01:47am

Voyger encountered a planet with a shield grid in "Workforce" and was not surprised at all. The technology level of the civilization was comparable to the Federation indicating that even the Federation does not planetary shields they are still familiar with the idea.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-01-23 01:53am

evilcat4000 wrote:Voyger encountered a planet with a shield grid in "Workforce" and was not surprised at all. The technology level of the civilization was comparable to the Federation indicating that even the Federation does not planetary shields they are still familiar with the idea.

Same with 'Nightengale'.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-23 01:57am

However we do not the strength of any possible Federation planetary shields. They could be very strong and impeneratrable to all but massive fleet bombardements or they may not be stronger than starbase shields.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-01-23 02:01am

evilcat4000 wrote:However we do not the strength of any possible Federation planetary shields. They could be very strong and impeneratrable to all but massive fleet bombardements or they may not be stronger than starbase shields.

It's too bad that we didn't see the Breen attack on Earth - the cloaking devices withstanding, we could've seen just how much of a kick they have.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-23 02:04am

Judging by DS9 the Breen ships are not very strong. They are probobly equal to Cardassian Galors in terms of shields and firepower. It is their EMP weapon that makes them so dangerous.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-01-23 02:07am

evilcat4000 wrote:Judging by DS9 the Breen ships are not very strong. They are probobly equal to Cardassian Galors in terms of shields and firepower. It is their EMP weapon that makes them so dangerous.

Or made them dangerous until the Feds adapted. Still, it's safe to say the Breen are doing what the Romulans do - upgraing their special weaponry so that the Feds can't adapt.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-01-23 02:09am

JME2 wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:Judging by DS9 the Breen ships are not very strong. They are probobly equal to Cardassian Galors in terms of shields and firepower. It is their EMP weapon that makes them so dangerous.
Or made them dangerous until the Feds adapted. Still, it's safe to say the Breen are doing what the Romulans do - upgraing their special weaponry so that the Feds can't adapt.

Now if only the Feds would develop the brains to do the same for the Borg... *Sigh*

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-01-23 10:53am

JME2 wrote:I'm assuming all Federation planets maintain some form of deflector shields. Some are meant to be deployed on a planet-wide scale, others for installations (Ex. The Khitomer outpost). It's also willing to speculate that as with Star Wars, it is not efficent to keep the shields running 24/7 (though it comes down to the abiulity to detect incoming enemy ships in time, as the Breen attack of 2375 shows).

Would the Breen special weaponry negate the advantage of a shield even if Starfleet Command had one?

I believe there was also mention of a shield around a Federation base in "Gambit", which would indicate the existence of at least theatre shielding around fixed installations.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2004-01-23 11:53am

Uraniun235 wrote: I was under the impression that it wasn't the sophistication of the base itself, but rather the time in which such a base was constructed. Starfleet might be able to match it's sophistication (or it might not; god only knows what else the space-jellyfish conjured up in that base), but it might be that such bases take them a lot longer to complete than the Bandi apparently built theirs.

Hmm...that's a pretty good thought, and a distinct possibility. I'd originally included longer excerpts from the script that might speak to that, but deleted them since they didn't have much to do with my "point." I should give them a second look later.

It's a free starbase out on the frontier. What's not to like about that?

The smell. Groppler Zorn looked as if he hadn't bathed in months...

No, seriously, it's a win-win scenario for Starfleet; I was simply getting at how Starfleet is willing to use alien technology if it suited them. That seems a bit obvious, I know, but was largely an anticipatory thing: I figured someone might disagree with Ted's idea on the basis that most tech we see the Federation use is their own. Or somesuch thing.

Er...

TMP: V'ger remotely deactivated all Earth defenses; we never had a chance to see them in operation.
ST4: Shields didn't seem to stop the effects of the probe; IIRC, several starships were disabled, and at least one of them would have had an opportunity to get their shields up. Since the shields have no effect against the probe, again, we never get to see them in action.

Hence why I only mentioned that as "speculation"

I'd have to agree, if such defenses existed we probably didn't get to see them in the first place. To claim they don't exist on those examples would seem hasty...

Other than something in the TMP novelization, though, I don't recall canon references to global shields on Federation planets--outside Elba II, of course. All we have are blurbs about theatre shields ("Apocalypse Rising," "Sins of the Father," "Gambit") and the idea that Starfleet personnel aren't, as Evilcat4k said, "surprised by" planetary shields.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2004-01-23 11:58am

Ted C wrote: Would the Breen special weaponry negate the advantage of a shield even if Starfleet Command had one?

It could, but I am pretty sure they didn't use that weapon until the second battle at Chin'Toka. The Allied fleet didn't anticipate its effects at all; Sisko and O'Brien even made noises to the effect of, "What the hell was that?"

I believe there was also mention of a shield around a Federation base in "Gambit", which would indicate the existence of at least theatre shielding around fixed installations.

I seem to remember that as well. I'll give it a look.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-23 12:08pm

If we were to use the novel about the Probe from Star Trek 4, I think even an Eclipse Super Star Destroyer would be obliterated easily.

According to the novel, the Probe was built by a "whale" race. Lacking opposable thumbs or hands of any kind, they evolved mental "thumbs" so to speak. Essentially, telekinesis, and they constructed the Probe which also used telekinesis, but on a much more massive scale. And the whales themsleves possessed enough combined mental capability to shatter their orbiting moon into fragments.

Clearly, even from the canon movie, the Probe was in no way threatened at all by Starfleet or any other comparable power. And according to the novel, the Probe had a defensive measure utilizing it's "mental" power to disipate incoming energy, and simply reduced enemy fleets into dust clouds "instanteously".

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2004-01-23 05:34pm

Mr. Roddenberry's The Motion Picture: A Novel contains a brief description of the defences of Earth as of that time:

"Captain..." It was Chekov at the weapons station, his face taut and white. "Captain... all Earth defenses have just gone inoperative!"

"Confirm," said Uhura, her voice shaking. "I'm monitoring reports of forcefield power loss, computers shutting themselves down..."

Until now, there had been at least the hope that the sheer weight of Earth and lunar firepower and powerful forcefield protection might give Nogura bargaining power or at least some delay in which a better understanding could be worked out.

This description is regrettably brief and unspecific, and gives little indication as to the nature of Earth's defences (except that they involve forcefields, computers, and firepower) and to their disposition (except that they exist on Earth and the Moon). It is not clear if there is a single terrestrial/lunar forcefield, or several forcefields. There is also no indication as to how long these defence systems have been in place, and if they remained in future eras. It is entirely possible that the rather perfunctory Martian Defence Perimeter was intended to replace these systems rather than augment them, but there is no direct evidence either way.

PUBLIUS

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-01-24 01:58am

Robert Walper wrote:If we were to use the novel about the Probe from Star Trek 4, I think even an Eclipse Super Star Destroyer would be obliterated easily.

According to the novel, the Probe was built by a "whale" race. Lacking opposable thumbs or hands of any kind, they evolved mental "thumbs" so to speak. Essentially, telekinesis, and they constructed the Probe which also used telekinesis, but on a much more massive scale. And the whales themsleves possessed enough combined mental capability to shatter their orbiting moon into fragments.

Clearly, even from the canon movie, the Probe was in no way threatened at all by Starfleet or any other comparable power. And according to the novel, the Probe had a defensive measure utilizing it's "mental" power to disipate incoming energy, and simply reduced enemy fleets into dust clouds "instanteously".

According the the novel, it also got its ass handed to it by the borg. A Dreadnaught is going to slaughter the thing.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-01-24 02:18am

Ender wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:If we were to use the novel about the Probe from Star Trek 4, I think even an Eclipse Super Star Destroyer would be obliterated easily.

According to the novel, the Probe was built by a "whale" race. Lacking opposable thumbs or hands of any kind, they evolved mental "thumbs" so to speak. Essentially, telekinesis, and they constructed the Probe which also used telekinesis, but on a much more massive scale. And the whales themsleves possessed enough combined mental capability to shatter their orbiting moon into fragments.

Clearly, even from the canon movie, the Probe was in no way threatened at all by Starfleet or any other comparable power. And according to the novel, the Probe had a defensive measure utilizing it's "mental" power to disipate incoming energy, and simply reduced enemy fleets into dust clouds "instanteously".
According the the novel, it also got its ass handed to it by the borg. A Dreadnaught is going to slaughter the thing.

Actually, the Probe didn't get it ass handed to the Borg. According to the novel, a fleet of Borg cubes attacked the Probe, damaging it's memory system, although the Probe suceeded in obliterating the cube fleet afterward.

Afterwards, when the Probe made contact with it's homeworld's main computer, it realized it had modified itself after the Borg encounter to respond to any attack virtually instanteously. That was the defensive/offensive measure I was referring to.

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Planetary Shields (how little we know)

Planetary Shields (how little we know)

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