Stargate Command Croydon

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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2015-11-10 12:51am

Me2005 wrote:Couldn't you put the toilet under the stair? Maybe you don't want to run plumbing all over, but that's close to the other room and it'd separate them.


The Relaxation Vault needs to be a fully equipped albeit compact chamber for the maintenance of organic specimens.

Also that stairwell space will be packed with electrical support equipment (e.g. isolation transformers, chargers, batteries, switchgear) so I'd rather not introduce additional plumbing.

Me2005 wrote:Make sure to slope everything towards drainage (garage floor slopes to garage door, lower level slopes toward sump, roof slopes toward door unless you build a French drain somewhere else).


For the lower level, the perimeter drainage channel will have slope, possibly there should be drains with direct pipes to the sump embedded in the 100 mm floor screed as well. For the upper level simple direct slope is ok as you say.

Any thought to drainage around your building yet? Soil is great at holding water and causing leaks.


The contractor has suggested coarse gravel around the footings with filter fabric over, perforated drain pipes around the perimeter with transfer pipes cast into the footings to under the slab, leading to two 1.2 m diam x 1m depth perforated concrete soakaways at the shallow end (will also connect to rainwater downpipes). Sump pump outlet pipe will direct to a third soakaway situated on the other side of the lawn.

The marble floor & walls were suggested by the contractor also;

Lair Concepts brochure wrote:Here at Lair Concepts, we know that visionaries require accomodation befitting their stature. Blofeld, Scaramanga, Pryce; visionary thought leaders come to us because we understand that a lab space needs to be equipped for biogenic weapon development while still providing fine dining for entertaining captured spies. We can bring a touch of class and a timeless modernist design aesthetic to even the smallest of facilities, while our seamless integration of death traps will ensure that those visiting IRS agents remain oblivious to their fate until the last moment. When Hugo Drax requested a wet bar right next to a rocket exhaust tunnel, it was Lair Concepts that invented insulation based on reprocessing damaged orbiter tiles, keeping the vodka-martinis chilled even while the space shuttles were launching. When Karl Stromberg's operation suffered from unacceptably high henchperson death rates due to water infilitration into the electrical substations, we pioneered a new quadruple layer basement waterproofing system rated to 500m under the Atlantic ocean. Contact us today to see how we can enhance your vision for a new world order. Lair Concepts is part of the OCP Family.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2015-11-10 02:10am

Exterior side elevation:

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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Me2005 » 2015-11-10 10:09am

Starglider wrote:The contractor has suggested coarse gravel around the footings with filter fabric over, perforated drain pipes around the perimeter with transfer pipes cast into the footings to under the slab, leading to two 1.2 m diam x 1m depth perforated concrete soakaways at the shallow end (will also connect to rainwater downpipes). Sump pump outlet pipe will direct to a third soakaway situated on the other side of the lawn.


So everything drains to underneath the building? Seems odd, but also don't build multistory basements on what I assume are tight lots. I'd do gravel all the way from the footing to the surface though.

Starglider wrote:The marble floor & walls were suggested by the contractor also;

Lair Concepts brochure wrote:Here at Lair Concepts, we know that visionaries require accomodation befitting their stature. Blofeld, Scaramanga, Pryce; visionary thought leaders come to us because we understand that a lab space needs to be equipped for biogenic weapon development while still providing fine dining for entertaining captured spies. We can bring a touch of class and a timeless modernist design aesthetic to even the smallest of facilities, while our seamless integration of death traps will ensure that those visiting IRS agents remain oblivious to their fate until the last moment. When Hugo Drax requested a wet bar right next to a rocket exhaust tunnel, it was Lair Concepts that invented insulation based on reprocessing damaged orbiter tiles, keeping the vodka-martinis chilled even while the space shuttles were launching. When Karl Stromberg's operation suffered from unacceptably high henchperson death rates due to water infilitration into the electrical substations, we pioneered a new quadruple layer basement waterproofing system rated to 500m under the Atlantic ocean. Contact us today to see how we can enhance your vision for a new world order. Lair Concepts is part of the OCP Family.


Now, it sounded like budged was something of a concern, using clay tile instead of marble (!!) should be a significant savings. At least it would be here in the states.

Also on that side elevation; add a horizontal band like this:
Image

A soldier course or belly band or concrete overhang or something. It'll look better, provide a break in the brickwork to prevent cracks forming because of the gaps up top, and should protect the brickwork below from runoff etc. better. Shoot, casting the top slab a few inches over on all sides would cost basically nothing more and add so much protection to the lower parts; you'd just need to be ok with the look.

Are you doing these plans or your contractor? What are they in?

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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2015-11-10 02:23pm

Me2005 wrote:So everything drains to underneath the building?


I think the pipes through the footings are to drain any upwelling water back out to the soakaways.

Me2005 wrote:
Starglider wrote:The marble floor & walls were suggested by the contractor also

Now, it sounded like budged was something of a concern, using clay tile instead of marble (!!) should be a significant savings. At least it would be here in the states.


In this area, the labour cost overwhelms everything else. The cost difference between clay and marble tiles is almost inconsequential. This effect is even more extreme in central London; you tend to see lavish fittings because it impresses purchasers/vistors/tenants and makes a relatively minor difference to the total cost.

Also on that side elevation; add a horizontal band like this


That is a good idea, thanks.

Are you doing these plans or your contractor? What are they in?


I am doing them using Paint Shop Pro 5. The contractor has sent an assortment of scanned sketches.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Zaune » 2015-11-10 02:48pm

You know, if you just want somewhere to put a server farm you could probably buy a decent-sized building up here in the Midlands for less than what this secret underground bunker is going to cost. Wouldn't be anywhere near as cool, of course.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2015-11-10 06:28pm

Zaune wrote:You know, if you just want somewhere to put a server farm you could probably buy a decent-sized building up here in the Midlands for less than what this secret underground bunker is going to cost. Wouldn't be anywhere near as cool, of course.


But what would happen when Corybn takes power and implements a strict one family, one property (Labour party members excepted) rule?

(in the social circles of suburban outer London, it is an article of faith that he would attempt this and many other indiginities)
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Zaune » 2015-11-10 06:43pm

Yes, but you're not that daft, are you? Besides, I could sort of see it for residential property -at the very least they'll probably make second home owners pay full whack for council tax- but it's hardly likely to apply to commercial buildings.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2015-11-11 10:27am

Hit a slight snag; went to see the local planning authority today, and they said that while broadly acceptable, a professional tree survey is mandatory before consent can be granted. They also said that the earth-sheltered construction was 'unusual' and the basement was 'highly unusual'. Damnable elf-bloods and ent-sympathisers the lot of them, don't seem to appreciate the most basic dwarven values.

Good news though, domestic three-phase power is still available in the area. Still trying to get a quote for installation. That would increase the power budget to 72 KW, or 60 KW if I remove the existing house supply.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Zaune » 2015-11-11 11:36am

Starglider wrote:Hit a slight snag; went to see the local planning authority today, and they said that while broadly acceptable, a professional tree survey is mandatory before consent can be granted. They also said that the earth-sheltered construction was 'unusual' and the basement was 'highly unusual'. Damnable elf-bloods and ent-sympathisers the lot of them, don't seem to appreciate the most basic dwarven values.

Oh, Lord... Much as we barbarians from the howling wastes beyond the M25 may grumble about Londoners, I think I speak for a sizeable majority of us when I say I would really appreciate it if you didn't set the Hidden Fun Stuff loose in Croydon.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby His Divine Shadow » 2015-11-12 04:05am

Since I started working with machines and stuff I've come to feel really spoiled to live in Finland where 3-phase hookup is standard for every single home. It's so useful and nice to have.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2016-01-03 06:02pm

Still in the planning phase. As you would expect, local government institutions are essentially comatose through december/early january. I revised the side elevation to this;

Image

Image

I am still considering options for the server racking. The craziest is to obtain four x 2.5 diam x 3m tall stainless steel storage tanks (second hand ex food industry) and bury them under the floor (with welded steel trapdoor access & linking pipes). I can then pump serious airflow through them with minimal noise levels in the room above and excellent EM screening. Alternatively I could use bulk water cooling with radiators under / integrated into the balcony railings on the roof. That has to be good for +13 evil genius lair points.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2016-01-03 07:44pm

Placing all your computer equipment at the lowest point of drainage underground sounds not at all brilliant when the toilet overflows, but pretty compliant with typical evil overlord construction concepts.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2016-01-03 08:03pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Placing all your computer equipment at the lowest point of drainage underground sounds not at all brilliant when the toilet overflows, but pretty compliant with typical evil overlord construction concepts.


Ah but the beauty of using all-welded stainless steel tanks is that they're completely watertight even if the basement floods. Of course that won't help if I used water cooling and it sprung a leak. I'd still need a sump pump draining each silo for that eventuality.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2016-01-03 08:05pm

Watertightness on used equipment isn't something I'd want to argue to the insurance agent myself. It seems like a real pain in the ass for access in any event.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2016-05-14 07:44am

Permission has finally been granted by the local authority for construction of this structure. They were, to be brief, absolutely feckless and missed two of their own statuatory deadlines for no reason other than the one beurecrat assigned to this constantly taking holidays (apparently there is no possibility of one of the others looking at it). The local residents association had a slew of NIMBY objections, of course, but that's fine, a burning emnity between mad science and the local civillian population is thoroughly traditional. I merely pointed out that none of their objections were actually substantial under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

So, cry havok and let slip the excavators. The one significant change since the last plans is that I decided air cooling 64kw of servers via four 45cm air shafts was over-optimistic, in the sense of either the fan noise or the interior air temperature, or likely both, would get excessive. So I have respecified the balcony railings to aprox 1km of stainless steel pipe (threaded through perforated engineering bricks for the support pillars). These can then be attached to a few circulator pumps to provide inconspicuous water cooling for the servers. My first pass was conventional stainless steel radiators but the wife was not keen on the aesthetic, and I have to admitt, this is a little more raygun gothic.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Purple » 2016-05-15 12:05pm

Out of curiosity just what is the purpose of this structure?
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-05-15 02:40pm

Purple wrote:Out of curiosity just what is the purpose of this structure?


The joke is he's scheming to become a supervillain. The reality is he wanted below-ground parking (IIRC?) and a server farm (also IIRC), and he's in the UK, so urban space is a serious issue, and it was presumably easier to expand vertically downward than trying to purchase adjoining lots.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2016-05-15 03:53pm

Our house has three bedrooms, one of which is completely full of computer equipment and another of which is half-full of cosplay/convention stuff. With the recent arrival of a child, and consequent visits from relatives, I need to clear both bedrooms. Furthermore, the house needs a new roof at some point and I am planning to do a loft conversion, so I need to remove all the stuff stored in the loft. Finally, we are planning to get a dog, but a dog walker may be necessary some weekdays and my wife won't allow one access to the house. The wife also doesn't like the fact that our existing patio is in poor repair and not very well shaped for child activities, or that there is still a little visibility of the house from the road.

Also I require a 10m x 7m secure lab space with 64KW electric power, cooling to handle said power, comprehensive EM screening, classy marble floor, strangely sourceless lighting, a PA system and a wet bar for an upcoming experiment series.

OBVIOUSLY the solution is to convert the existing single detached garage into a home office and kennel (via interior partition wall, glass wall in the place of the main door, underfloor heating, security door, roof skylights), then to construct a 7m x 11m x 6m two-story mostly underground reinforced concrete box with space for DeLorean + VehiCROSS + wife's hatchback + workshop (must have 3phase bandsaw) + lots of stuff from house above, the lab/relaxation vault space below, and the patio + screening planter/wall above. THIS IS ENTIRELY LOGICAL AND SENSIBLE*.

* Because even on the outskirts of London, house and land prices are pretty silly.
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-05-15 04:06pm

Well, I got the parking and the English urban space issues right... I'll go with that :P

Bandsaw? Metal or woodworking?
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2016-05-15 06:37pm

Foundations design : I decided to go with a 1m x 1m x 7m (effective) single open-chamber soakaway. This is immediately below the floor slab; top of the footings is at 3.2m depth at the shallow end. Does anyone know about standard vs epoxied vs galvanised vs stainless rebar and what is worth the cost?

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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby SpottedKitty » 2016-05-15 08:09pm

Elheru Aran wrote:The joke is he's scheming to become a supervillain.

Obviously this means the planned "dog" is actually a cunningly disguised fluffy white cat. :wink:
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby U.P. Cinnabar » 2016-05-16 02:55am

SpottedKitty wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:The joke is he's scheming to become a supervillain.

Obviously this means the planned "dog" is actually a cunningly disguised fluffy white cat. :wink:


If that was the case, he'd either have an inactive volcano, an abandoned ski resort, or a giant sub that eats other subs for his evil lair. :)

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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2016-05-16 07:25pm

I am not an architect but I play one on the Internet (lair design has been a mandatory course on Mad Science degrees since 1958).

Image

I had to switch the 450mm precast ventilation to 500mm rigid PVC (ribbed twinwall) because it was just looking impractical to install those 200kg sections. Probably easier to seal the plastic pipe to the wall membrane than waterproof the whole length of the concrete pipes anyway.

Image
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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Me2005 » 2016-05-17 03:17pm

Starglider wrote:Foundations design : I decided to go with a 1m x 1m x 7m (effective) single open-chamber soakaway. This is immediately below the floor slab; top of the footings is at 3.2m depth at the shallow end. Does anyone know about standard vs epoxied vs galvanised vs stainless rebar and what is worth the cost?


Yes, yes I do. Well, at least standard vs. epoxied; I hadn't heard of the others and am not aware of anyone using them around here. I can't imagine stainless ever being cost effective, regular rebar seems to hold up pretty well in the giant concrete buildings, freeways, and everything else it's used in here in the PNW.

Anyway, standard is probably better than epoxied. The epoxy inevitably cracks and allows *some* water into the metal, but since the epoxy is waterproof, the metal rusts through faster than if the rebar was just exposed to the concrete. This is because the concrete allows water to permeate away from the bare metal.

Oh, hey, and sand: Depending on your code, it may be required ( California... :evil: ), but it's also a guaranteed way to get water intrusion and cause all your slab-surface finishes to fail if you don't have a vapor barrier between it and the slab (which you may have?). Here's a link. I believe the correct order of operations is concrete over vapor barrier over 4"+ of crushed rock over native compacted soils. If you must have it, the sand goes under geo barrier under the rock and over the compacted earth. but again, you're doing something weird I have no experience with so my advice may only apply to regular residential/commercial construction and not lair-construction.

Other than that, seems ok. I'm completely unable to wrap my mind around mm-> inch conversions without a calculator, so I'll just assume you're correctly sizing things.

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Re: Stargate Command Croydon

Postby Starglider » 2016-05-17 05:38pm

Stainless rebar is I think favoured for marine applications (piers, boathouses) and industrial plant where corrosion resistance is critical. Galvanised seems to be heavily promoted for civil engineering applications now due to increased lifespan. In fact I vaugely recall hearing your criticism of epoxied before; unlike galvanised there is no sacrificial protection. I have asked for some quotes on galvanised vs standard.

As I understand it the sand blind under a standard floor slab is there to even out the local loading (by smoothing the surface of the hardcore) and hence prevent puncturing of the membrane, although it does reduce cracking risk as well. I will of course be using a heavy duty waterproofing membrane, not just a standard vapor barrier, as the water pressure at 6m below ground can be significant.

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