How would you write Data?

[Edward Yee]

I don't mean whether you'd alter his backstory, but how would you have written him, his personality?

For example, based on the backstory, a lot of the "cheap pop" (pro wrestling term) attempts at humor would be taken out. Allowing the backstory as compiled by Memory Alpha, it for me breaks plausibility to see that he somehow wouldn't have become a lot less "unsociable" -- he's had three years since the crew of the USS Tripoli found him before four years' attendance of Starfleet Academy and then nineteen years in Starfleet by the time of his assignment to the USS Enterprise-D... twenty-six years of interaction with organics. If he STILL hasn't figured out interpersonal relations, I can see why he never got command.

Also, there is the question of WHAT he has learned. In canon he roleplayed (I believe) Henry V as per Picard's "learn what it is to be human" advice, yet he also found that since he had too much information on painters, he was "incapable" of creativity and 'personality' at painting. The questionability of this latter aside, I believe that this allows for him to have a LOT more information in his memory to guide his humanity than just that; if anything, I feel that he could have represented himself AND have won ("Measure of a Man").

To this end of what a revised Data might be like, I'm right now seeing a Data who fulfills the same role both onboard and as the "psuedo-Vulcan" (logical advisor), but instead plays extremely coy, quiet, perhaps not in the background nor the archetypical "puppeteer," but...

What would you see?

[Darth Wong]

I wouldn't have written him at all; every single person I knew in school rolled their eyes at the very concept of Data, and derided him as the Spock replacement. It wasn't so much a technical criticism as a dramatic and creative one; Data was obviously written to fill in the role that Spock played in the original series, and people found that cheap and offensive.

Mind you, people eventually got used to Data, but that's the story of TNG-era Star Trek: they give you something cheap and poorly conceived and then hope that the actor will grow into it, the writers will find ways to use it, and the fans will learn to accept it.

[dworkin]

Data could of been a true homage to the Asimov 'humaniform' robots by being utterly human but odd nevertheless due to an abosolute moral code hard wired in (much like the 3 Laws). They could of portrayed him casually frying aliens and when asked about it saying "But sir, they're not human." for example.

[The Silence and I]

I don't mean whether you'd alter his backstory, but how would you have written him, his personality?

I would have made a few minor adjustments, only to make more obvious a certain theme I think is already there, that most viewers never see (alternatively I might just be crazy and there is no theme ^_^). I'll elaborate on what that theme is as I go.

For example, based on the backstory, a lot of the "cheap pop" (pro wrestling term) attempts at humor would be taken out. Allowing the backstory as compiled by Memory Alpha, it for me breaks plausibility to see that he somehow wouldn't have become a lot less "unsociable" -- he's had three years since the crew of the USS Tripoli found him before four years' attendance of Starfleet Academy and then nineteen years in Starfleet by the time of his assignment to the USS Enterprise-D... twenty-six years of interaction with organics. If he STILL hasn't figured out interpersonal relations, I can see why he never got command.

An extremely valid observation--since he never forgets anything, has done extensive research, has decades of interaction to use, and is capable of learning he has no good excuse for being as socially inept as he is portrayed. He should be able to recognize patterns if nothing else and guess what is and what isn't a joke with competent accuracy if nothing else. You don't need an extensive emotional suite to interact with emotional beings if you have taken the time to learn how they react to certain things and so on.

Also, there is the question of WHAT he has learned. In canon he roleplayed (I believe) Henry V as per Picard's "learn what it is to be human" advice, yet he also found that since he had too much information on painters, he was "incapable" of creativity and 'personality' at painting. The questionability of this latter aside, I believe that this allows for him to have a LOT more information in his memory to guide his humanity than just that; if anything, I feel that he could have represented himself AND have won ("Measure of a Man").

I agree, his memory capabilities should allow him to have compiled an extremely detailed account of human interactions, and he really should have been able to represent himself in court. Although remember, he was able to easily convince Picard in the ready room, and due to legality he might not have been allowed to represent himself.

To this end of what a revised Data might be like, I'm right now seeing a Data who fulfills the same role both onboard and as the "psuedo-Vulcan" (logical advisor), but instead plays extremely coy, quiet, perhaps not in the background nor the archetypical "puppeteer," but...

You might be surprised, look again. On the face of things Data acts like a social idiot, he has no emotions and cannot understand simple things like emotional attachments or humor or just about anything involving humanity. He cannot lie, he cannot use contractions, he pauses in conversation trying to form the right words, he is hesitant and unwilling to act swiftly despite his android reaction times, etc. He is a physical and mental savant, but it is inexplicably balanced by an awkward autistic child like mentality. Or is it?

What would you see?

I see a Data that is totally alien in his mentality, a character that is largely hiding his nature from his shipmates, who has assumed an act to make himself more presentable to his limited human companions. I see episodes like "The Most Toys," where Data lies to Riker's face, and then seems to gloat in front of his former captor. I see an emotionless android convey startling emotional force (thanks to Spiner) in a number of episodes. Watch "Datalore" and see Data rapidly figure out how Lore was thinking (a leap and a bound beyond his usualy social clumsyness), and later act saddened by his brother's actions. I see Data take effective, unquestionable charge of the bridge when given the chance ("The Gambit" and the one where Romulans try to send troops to Vulcan). I see a cocky, "I'm better than you and there's nothing you can do about it" attitude in "Encounter at Farpoint" from an android that supposedly can't have such. I see an android that never forgets anything ask the same sorts of questions every time he is in a similar social situation--if he's experienced this kind of thing before, asked and gotten an answer, why ask again?

Basically I see Data as a character that has pulled the wool over his companions--I don't know for sure why. He has limited emotions, understands social interactions far better than he lets on, and probably has other secrets too. This is what I would emphasize if I were to write him. As part of this I would modify or remove episodes like "Data's Day" which dilute this theme. I might be crazy, but I'm not the only one who has seen something odd about the character.

[Ford Prefect]

Well, if i had to write him, I wouldn't of made him sound completely inept, nor would I have made him sound like a thesaurus. He's a robot - why don't we make him efficent?

[Uraniun235]

What would you see?

I see a Data that is totally alien in his mentality, a character that is largely hiding his nature from his shipmates, who has assumed an act to make himself more presentable to his limited human companions. I see episodes like "The Most Toys," where Data lies to Riker's face, and then seems to gloat in front of his former captor. I see an emotionless android convey startling emotional force (thanks to Spiner) in a number of episodes. Watch "Datalore" and see Data rapidly figure out how Lore was thinking (a leap and a bound beyond his usualy social clumsyness), and later act saddened by his brother's actions. I see Data take effective, unquestionable charge of the bridge when given the chance ("The Gambit" and the one where Romulans try to send troops to Vulcan). I see a cocky, "I'm better than you and there's nothing you can do about it" attitude in "Encounter at Farpoint" from an android that supposedly can't have such. I see an android that never forgets anything ask the same sorts of questions every time he is in a similar social situation--if he's experienced this kind of thing before, asked and gotten an answer, why ask again?

Basically I see Data as a character that has pulled the wool over his companions--I don't know for sure why. He has limited emotions, understands social interactions far better than he lets on, and probably has other secrets too. This is what I would emphasize if I were to write him. As part of this I would modify or remove episodes like "Data's Day" which dilute this theme. I might be crazy, but I'm not the only one who has seen something odd about the character.

You're not crazy. I think there was great potential shown in the early seasons for a Data that wasn't emotionless per se (and let's not forget Spock wasn't emotionless either), but rather for a Data who was just different.

[Dennis Toy]

Whats wrong with the present Data? I like the "emotionless-android-finding humanity-story", Data was an interesting character from the start, because he has the child-like curiousity and the intellect of a scientist. I actually like the emotionless data because he could mediate a conflict without emotion. For example, watch "Sarek" when Riker and Picard are about to get into a fight. He actually stops it without becoming mad. Watch "The Most Toys" when he is kidnapped. He shows no fear and no emotion, instead, he doesnt give in and it irritates the guy who kidnapped him.

[The Silence and I]

My rewrite would keep these parts of him, I would only play up a bit how he is more than meets the eye.

I love the character Data as he is, I doubt anyone other than Spiner could play him, and I am not upset by the result. I just think I have an idea for making him a little better in areas he already has. In any given episode you'd notice about nothing different.

[Edward Yee]

I wouldn't have written him at all; every single person I knew in school rolled their eyes at the very concept of Data, and derided him as the Spock replacement. It wasn't so much a technical criticism as a dramatic and creative one; Data was obviously written to fill in the role that Spock played in the original series, and people found that cheap and offensive.

Little quibble -- imagine if he was officially first officer. Memory Alpha (I consider it a valid source) actually gives him time-in-service seniority over Riker, who has seven years to Data's twenty-six.

Mind you, people eventually got used to Data, but that's the story of TNG-era Star Trek: they give you something cheap and poorly conceived and then hope that the actor will grow into it, the writers will find ways to use it, and the fans will learn to accept it.

I was not repulsed by the concept, but now I see an apparent cliche. Ironically, since I've been watching episodes out of order I actually didn't find a problem (and can usually watch one without) until I finally watched "Encounter at Farpoint" -- despite his self-proclaimed superiority factors, "I would give it all up to be human" (I'm not directly quoting). THAT line there was what ended up leading me to realize that there were problems, that the intended point of Data specifically was summed up right in that line in a rather obvious way.

Thank you for your elaboration, The Silence and I, it is strongly appreciated. It would make a lot of sense if the character had the sort of "full-spectrum knowledge" that was attempted with Picard; with emotions, it would make even more sense considering that Data's supposed to have majored in xenobiology.

"The Big Goodbye" (1x13) I actually consider to be a canon example of his potential for roleplaying but correspondingly also for interaction as a person. We see him research Dixon Hill quickly, actually ordering the computer to speed up ("faster") and BOOM! When Dr. Crusher walks into the holographic police station, Data's in a zoot suit, starts rattling off lingo such as "he's being grilled" and what I would consider to be simulating emotion. He may not FEEL suave, but I get the impression that in that scene, he knew how to perform (speech, motions, body language) in a way that would be interpreted by his subject (Dr. Crusher) as suave.

And your response... intriguing. I don't see Data as putting up an act, but if he were to consider it... sometimes a convenient truth is best.

Ford Prefect, you've hit on what I was trying at.

dworkin, you spawned in my mind the following mental image: Data as chief security officer/tactical officer.

Edit: Dennis Toy, the premise in itself is not unheard of but the application seems contradictory. As I said in the first post and in this one, by the time of "Encounter at Farpoint" (1x01) he's had 26 years to figure people out. That he was this lacking in social graces in his early years is understandable, but why later? I don't believe that the examples listed in this thread at all contradict or prevent the examples of incidents you've given.

[Dennis Toy]

Edit: Dennis Toy, the premise in itself is not unheard of but the application seems contradictory. As I said in the first post and in this one, by the time of "Encounter at Farpoint" (1x01) he's had 26 years to figure people out. That he was this lacking in social graces in his early years is understandable, but why later? I don't believe that the examples listed in this thread at all contradict or prevent the examples of incidents you've given.

it was stated in "Brothers" the colonists wanted a less-perfect andrioid and Soong created Data. As i said, i have no problem with Data as is. In fact, i love Data.

[Edward Yee]

it was stated in "Brothers" the colonists wanted a less-perfect andrioid and Soong created Data.

The thing is, I don't think that that contradicts the ideas brought up in this thread either.

[Metrion Cascade]

I see Data as precisely the opposite of Spock. Spock is a natural hothead who's devoted his life to purging emotion. Data supposedly has no emotions, and wants to learn about it.

I say 'supposedly' because Data's devotion to the human condition was hardly rational. It seems to me that through experience, he actually developed some subtle emotions but didn't recognize them as such.

I would have made his emotional development (sans bullshit emotion 'chip') more apparent, and would have made him a lot better at objectively explaining human behavior even if he didn't personally understand it. I think Data's value as a character lay mostly in how he was (and could have been) used to explore human nature in terms most people don't think to use in figuring themselves out. Even his mistakes (such as trying to write a romance program) said a lot.

[drachefly]

I would have had him put in the emotion chip, and discover that he had already more or less emulated it in software.
;)

[Crazedwraith]

I see Data as precisely the opposite of Spock. Spock is a natural hothead who's devoted his life to purging emotion. Data supposedly has no emotions, and wants to learn about it.

Indeed, this was stated bluntly in' Unification. PtII.'

[Metrion Cascade]

I would have had him put in the emotion chip, and discover that he had already more or less emulated it in software.

"But you see, Data, you already are a real boy..."

[Edward Yee]

I would have had him put in the emotion chip, and discover that he had already more or less emulated it in software.

Something that I think "The Big Goodbye" at least implied...?

[Darth Wong]

I see Data as precisely the opposite of Spock. Spock is a natural hothead who's devoted his life to purging emotion. Data supposedly has no emotions, and wants to learn about it.

The problem is that wanting something which is not strictly necessary is, in itself, already an emotional condition.

[Metrion Cascade]

I see Data as precisely the opposite of Spock. Spock is a natural hothead who's devoted his life to purging emotion. Data supposedly has no emotions, and wants to learn about it.

The problem is that wanting something which is not strictly necessary is, in itself, already an emotional condition.

Exactly. I'm supposed to believe that with his interest in the human condition and devotion to Starfleet, he doesn't already have emotions? I think he has them, but I also think the writers consistently avoided the obvious.

I would have had other characters point out what you've pointed out above. Especially (duh) Troi. Of course I'd have written Troi as an actual psychologist too, rather than just a pretty set of tits to cry on.

[Edward Yee]

Are "wants" a sort of emotion? If that is so, then the question is indisputable that Data did indeed have emotions of sorts (such as wants), whether or not HE realized it or deemed it as such.

[Edward Yee]

Exactly. I'm supposed to believe that with his interest in the human condition and devotion to Starfleet, he doesn't already have emotions? I think he has them, but I also think the writers consistently avoided the obvious.

Do you think that the writers avoided it to leave room for more 'exploring humanity' stories, or because they would have written themselves into a corner and had nothing more to say? (I distinctly remember a "tech manual" noting that Voyager was dragged out because they figured that getting home would = show over, just like that.)

What we know is that Vulcans are conditioned to suppress their emotions, but underneath the surface have them, and I know of no evidence to suggest that they experience emotions differently from humans, whereas Data possibly could (being non-organic and with so dang much in his memory)... and with that different take on humanity.

I would have had other characters point out what you've pointed out above. Especially (duh) Troi. Of course I'd have written Troi as an actual psychologist too, rather than just a pretty set of tits to cry on.

Wonder how this Troi would have come about...

[Patrick Degan]

How would I have written Data? Quite a bit more like Bishop from Aliens.

[Edward Yee]

Patrick Degan, I dunno who/how you mean.

[Metrion Cascade]

Do you think that the writers avoided it to leave room for more 'exploring humanity' stories, or because they would have written themselves into a corner and had nothing more to say? (I distinctly remember a "tech manual" noting that Voyager was dragged out because they figured that getting home would = show over, just like that.)

They were just shitty writers who didn't realize they were contradicting themselves. They presented a character that clearly had some emotions, and simply repeated over and over again that he didn't. They failed to see that they didn't have to pretend he was devoid of any emotion in order to use him to explore humanity.

[Utsanomiko]

I wouldn't change how Data was written at all, except give him more lines in The Goonies.

Seriously, that kid was almost as funny as Chunk.

[Anguirus]

I see Data as precisely the opposite of Spock. Spock is a natural hothead who's devoted his life to purging emotion. Data supposedly has no emotions, and wants to learn about it.

This is exactly how the character of "Xon" was written for the unfilmed sequel series Star Trek Phase II. He was a replacement for Spock, and a full Vulcan who had largely rid himself of emotion (at least the Star Trek definition of emotion). But, he comes to believe that Spock was only so effective in Starfleet because he was somewhat in touch with his emotions and his human side, and so he embarks on a study of humanity and trying to get back in touch with his emotions.

The character Data owes a LOT to Xon.