Picard - general discussion [spoilers]

[Crazedwraith]

If we go by Nemesis, the E-E carried a couple of dozen photon torpedoes and... four Quantuam torpedoes at the time. (I'm sure someone's counted the exact number.) While one assumes she was only carrying a light load for some reason, it's not unreasonable to assume that was the usual proportion of photons to quantums stocked.


What really gets me about Picard this season is the near completely lack of phaser usages on ships. Even when Titan's supposedly cutting lose, she just gives a rather anaemic spread of torpedeos compared to what even the E-D would do when told to cut loose. We've only seen ship phasers used once... to detonate a photorp to give Shrike the slip.

It was particularly noticeably when Intrepid fired on Titan given if they'd used phasers they'd have busted up the nacelles before Titan could warp.

[bilateralrope]

Do I really have to point out haw immeasurably stupid it would be for ALL of Starfleet to be in one place at the same time?

Maybe we could excuse it as the work of changeling infiltrators. Except I don't see how the borg need the fleet all in one place for their plan. All they needed to do is get their assimilation by transporter code into all the Federations transporters. Not just Starfleet, but any civilian transporters. Oh and anyone else the Federation trades technology with.

They didn't need to go after Jack. Once they realized his value, they could just seed many people like him and wait until one matures. Dominion genetic engineering tech might even let them accelerate it. The longer they wait, the more people they assimilate when they finally hit the button.

[Crazedwraith]

What occured to me is the people responsible for Jack's red eye powers and unthinking asskickery plus the people who sent the changelings after him are one and the same but one attempted to get him was foiled by the red eye asskickery.

So was that mind control of him? Because they thwarted their own catspaws which doesn't make sense? Some kind of automatic defence mechanism they ingrained into him? But why?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It's Wolf 359, for fuck's sake

Mea culpa but you knew what I meant.

That said it would have been cool if Janeway and the DS9 crew showed up to help but yeah yeah it's the TNG show no others allowed.

You and Crazedwraith

If we go by Nemesis, the E-E carried a couple of dozen photon torpedoes and... four Quantuam torpedoes at the time. (I'm sure someone's counted the exact number.) While one assumes she was only carrying a light load for some reason, it's not unreasonable to assume that was the usual proportion of photons to quantums stocked.


What really gets me about Picard this season is the near completely lack of phaser usages on ships. Even when Titan's supposedly cutting lose, she just gives a rather anaemic spread of torpedeos compared to what even the E-D would do when told to cut loose. We've only seen ship phasers used once... to detonate a photorp to give Shrike the slip.

It was particularly noticeably when Intrepid fired on Titan given if they'd used phasers they'd have busted up the nacelles before Titan could warp.

It's nine quantum torpedoes and about two dozen photons:

Even in First Contact, the Enterprise launched ten quantums and a couple of photons. In Nemesis we see the two different torpedoes coming from separate launchers. The egregious part when it comes to loadout is that the far smaller Defiant in "What you leave behind" was stated to be down to 45 quantum torpedoes. It also cannot be that difficult to refit older Starfleet vessels to fire them if it can be done with the Excelsior-class Lakota

The dearth of phaser blasts bugged me too, and the extremely slow speed of the torpedoes for that matter.

They didn't need to go after Jack. Once they realized his value, they could just seed many people like him and wait until one matures. Dominion genetic engineering tech might even let them accelerate it. The longer they wait, the more people they assimilate when they finally hit the button.

The Borg don't even need to do that, they already have the required tech.
That the Federation would continue to network their ships in such a way even after Jurati demonstrated exactly how huge a vulnerability that is by disabling them all when plugging into the Stargazer is another level of stupid entirely.

[bilateralrope]

What occured to me is the people responsible for Jack's red eye powers and unthinking asskickery plus the people who sent the changelings after him are one and the same but one attempted to get him was foiled by the red eye asskickery.

So was that mind control of him? Because they thwarted their own catspaws which doesn't make sense? Some kind of automatic defence mechanism they ingrained into him? But why?

These changelings don't seem too smart. Look how they went after Jack: Wave after wave of changelings attacking and boarding the Crusher's ship. Instead of infiltrating whatever organizations supply them and waiting for them to walk into a trap. Not suspecting anything until the forcefields go up.

Or the borg might have withheld information from them. Maybe the borg wanted Jack provoked into tapping into his powers.

I wonder how many changelings were attacked by the assimilated Starfleet crews for being unassimilated.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Star Trek safety at a new WTF level...but well.

Plot-wise Geordi did mention that the E-D was the "last operational ship" not plugged to the network. So probably the other goodies at the museum despite them being old ships weren't even operational at all for some reason (no fuel, warp core removed....etc) as opposed to Geordi's pet project which could be explained by him preparing for a reminiscing cruise tour for his fellow buddies of E-D.

The forums I often went to had some significant "but the Voyager has the Bat-Armor and transphasic torpedoes", but I guess due to this being a TNG show the VOY fans will have to wait for a Janeway nostalagia series to happen.

If Jack is the key into controlling all starfleet it seems that the (cliche-ish) solution will come down to him (and Picard?) switching off the connection or something like that. The genetic mess could be resolved later via some throwaway line or technobabble at the incident. The Borg fleet could be taken down with Jack reversing his "voice" to the Borg fleet and doing whatever the writers have in mind.

[bilateralrope]

The forums I often went to had some significant "but the Voyager has the Bat-Armor and transphasic torpedoes", but I guess due to this being a TNG show the VOY fans will have to wait for a Janeway nostalagia series to happen.

Voyager also had those bioneural gel packs. If they died in the decades Voyager has been in the museum then Voyager isn't going anywhere. It's not like Starfleet would want to keep using them after they heard about Neelix's cooking.

As for torpedos, I'd be surprised if there are any torpedos on that station beyond its defensive armament. Geordi did mention drones loading the Enterprises torpedo tubes. So we are talking about a limited number of torpedoes and a limited number of drones to transfer them. Which also makes me think we might have seen every organic crewmember on that station, especially since nobody reported the Titan visiting.

There is also the question of what Picard plans to do about the borg. I doubt it's a straight up fight as I don't see how they would stand a chance, even if they managed to launch the entire museum fleet. Also, if they won somehow, the destruction of so much of the fleet would just open the Federation up to an attack from someone else. So I'm thinking some combination of technobabble, diplomacy and maybe getting someone else to bring their fleet.

[Alferd Packer]

I'll be interested to see how they resolve this, but I don't think that anything is going to dissuade me from the notion that they basically did the seasons in the wrong order. This should've been the first season, introducing Raffi and Seven as new-to-the-series characters. Then, do the first season story, introducing the other characters (who might as well not exist at this point), then wrap things up with the second season. Because each season has essentially no bearing on the others, aside from a few easily-corrected plot points, I think it just makes more sense to start with the TNG crew and then introduce new characters with whom Picard can go on adventures.

[AniThyng]

I know it will never happen but the lower decks fanboy in me wants that fleet to be made up of Cali and Oberon classes that didn't even rate being called part of "all" Starfleet ;p

[bilateralrope]

I know it will never happen but the lower decks fanboy in me wants that fleet to be made up of Cali and Oberon classes that didn't even rate being called part of "all" Starfleet ;p

The only problem I see there is that they probably suffered the same assimilated-by-transporter crew as the rest of Starfleet.

I was more thinking of a fleet from other factions. Maybe Klingon. Maybe Dominion. Maybe anyone who fears the borg gaining a foothold.

[Lord Revan]

I know it will never happen but the lower decks fanboy in me wants that fleet to be made up of Cali and Oberon classes that didn't even rate being called part of "all" Starfleet ;p

The only problem I see there is that they probably suffered the same assimilated-by-transporter crew as the rest of Starfleet.

I was more thinking of a fleet from other factions. Maybe Klingon. Maybe Dominion. Maybe anyone who fears the borg gaining a foothold.

Honestly the Lower Decks primary cast would be "too old" (it's set in the mid 2380s and Picard season 3 is 2401) to be effected, that said they probably would be either been promoted past junior officers or retired by this point.

[bilateralrope]

Yes. Too old and likely replaced with younger crew.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The four ensigns would probably have reached the rank of Captain and gotten their own ships in the space of 20 years. Except Mariner, she screws up too often to be promoted

[AniThyng]

I know it will never happen but the lower decks fanboy in me wants that fleet to be made up of Cali and Oberon classes that didn't even rate being called part of "all" Starfleet ;p

The only problem I see there is that they probably suffered the same assimilated-by-transporter crew as the rest of Starfleet.

I was more thinking of a fleet from other factions. Maybe Klingon. Maybe Dominion. Maybe anyone who fears the borg gaining a foothold.

Honestly the Lower Decks primary cast would be "too old" (it's set in the mid 2380s and Picard season 3 is 2401) to be effected, that said they probably would be either been promoted past junior officers or retired by this point.

Too old to be assimilated yeah but still young enough to be shot by their ensigns...

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

LD could probably do a "meeting future selves" episode to connect the event. TBH the issues involved so far are just begging to have some comical twist in them.

[bilateralrope]

A cynical thought is that the mass casualties among everyone in Starfleet over 25 is at least partially because someone wants to make a Trek series with younger actors and needed a justification.

[Formless]

It does give me some twisted pleasure knowing the crew of the Protostar have been Borged as a result of all this. Assuming the crazy level of genetic splicing the main character has doesn't make him immune to this kind of assimilation, of course.

[blahface]

I thought this season had promise, but the last two episodes are a massive let down. Did they really need to bring the Borg into this as the final boss? The end solution was pretty simple and straight forward and I feel the Borg assimilation technology they used could have been developed a long while ago.

Also, I'm really bummed out that Captain Shaw died. I'm OK with good characters dying, but If he is the only good new character from new Trek, then he should be kept alive.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

The whole conspiracy plot became kind of unconvincing after it was laid out (infiltrators and genetic rewriting), but hey, anything for a final battle.

Ending battle seemed eerily familiar. Data even says "Here goes nothing" before doing the whole maneuvering thingy. It's like the writers read Mike's "Battles" webpage and decided to do it somehow

Taking down the spacedock = taking down Earth's shield? It's like there's gonna be a "shield generator globe" debate over this

The Borg going near extinct(?) was kind of weird since the alt-verse Queen from S2 was able to start out from scratch with limited resources. My head-canon would go to either because she's from alt-verse or the effects of Janeway's virus somehow giving the prime universe Borg damage beyond repopulating (but wouldn't that make the Queen blame Janeway more than Picard? XD)

[Soontir C'boath]

I thought this season had promise, but the last two episodes are a massive let down. Did they really need to bring the Borg into this as the final boss? The end solution was pretty simple and straight forward and I feel the Borg assimilation technology they used could have been developed a long while ago.

Also, I'm really bummed out that Captain Shaw died. I'm OK with good characters dying, but If he is the only good new character from new Trek, then he should be kept alive.

It was also a weirdly played out scene as Seven just cries over his body. Usually the whole point of sacrificing your life is to buy time, but all of a sudden, they're not getting shot at.

Search your feelings father, I know there's still good inside you! The season finale felt like roles were reversed. Instead of Luke convincing his father to turn from the dark side. It's Jean Luc turning his son away from the Borg.

And of course, the Borg half cube just happens to leave a giant hole for a Galaxy class starship to fly into its core like an unfinished Death Star.

I mean, I suppose writers' imaginations have never been that great. Given Return of the Jedi is basically a rehash of A New Hope with Ewoks, but come on.

[AniThyng]

Who was the narrator of he final captains log? I think it's Tuvok but I'm not certain...

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Who was the narrator of he final captains log? I think it's Tuvok but I'm not certain...

It was Riker.

[Formless]

Seeing the effects of Voyager's neurolitic virus basically decimate the Borg and explain not only why they resort to cheap tricks to assimilate the Federation but also change their very philosophy to "annihilation" of any non-assimilated being really shows just how much Voyager's writers ruined the Borg in the end. I had really hoped the writers of Picard had forgotten that nonsense and used the destruction of the Transwarp hub instead as an explanation for their absence for the last 20 years, but nope! Fucking Voyager fanboys. They were supposed to be the coolest villain because they were goddamn cyborgs, but in the end they were reduced to an actual virus that could only survive by plot convenience and cooperation with another villain from a better show.

And I could almost forgive that if there was more lead up to the finale to show the heroes working on the solution to the plague; show that the Borg went the biological assimilation rout because they were getting cleverer rather than getting desperate, and actually explain their relationship with the Dominion or changings and how the two factions met each other in the first place. Show how they adapted to the neurolytic virus, not succumbed to it. Even Voyager's writers supposed that it simply put them back a few decades, not destroyed them. How do you get writers that are worse hacks than Rick Berman and Brennan Braga? How? Is it too much to ask for for two more episodes to properly pace the goddamn show?

[Crazedwraith]

That was disappointing. Return of the Jedi with the Enterprise-D cast in the role of the Millennium Falcon. A tie up on based on the power of love between Jean-Luc and Jack, a relationship I just can't give a shit about it because it's so by the numbers.

40 minutes of by the book tidy up and 20 minutes of unadulterated schmaltz.

The two crowning pieces of overdoneness. The Titan, an old neo-constitution class is rechristened the Enterprise-G with Seven a brand new captain in command? The Enterprise is supposed to be the jewel of the fleet, the flagship, the most prized captaincy. This does not follow. I don't particularly like the E-F but it at least it was a new design. Not the repackaged bollocks of the neo-connie.

And then Q's reappearance, handwaving his death and saying he'll be watching Jack. Are we actually getting an E-G, Captain Seven and Jack spin-off? Because if not this is complete bollocks.

And pulling an Age of Ultron on Seven's version of "Engage". Really? Like nobody in-universe made a big deal of it until Saru's thing in Disco Season 3. It's a stupid thing to make a deal of in or out of universe but especially in universe.

[Batman]

'They were still in spacedock. Maybe it was a variation of 'Take us out' or the 'ahead quarter impulse' that so annoyed Saavik in TWOK or even the totally regulation far as I can tell 'thrusters ahead' from TMP, but keeping that from us would be even more strange. And why spin-off? Who says there won't be a 4th (and possibly more) seasons? Yes, Picard was only planned for 3. The german Perry Rhodan print series was originally planned for 50 or so issues. the latest issue is #3218.