What is the UFP's future?

PST: discuss Star Trek without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

Post Reply
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6743
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

What is the UFP's future?

Post by FaxModem1 » 2018-09-22 01:50am

Let's assume, for the moment, that we're not going to see anything post-Nemesis for a while. What is the Federation's future? What will happen to it? We know, from Voyager and Enterprise, that it will survive in some form to the 29th and 31st centuries, but that is about all we know.

So, making supposition, what will happen to the United Federation of Planets, immediate future, short term future, and long term future?

Do you think it will continue to expand, gobbling up worlds and governments as the years go on? What will that mean for galactic relations? What will it mean for the Federation as a whole? I imagine at some point that bringing in an entire interstellar government like the Klingon Empire, or the remains of the Romulan Empire or Cardassian Union would shift demographics a lot when it comes to polling. What would happen there?

Or would such expansion simply not happen, and the Federation just continues to exist, not being destroyed, but not making progress on expansion either?

Or, let's say that Daniels and the crew of the Relativity are from an alternate timeline or whatever. What would cause the destruction of the Federation? What would make it fragment or collapse? Will the Dominon or Borg come again once they have had a sufficient time to rebuild their forces?

Basically, this is a thought experiment on the long term survivability of a government such as the United Federation of Planets, and what will happen to it.

Discuss.
Image

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2057
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Q99 » 2018-09-22 02:07am

Exploration and diplomacy is their core, it'd take a heck of a lot to get them to stop expanding. I think the next big shift is incorporating the Klingons- who themselves will likely go through notable reform first.

And they will have to take on the Borg in force.

User avatar
B5B7
Jedi Knight
Posts: 722
Joined: 2005-10-22 02:02am
Location: Perth Western Australia
Contact:

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by B5B7 » 2018-09-22 05:28am

I think the key to this is what Quark said in DS9 - that the Federation has an absorbtion ability because its enemies do not perceive its real core - it seems soft but takes its potential opponents unaware. Quark's actual quote was something different (about synthehol) but had the same meaning.
The Borg are doomed; they think they are masters of assimilation, but they have nothing on the Federation.
TVWP: "Janeway says archly, "Sometimes it's the female of the species that initiates mating." Is the female of the species trying to initiate mating now? Janeway accepts Paris's apology and tells him she's putting him in for a commendation. The salamander sex was that good."
"Not bad - for a human"-Bishop to Ripley
GALACTIC DOMINATION Empire Board Game visit link below:
GALACTIC DOMINATION

User avatar
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10555
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Crazedwraith » 2018-09-22 05:41am

It was Root Beer

The Borg, S8472 and the Dominion are about the only real threats left and that's only if you don't believe Endgame's implication that it was the end of the borg.

The Klingons were over extended and broken by the dominion War, the Romulans were fucked up by Nemesis and the 2009 movie.

The Federation should expand and there's nothing stopping them expanding around or even through other societies that's how space works. Their volumes of space could interpenetrate.

They can gain influence in Cardassian space like they did in Bajoran, gain favour by rebuilding.
To the brave passengers and crew of the Kobayashi Maru... sucks to be you - Peter David

User avatar
Imperial Overlord
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11893
Joined: 2004-08-19 04:30am
Location: The Tower at Charm
Contact:

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2018-09-22 06:46am

Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-09-22 05:41am

The Klingons were over extended and broken by the dominion War,
The Klingons were hardly broken by the Dominion War. They suffered heavy casualties, but also experienced political (and potentially social) renewal. Their rivals also suffered heavy casualties and the Federation is an allied power. While there's no doubt the Federation has the best seat at the table and is in the best position to expand short term and, in the long term, become a social and political hegemon through a combination of being a trusted partner and arbitrator as well as shear economic, military, and technological strength.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.

Librium Arcana

User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37328
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Contact:

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Sea Skimmer » 2018-09-22 12:05pm

Very slow expansion seems likely. None of the other major powers are ever going to join the Federation, it's too blatantly dominated by humans and Earth centered, but we saw a lot of minor 1 planet or 1 system scale powers in TNG and DS9, though sometimes just from aliens in the bar, that might join over time. The Federation also has a bunch of unexplored directions colonists can branch out in. But I would figure this would be very slow because the federation already has so many tiny colonies on habitable planets that could take centuries to populate, and the main appeal of new colonies is probably small sects of people wanting more political autonomy. Given how advanced the space station tech is in this universe the total incentive to physically expand is very low other then in the quest for very rare raw materials. And that could be more and more automated.

The Federation could get far more populated and powerful basically without much geographic expansion.
Crazedwraith wrote:
2018-09-22 05:41am

The Borg, S8472 and the Dominion are about the only real threats left and that's only if you don't believe Endgame's implication that it was the end of the borg.
The Federation already seemed to have more or less absolute anti Borg weapons by that point anyway, though perhaps they wouldn't work as well in the 31st century.

But Voyager encountered a lot of other species that were thriving, and considering the Federation is only a few centuries old in the 2300s, by the 31st Century some of them could have turned into Federation rivaling factions. Its a question of transport as to if they matter or not to the Feds directly, but that universe had a lot of engine of the week concepts being thrown around.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

User avatar
montypython
Jedi Master
Posts: 1109
Joined: 2004-11-30 03:08am

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by montypython » 2018-09-22 02:11pm

Part of what I liked about the Star Fleet Battles/Star Fleet Command series is seeing factions like the Interstellar Concordium that were sort of like the Federation but having a different approach that may not necessarily mesh with Federation standards, and the Federation having to deal with them with the attendant consequences.

User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 9488
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: Bound in a nutshell

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2018-09-22 02:41pm

I would second the comment that the only powers that can pose an existential threat are the Borg, the Dominion or Species 8472 - though I think the greatest blockage to continual Federation expansion would be their own technology. Warp drive just isn't fast enough for a galactic-scale organisation. If they are able to develop something faster, like transwarp, quantum slipstream or whatever then fine. But if they can develop that, so too can the Dominion. In fact I'd be extremely surprised if the Founders haven't got Vorta scientists working on that exact problem as soon as the wormhole was blocked.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2057
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Q99 » 2018-09-27 04:03am

Note the Borg were adapting to the transphasic torpedoes during endgame- they were strong weapons but not absolute, and next time the Borg are actually going to have some warning. Of course the Federation also has a tech boost, so.
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
2018-09-22 02:41pm
I would second the comment that the only powers that can pose an existential threat are the Borg, the Dominion or Species 8472 - though I think the greatest blockage to continual Federation expansion would be their own technology. Warp drive just isn't fast enough for a galactic-scale organisation. If they are able to develop something faster, like transwarp, quantum slipstream or whatever then fine. But if they can develop that, so too can the Dominion. In fact I'd be extremely surprised if the Founders haven't got Vorta scientists working on that exact problem as soon as the wormhole was blocked.
That said, I'm pretty sure the Federation's advancement rate is higher, with their greater diversity, exploration and trade to find more techs, and the fact that even being younger the two's tech was pretty close.

And of course the motherload that is Voyager, who has both info on Slipstream and data on Borg transwarp.
montypothon wrote:Part of what I liked about the Star Fleet Battles/Star Fleet Command series is seeing factions like the Interstellar Concordium that were sort of like the Federation but having a different approach that may not necessarily mesh with Federation standards, and the Federation having to deal with them with the attendant consequences.
Yea, running into other composite multi-species civs would be interesting. A diplomacy-war rather than a gun war where they each try and attract species in reach of both.

User avatar
Tribble
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2420
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Tribble » 2018-10-09 02:45pm

IIRC Daniels once mentioned in ENT that by the 26th century all the major AQ powers were part of the Federation. A lot can happen in the meantime though.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage

User avatar
Tribble
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2420
Joined: 2008-11-18 11:28am
Location: stardestroyer.net

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by Tribble » 2018-10-09 03:05pm

In terms of long term competition, apart from the Borg and Dominion theres the Krenim (assuming it's time tech still gets built eventually), the anti-telepath space nazis, the Earth-Dinosaurs, the Donut Planet (which could be ridiculously advanced if it survived) etc. Plenty of civilizations which can compete.

Plus theres whatever other horrors at the frontier of Federation space that they haven't run into yet - IIRC Q once mentioned that the Borg were just a preview to what's out there.

Now that the show with Picard is being developed we might see some more of that era / time line, which would be neat.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - The official Troll motto, as stated by Adam Savage

bilateralrope
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3852
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-10-09 03:59pm

Tribble wrote:
2018-10-09 03:05pm
In terms of long term competition, apart from the Borg and Dominion theres the Krenim (assuming it's time tech still gets built eventually), the anti-telepath space nazis, the Earth-Dinosaurs, the Donut Planet (which could be ridiculously advanced if it survived) etc. Plenty of civilizations which can compete.
How many of those are expansionist ?

Because those who just want to be left alone will find that the Federation will leave them alone. Unless they decide they don't want to be left alone any longer.

If there is even the slightest opening for communication, then the root beer will eventually take effect.

User avatar
montypython
Jedi Master
Posts: 1109
Joined: 2004-11-30 03:08am

Re: What is the UFP's future?

Post by montypython » 2018-10-10 10:31pm

bilateralrope wrote:
2018-10-09 03:59pm
Tribble wrote:
2018-10-09 03:05pm
In terms of long term competition, apart from the Borg and Dominion theres the Krenim (assuming it's time tech still gets built eventually), the anti-telepath space nazis, the Earth-Dinosaurs, the Donut Planet (which could be ridiculously advanced if it survived) etc. Plenty of civilizations which can compete.
How many of those are expansionist ?

Because those who just want to be left alone will find that the Federation will leave them alone. Unless they decide they don't want to be left alone any longer.

If there is even the slightest opening for communication, then the root beer will eventually take effect.
Which is why having something like the Interstellar Concordium present is good to demonstrate that there are alternative approaches versus the UFP.

Post Reply