Borg Cubes have hulls open to space...the heck?

[Boeing 757]

Recently I had a debate with a Trek wanker who claims that the Enterprise-D's phasers are exceedingly powerful because they can "gouge 600 meter holes in a superior ship: the Borg Cube." However, my answer to him was that the hulls of Borg ships are open and exposed to the vacuum of space, so that the Cube's hull hardly provided an adequate measure of protection against kinetic impactors and weapons such as phasers.

This had me thinking. Below are a few pictures of Borg ships, and it is readily apparent that their hulls are simply a conglomeration of a misshapen and jumbled network of pipes, conduits, ducts and other more important features needed for the normal operation of the cube. Why have the Borg chosen such a dumb and laughable design? Certainly there must be an operational purpose behind this hugest of design-flaws? Further more, it's not as if this "openness" is limited to a few meters of the hull. You can actually damned well see rather far into those cubes. Did the Borg somehow forget to build armor into their ships?

[Imperial528]

It's quite possible that most of the civilizations the Borg fight don't have the firepower to actually penetrate their shields due to the Borg's advanced power generation and adaptive capabilities. We do see armored cubes (e.g., the tactical cube) that are likely what are used as front-line combatants against species that can readily damage Borg vessels.

Combined with a want for efficiency, it would make sense that the standard cube (which seems to be a sort of long range probe-and-harvest ship and a general vessel) does not have much armor, since its shields can suffice against most threats and due to their advanced warp drives it can probably run away from any major threat.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

It's quite possible that most of the civilizations the Borg fight don't have the firepower to actually penetrate their shields due to the Borg's advanced power generation and adaptive capabilities. We do see armored cubes (e.g., the tactical cube) that are likely what are used as front-line combatants against species that can readily damage Borg vessels.

Combined with a want for efficiency, it would make sense that the standard cube (which seems to be a sort of long range probe-and-harvest ship and a general vessel) does not have much armor, since its shields can suffice against most threats and due to their advanced warp drives it can probably run away from any major threat.

Indeed. The bog-standard Borg cube pictured above handed Starfleet its ass at Wolf 359, and was only defeated by Act of Plot clever use of a phishing attack to gain access to a exploit in the Cube's OS.

Also, having the Cube be a box-shaped collection of tubes, pipes, and nodes makes perfect sense, when you consider how the Borg employ them . . . i.e. send them in ones and twos in long-range exploratory forays. The Cube's repair process appears to involve re-plumbing of pipes and nodes to patch over damaged areas; which suggests they can later fabricate more tubes later to make up for the re-routing. It would seem to be far easier to manufacture relatively thin-walled tubes in-situ than it would be to manufacture thick slabs of armor, or precisely machined pieces of the traditional pressure hull. Especially since they can use this ability to re-route and re-plumb to open up avenues to quickly get wreckage from their vanquished foes into the ship's fabrication facilities.

[Sea Skimmer]

Given that we see Borg in First Contact walking outside the ships hull with no apparent problems, its possible large areas of the ships are depressurized normally and not sealed at all. The same movie says the Borg like conditions hot and humid, so the spacewalking almost certainly does have time limits but that seems fine when the drones spend most time in the power socket beds. No hull plating would indeed make for very easy repairs and maintenance access.

[seanrobertson]

Perhaps the outer hull is an aggregate of pipes, tubes and stuff that looks like photo-etched brass parts. That doesn't mean any part of the ship's open to space.

This shot from "Q Who?" shows a thin but solid surface underneath the greeblies. The holes you see quickly seal themselves and Riker remarks, "They're continuing to regenerate!"

[Singular Intellect]

Given that we see Borg in First Contact walking outside the ships hull with no apparent problems, its possible large areas of the ships are depressurized normally and not sealed at all.

This would be consistent with the very large interior hangers Borg vessels have to tractor in and assimilate entire vessels. No point in pressurizing such large volumes for no good reason.

[Connor MacLeod]

given their evident self repair capability, armor on the outside (or just leaving it open to space) may be a deliberate design consideration. They can always just repair the damaged sections and it all acts as extra protection to whatever is inside the cube (and more vital.) If they were going to stick the armor on the ship, I'd put it inside the structure around those vital locations they couldn't easily repair (or are vital for the functioning of the ship) and force the enemy to blast down to reach it.

One does not neccesarily have to or want to always stick huge slabs of armor on the outside of something (or even over the entire ship.. and that even assumes armor HAS some value in the universe in question.)

If you want a crazy speculation idea, I'd think the borg cubes are actually borg Spheres with some weird superstructures built up around them over time. Didn't the sphere in First contact exist within the cube itself?

[Singular Intellect]

given their evident self repair capability, armor on the outside (or just leaving it open to space) may be a deliberate design consideration. They can always just repair the damaged sections and it all acts as extra protection to whatever is inside the cube (and more vital.) If they were going to stick the armor on the ship, I'd put it inside the structure around those vital locations they couldn't easily repair (or are vital for the functioning of the ship) and force the enemy to blast down to reach it.

One thing I've concluded is that the Borg shielding concept could be one of the most effective ones in the Trek universe, at least from the Borg's perspective. How many times has the Enterprise encountered some weapon or effect that bypasses their shields like they are not there? Their standard 'block most stuff' shielding seems to be vulnerable to several hacks and ineffective in multiple cases.

The Borg on other hand seem to generally let the enemy fire first and see what they are using as a weapon. The sheer size of Borg vessels giving leeway for extensive damage, their complete disregard for individual deaths, fast repair capabilities and dedicated mindset to optimizing defenses for specific attacks ends up producing an effect that makes them seem nigh unstoppable to most enemies. It doesn't hurt that optimizing their defenses in such way would permit them allocate their total shield output towards defending against such specific attacks, thus contributing to the perception of enormously powerful shielding on their part, once they've determined what to specifically defend against. This would also explain why a creative enemy like Federation that adapts in turn and continuously changes the properties of their weapons can punch through Borg shielding, although even that tactic seems to have limited effect after awhile. I think one could safely assume that Borg vessels, even if defending against multiple types of attacks, would still be able to generate some impressive shielding output against each one.

One does not neccesarily have to or want to always stick huge slabs of armor on the outside of something (or even over the entire ship.. and that even assumes armor HAS some value in the universe in question.)

The Voyager series did demonstrate that at some point the Borg can and do have vessels that can be significantly armored:

How numerous or recently implemented this class of vessel is anyone's guess. This type wasn't seen at all until after the Borg conflict with Species 8472, so it's possible it may be a recent design effort to adapt to an enemy that is typically blowing past their conventional shielding capacities.

If you want a crazy speculation idea, I'd think the borg cubes are actually borg Spheres with some weird superstructures built up around them over time. Didn't the sphere in First contact exist within the cube itself?

I don't see how that's strong evidence for your idea. Borg cube vessels have massive hangers relative to their volume to begin with, so it wouldn't be a stretch they could and would occasionally carry around support vessels. The fact such a sphere didn't escaped the Best of Both Worlds cube despite having an even longer escape timeframe suggests that cube didn't have one (at least at that time). The Borg may have included the sphere vessel in that incident as a potential backup/support vessel if Starfleet mustered a stronger defense than they anticipated (as we saw in Voyager's Endgame, even a single sphere is a threat to a fleet of Federation ships and can withstand their combined firepower for some time). It's also possible the sphere was included specifically as a backup time travel plan prior, although it struck me that plan was a last minute implementation and not an actual primary goal.

[Batman]

It should be noted that the BoBW cube was essentially untouched by the time it self-destructed, and-...well, it self-destructed, whereas the one in First Contact was (however slowly[/i] getting torn apart by Starfleet. It's possible the self destruct simply doesn't trigger the Sphere launch or that doesn't happen automatically to begin with. While I can't recall any evidence for the Sphere being standard as being the core of the run-of-the-mill Borg cube, BoBW doesn't provide conclusive evidence that it isn't.

[Singular Intellect]

It should be noted that the BoBW cube was essentially untouched by the time it self-destructed, and-...well, it self-destructed, whereas the one in First Contact was (however slowly[/i] getting torn apart by Starfleet.

The cube was being damaged by the Federation fleet in First Contact, but when the fleet combined firepower on it's magical weak spot Picard sensed through his Borg link, the cube was actually destroyed by some kind of chain reaction effect. It seems plausible this was also a self destruct mechanism. This would be consistent with BoBW and is backed by Seven of Nine's assertion in Voyager's 'Dark Frontier' that 'when critically damaged, Borg technology self destructs'. It also may have been a chain reaction effect brought about by the continuous damage and repair on the cube during an extended battle timeframe. There's no reason to assume their fast regeneration processes don't come with costs (at least in an ongoing battle scenario), and one of those costs could be increasing instabilities that, if pin pointed, can result in critical damage points that can destroy the entire ship. Although if that's the case, at least give the Borg some credit, that such points 'don't appear to be a vital system' according to Data's sensor scans.

It's possible the self destruct simply doesn't trigger the Sphere launch or that doesn't happen automatically to begin with. While I can't recall any evidence for the Sphere being standard as being the core of the run-of-the-mill Borg cube, BoBW doesn't provide conclusive evidence that it isn't.

Admittedly it's conjecture either way. We do at least know that a Borg cube can carry a fully functional Borg sphere internally for some purposes.

I think it's worth noting that the Borg sphere that departed the cube in First Contact did so via a hatch that was precisely matched to the diameter of the sphere and was also significantly off center of the Borg cube itself. This doesn't make sense if the sphere expected to be the central part of the cube and it begs the question of why such a precisely matched hatch exists in the first place if this isn't a routine operation.

[Captain Seafort]

While I can't recall any evidence for the Sphere being standard as being the core of the run-of-the-mill Borg cube, BoBW doesn't provide conclusive evidence that it isn't.

FC also provides evidence, albeit inconclusive, that the BoBW cube had a sphere aboard - the opening scene of Picard's flashback to his assimilation depicted a Tokomak greater than 500m in diameter, but so hugely so, which would fit with the 600m diameter sphere.

The cube was being damaged by the Federation fleet in First Contact, but when the fleet combined firepower on it's magical weak spot Picard sensed through his Borg link, the cube was actually destroyed by some kind of chain reaction effect.

All Trek ships go up in a chain reaction when the explode. The simpler explanation is that Picard did no more than order concentrated fire on a single point, and punched through the weakened shields. From there the initial explosion set off secondaries just as in any other ship.

[aussiemuscle308]

it makes sense to only pressurize those areas that need it. it'd save a lot of resources and would limit atmosphere breathing invaders. might be harder to keep it warm and humid though. I don't think Voyager series thought this through.

[seanrobertson]

Guys,

I'm extremely tired, so I'm going to be a bit lazy here. I'm not watch an entire episode and/or pour over the relevant script, but ...

I am all but certain that the derelict Borg cube we see in "Unity" was completely powered down -- and yet, Starfleet personnel were able to beam inside the thing and still breathe comfortably.

One might argue that the cube we see in TNG and the FC/VGR models are different cube classes altogether. As such, that the latter must have some kind of solid hull underneath all those bits and pieces is a foregone conclusion: no power, no forcefields. No forcefields, nothing to keep folks breathing inside except a tight seal around the whole ship.

As to the former, eh ... it depends on how you interpret the evidence: i.e., do we step outside complete suspension of disbelief and figure that the cube we see in TNG is, in fact, identical to the bigger-budget versions; or, since they look different and we treat visuals like hard empiricists, the lattice-work cube might have sections exposed to space where the other version doesn't?

IMO, the Borg would consider large areas directly exposed to vacuum -- and, as such, the need for energizing forcefields at all times -- an inefficient use of their resources. To that end, I respectfully point back to my earlier post Underneath the tubes, pipes and whatever the fuck all that stuff's supposed to be, we DO see a solid hull in the process of filling back in. If you doubt me, watch the last 10 minutes or so of "Q Who?" to see the regeneration in action.

P.S. -- Wonky as it is, we see several Borg/former who were assimilated at Wolf 359 ("Unity," "Unimatrix Zero"). That lends some credence to the idea that Locutus' cube had a "holy shit, abandon ship!" escape vessel aboard, and probably a rather fast one at that since said survivors ventured deep into the Delta Quadrant in considerably less than 4-5 years (? That's a rough guess. I can't remember exactly when VGR's third season was supposed to take place).

[Batman]

Since in TNG 'life support is down' means 'we'll all asphyxiate within minutes' despite the fact that on a ship that size there's hours of breatheable air even if life support is completely shot (probably more for something the size of a Borg cube) shouldn't a completely powered down Borg cube also have no breathable atmosphere?

[Alien-Carrot]

P.S. -- Wonky as it is, we see several Borg/former who were assimilated at Wolf 359 ("Unity," "Unimatrix Zero"). That lends some credence to the idea that Locutus' cube had a "holy shit, abandon ship!" escape vessel aboard, and probably a rather fast one at that since said survivors ventured deep into the Delta Quadrant in considerably less than 4-5 years (? That's a rough guess. I can't remember exactly when VGR's third season was supposed to take place).

This is answered in First Contact.

When Picard first sees the borg queen he asks how she survived the destruction of the cube at Wolf 359
She answers with time travel.

[seanrobertson]

P.S. -- Wonky as it is, we see several Borg/former who were assimilated at Wolf 359 ("Unity," "Unimatrix Zero"). That lends some credence to the idea that Locutus' cube had a "holy shit, abandon ship!" escape vessel aboard, and probably a rather fast one at that since said survivors ventured deep into the Delta Quadrant in considerably less than 4-5 years (? That's a rough guess. I can't remember exactly when VGR's third season was supposed to take place).

This is answered in First Contact.

When Picard first sees the borg queen he asks how she survived the destruction of the cube at Wolf 359
She answers with time travel.

She certainly hinted at that, yes ("You think in such three-dimensional terms!"). The question is, when did she or anyone aboard the cube travel through time? The Enterprise-D was near the cube for awhile before it self-destructed. One would think they'd detect what they call a temporal displacement, especially since the only time we've seen the Borg time travel, they needed a sphere to make the trip. Perhaps a sphere was dispatched from the cube sometime between the battle at Wolf359 and the cube's encroachment on Sector 001?

[Stark]

Isn't she clearly just talking about her identity rather than her physical body?

Saying someone on a ship that has been childishly tricked into blowing itself up would use a time machine to escape instead of using their control of THE ENTIRE COLLECTIVE OF THE BORG MANS to stop the ship exploding is a pretty strange solution to this 'problem' (which doesn't exist because the Queen is 100% full of shit).

[Flagg]

See, it's clear in the film that the Queen is the Borg. Not a leader, not some special unit, but the embodiment of the actual Borg hivemind. Which makes the "3 dimensions" line make sense without adding the retardidity of time travel into it. She even says that. "I am the beginning and the end, the one who is many". Then Voyager took a giant dump on it.

[seanrobertson]

Isn't she clearly just talking about her identity rather than her physical body?

Saying someone on a ship that has been childishly tricked into blowing itself up would use a time machine to escape instead of using their control of THE ENTIRE COLLECTIVE OF THE BORG MANS to stop the ship exploding is a pretty strange solution to this 'problem' (which doesn't exist because the Queen is 100% full of shit).

Oh, I agree, it's convoluted as fuck. Flagg's right. The Queen's identity as the Collective itself transcends a single body and, hence, time.

Still, there are drones and former drones in ST:VGR (the bald chick in "Unity," some friend of Seven's in "Unimatrix Zero") who claimed they were assimilated at Wolf359.

I always reckoned the Borg might've dispatched a lifeboat that ferried those drones back to the Delta Quadrant before the E-D's final showdown with the cube.

Why the Borg would do that is beyond me too, though. They'd already assimilated humans a decade or so prior! What'd be so special about those specimens?

[Flagg]

Yeah, having Wolf359 survivors makes no sense, but it can be explained without time travel. They just assimilated a few ships and sent them back to the Delta Quadrant before heading on to Earth or something.

[Eframepilot]

Yeah, having Wolf359 survivors makes no sense, but it can be explained without time travel. They just assimilated a few ships and sent them back to the Delta Quadrant before heading on to Earth or something.

How? Did they upgrade the assimilated vessels with transwarp? Make a conduit for them? (If so, why not use it in the First Contact invasion instead of fighting all the way from the Typhon Sector?)

The Borg make no sense at all.

[Alien-Carrot]

Making a stretch here, just a possible theory. The cube had a sphere in it, ala first contact. Between Wolf 359 and 001, assimilated feddies were loaded into sphere, and sent throgh the transwarp conduit 1 ly from earth(endgame).
Just a theory.

[Flagg]

Who cares how? It makes more sense than magic aka time travel.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It was mentioned in one of the Shatner novels (The Return IIRC) that several of the ships at Wolf 359 were lost and no debris was ever found. Picard specualtes that they were assimilated wholesale and sent back to the Delta Quadrant sometime between the battle and the E-D arriving.

[Flagg]

You should probably be sterilized for admitting to reading Shatner ST novels.