SDN Photography Talk Thread

AMP: sci-fi art, regular art, pictures, photos, comics, music, etc.

Moderator: Beowulf

Post Reply
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10314
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

I had a dream! A dream of walking around in the streets, taking photos with a sleek Canonette, the film showing the radiant colours and tones.
Then someone asked me in the dream if they could see the photos "Of course not" I said "It's a film camera".
Then I looked down and there was a lcd for seeing the photos.
Oddly enough, I didn't realize it was a dream even at that point. I also blame this thread for making me aware of the Canonette (and it looked like a Leica only with with a pentaprism viewfinder in my dream, sleek silver metal).

As a side note to my insane dreaming, Bounty:
If you like your photos, print them, as large as the multiplication of ("How much you like it")*(cost)/(Maximum printing size)^2.
I have 3 walls stuffed with printed A5-A3 sized prints, some on paper, some on a fabric backcoard and some with a plaque.
I can't believe you're broaching this as a new idea :D.
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

The Canonet is a lovely camera.
User avatar
Simplicius
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: 2006-01-27 06:07pm

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by Simplicius »

The Grim Squeaker wrote:If you like your photos, print them, as large as the multiplication of ("How much you like it")*(cost)/(Maximum printing size)^2.
Print size dictates how people look at the print, believe it or not, so sizes should be chosen for effect. People view images from a distance about equal to the diagonal, so larger prints cause people to view from further away, and smaller prints create a much more intimate relationship between print and viewer. Scenes are more appropriate for one or the other, and should be printed accordingly.
phongn wrote:The Canonet is a lovely camera.
I saw a Model 1961 Canonet at Goodwill just the other day and it was damn stylish. Definitely the best-looking of the family.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

Simplicius wrote:
phongn wrote:The Canonet is a lovely camera.
I saw a Model 1961 Canonet at Goodwill just the other day and it was damn stylish. Definitely the best-looking of the family.
When my G-III QL17 in my hand - it looks right and it feels right. It's quiet, its interface is dead-simple to use (though I prefer aperture priority over shutter priority) and while it's not exactly a small camera (especially compared to today's point-and-shoot digital cameras) it seems to blend in very well. Nobody pays it any heed while SLRs seem to grab attention - even if everyone and their grandma has an SLR now.

Other notes: slides on a light table look amazingly good.
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10314
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Simplicius wrote:
The Grim Squeaker wrote:If you like your photos, print them, as large as the multiplication of ("How much you like it")*(cost)/(Maximum printing size)^2.
Print size dictates how people look at the print, believe it or not, so sizes should be chosen for effect. People view images from a distance about equal to the diagonal, so larger prints cause people to view from further away, and smaller prints create a much more intimate relationship between print and viewer. Scenes are more appropriate for one or the other, and should be printed accordingly.
1. The background of the print affects it almost as strongly (canvas, wood frame, etc').
2. Most of my prints are nature, landscapes, a few of animals and I have only 2 with people in them (Kids jumping in midair off a cliff).
I have quite a lot (dozens) of prints, the main problem is hanging them up on the wall in an aesthetic manner, and finding what to hang them on/with :).

If you want to show your pictures, there's nothing like a print, even a decent 3+ year old compact digital camera at 4 MP can manage an A3 print of something clean and naturey :D. (You've seen my favourite shot, the one with the cloud-bird, right?).

Intimacy - i'll save that for the scenario of my becoming a famous artist/photographer with a private gallery to show to young, nubile and admiring female fans :D.
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
Simplicius
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: 2006-01-27 06:07pm

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by Simplicius »

Anyone been a member of a photo club outside of university? I'm considering joining a regional, though it's about an hour away, and I'd be interested to hear about anyone else's experiences with their own clubs.
The Grim Squeaker wrote:1. The background of the print affects it almost as strongly (canvas, wood frame, etc').
If so, I'd be interested to see articles.
Intimacy - i'll save that for the scenario of my becoming a famous artist/photographer with a private gallery to show to young, nubile and admiring female fans :D.
Could you perchance spare us the cafeteria innuendo and similar bad jokes? I don't know why it gets on my nerves beyond the fact that it's lame, but it does.
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10314
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Simplicius wrote:
The Grim Squeaker wrote:1. The background of the print affects it almost as strongly (canvas, wood frame, etc').
If so, I'd be interested to see articles.
This is based on personal experience and observation, not articles.
Seriously, look at a small print on a large white background, as opposed to the same print in twice the size with a small border with a wood panel frame and a glass cover.
The difference is quite noticeable. (Though I lack the ability to explain what's best for what).
Intimacy - i'll save that for the scenario of my becoming a famous artist/photographer with a private gallery to show to young, nubile and admiring female fans :D.
Could you perchance spare us the cafeteria innuendo and similar bad jokes? I don't know why it gets on my nerves beyond the fact that it's lame, but it does.
Hmmm, no. I will if a simultaneous ban is made on ICBMs/Rockets being extensions of the geneatalia of various warmongering sdn members or countries :P.
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

The Grim Squeaker wrote:
Simplicius wrote:
The Grim Squeaker wrote:Intimacy - i'll save that for the scenario of my becoming a famous artist/photographer with a private gallery to show to young, nubile and admiring female fans :D.
Could you perchance spare us the cafeteria innuendo and similar bad jokes? I don't know why it gets on my nerves beyond the fact that it's lame, but it does.
Hmmm, no. I will if a simultaneous ban is made on ICBMs/Rockets being extensions of the geneatalia of various warmongering sdn members or countries :P.
Seriously, comments like the one you made are kinda disturbing and creepy.
User avatar
Simplicius
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: 2006-01-27 06:07pm

Re: SDN Photo Talk Thread

Post by Simplicius »

I've sent Death a PM on the matter, so this thread can go back on-topic.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

Mea culpa.

As for technology - I have this urge to keep making larger and larger negatives. I'm considering getting a 6x9 rangefinder at some point or even a 4x5 camera. Suggestions? My 645N seems to have been a gateway drug :)
User avatar
Simplicius
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: 2006-01-27 06:07pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by Simplicius »

phongn wrote:Mea culpa.
No worries. I hadn't sent the PM until well after you'd posted; my announcement was general.
As for technology - I have this urge to keep making larger and larger negatives. I'm considering getting a 6x9 rangefinder at some point or even a 4x5 camera. Suggestions? My 645N seems to have been a gateway drug :)
Large negs are definitely awesome, except when trying to keep dust off them during scanning.

My own experience is pretty limited (to the Konica, which I've posted about before, and to the Speed Graphic, which I've only dry-shot). They both predate auto features, which you said you like to have around. I don't know anything about Mamiya's non-press rangefinders (like the 7), but that might be one avenue. Another might be Pentax's 6x7 SLRs (the 6x7, 67, and 67ii), especially if you can use the glass from the 645.

As for 4x5, if you want to stick with handheld then you're basically limited to press cameras if your budget is limited. (There are Crown Graphics up on Ebay for $150 and less at this moment). If you are okay with blowing a bit of cash, the "Razzle" Polaroid conversion and the Fotoman serve to intrigue.

I'd be happy to tell you about the Konica or Graflex, both of which have cost advantages without being crappy cameras, but the internet at large will probably be more helpful about everything else.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

Simplicius wrote:Large negs are definitely awesome, except when trying to keep dust off them during scanning.
There is dust UNDER the glass of my scanner :(
My own experience is pretty limited (to the Konica, which I've posted about before, and to the Speed Graphic, which I've only dry-shot). They both predate auto features, which you said you like to have around. I don't know anything about Mamiya's non-press rangefinders (like the 7), but that might be one avenue. Another might be Pentax's 6x7 SLRs (the 6x7, 67, and 67ii), especially if you can use the glass from the 645.
You can use 6x7 glass (some of it) on a 645 with an adapter but not the other way around. It's also so damn huge. I had the opportunity to handle one at a local camera store - it just seems a bit much. The Mamiya 7, unfortunately, costs a small fortune (same with the 6). There's also the Fuji rangefinders but they're not exactly cheap used, either. I was pondering a GW690 or (better) a GSW690 but so do a lot of other people, it seem (driving prices a bit up)
As for 4x5, if you want to stick with handheld then you're basically limited to press cameras if your budget is limited. (There are Crown Graphics up on Ebay for $150 and less at this moment). If you are okay with blowing a bit of cash, the "Razzle" Polaroid conversion and the Fotoman serve to intrigue.
I've seen those things! (edit: the Polaroid conversions) I was certainly intrigued by them but they looked rather expensive.
I'd be happy to tell you about the Konica or Graflex, both of which have cost advantages without being crappy cameras, but the internet at large will probably be more helpful about everything else.
If you have any information it'd be great.
User avatar
Simplicius
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: 2006-01-27 06:07pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by Simplicius »

phongn wrote:If you have any information it'd be great.
The Konica is a press rangefinder in 6x7 format. Weight is probably about 4 pounds, which is okay for handholding but demands a neck strap for carry-around; fortunately there are places to attach one. There are five lenses, all with leaf shutters: 58/5.6 and a 60/5.6, 90/3.5, 135/3.5, and 180/4.5. The limited lens option probably have something to do with it being a press camera, but they are good lenses. The Konicas were beloved by wedding photographers up until the advent of digital, partly for this.

If you go after a Koni it is worthwhile to get a pro version like the Rapid M or Omega 200, because the film backs for those accept magazines. Changing a roll on the standard back takes a little while and seems like it would be awkward in the field. If you don't think you'll take more than one roll (10 shots) on an outing, or don't mind a slow roll change, the Rapid and Omega 100 are basically identical otherwise.

Cost varies, but there is a Rapid M with the 90mm and one magazine at $200 on Ebay. You could also look into the Konica Omegaflex-M, which is a 6x7 TLR.

There are about a zillion old 4x5 press cameras out there, which keeps the cost down. A lot of them are Graflexes, of which there are plenty of different models. Mine is a Speed Graphic, so named because in addition to lens shutters it has a huge focal plane shutter which can go up to 1/1000 sec. The Crown Graphic lacks the focal plane shutter and is lighter, and some who use Speeds have removed that shutter as well. Keeping the shutter lets you use barrel lenses though, or old lenses on slow shutters.

The press cameras aren't excellent as poor man's view cameras, because movements are limited and most don't have rotating backs. The Busch Pressman does, and the Super Graphic does, but I think few others do. They were meant to be handheld cameras, after all.

The Speed has a wire, optical, and rangefinding (synchronized) viewfinder, besides the ground glass and scale focusing. It can change out lenses, and if you can find the cams for it (not too difficult, I hear), you can re-synch the rangefinder to most lenses. There are also little infinity stops for the bed rails; you can place a couple of sets for your most commonly-used lenses and fold the ones you don't need out of the way without having to remove them. The bed drops for wide-angle lenses as well.

The twin shutters are controlled by a selector switch on the body and one trigger can release both of them, in most cases. My grandfather updated his Graphic with a Schneider-Kreuznach 150/5.6 in a Copal No. 0 shutter, and the Graphic's lens shutter arm is about 1 mm too short to reach the Copal's release.

There is a 6-sheet magazine for the Graflok back, the Grafmatic I believe it's called, which is much better and faster for handheld then using individual two-sheet holders. For tripod work, the holders are fast enough. Since the Graflok back is something of a standard, there are rollfilm and Polaroid options for it as well.

The camera is not the most comfortable in the world to hold as-is (there are a variety of techniques), but with the wrist strap lugs (and screws) on the left and the flash handle mount on the right, there is ample provision for mounting grips.

The Graphics are easy to screw up with until you get used to them, because there are plenty of things to forget to do, starting with leaving in the dark slide. But they are fine cameras nevertheless, and have aged gracefully.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

I was at my usual camera shop dropping off/picking up some film when I saw a lovely Crown Graphic being looked over by someone. It did look very neat.

I also got back my Canonet from repair - its shutter was stuck and I don't have the tools to disassemble the lens and clean the blades. Well, I got it back and it turns out they must've done a CLA on it. New foam and the viewfinder is gorgeous - I had no idea how dirty it was; post-cleaning it's like looking through a whole new camera.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

I hope this is the right place to ask, but how good are the micro 4/3 cameras out there? What are the pros and cons? Thanks.

The Panasonic GF-1 and the Olympus EP-1 look rather tempting.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I hope this is the right place to ask, but how good are the micro 4/3 cameras out there? What are the pros and cons? Thanks.
They're both good. They're smaller and lighter than a conventional DSLR but you don't get a true viewfinder either (the Panasonic GF1 and the upcoming Olympus EP2 have an optional electronic viewfinder). The Olympus has built-in image stabilization.

If you're interested in them, go find a camera store and play with them.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Is there a pro and cons for internal and external image stabilization?

Also, are the lenses comparable to those on the standard DSLRs?
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by phongn »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Is there a pro and cons for internal and external image stabilization?
Lens-based image stabilization works better but you have to pay for it in lenses that have it (and most don't). Body-based is not as good (especially with long lenses) but it works with everything.
Also, are the lenses comparable to those on the standard DSLRs?
Selection is sparser but more than likely to be enough for you. The Panasonic 20/1.7 looks particularly nice for a walk-around lens.

You can also get an adapter to put conventional Four Thirds System lenses on it (autofocus compatibility may vary). There are also adapters for damn near every 35mm SLR and rangefinder mount as well (though you will lose autofocus and this pretty much turns your camera into manual or aperture-priority mode)
User avatar
aerius
Charismatic Cult Leader
Posts: 14792
Joined: 2002-08-18 07:27pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by aerius »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I hope this is the right place to ask, but how good are the micro 4/3 cameras out there? What are the pros and cons? Thanks.
I had an E-P1 earlier this year before I returned it, the lack of an optical viewfinder was too big of an issue. In terms of image quality I can't complain, the pictures were every bit as good as those from my friend's Nikon D300, way better than any compact camera especially in more tricky lighting conditions. If you get them with the low profile prime lenses instead of the zooms, they're small enough that you can stuff them into a pocket and carry them around everywhere, with the zooms you'll need a strap or bag to carry them with. They'll still be smaller & lighter than DSLRs even with the zooms but to me it doesn't make much sense if I can't pocket carry them, your needs may differ.

The E-P1 is a nice camera and the GF1 is said to be even better, unfortunately neither comes with a built-in viewfinder which is a killer for me. Both have an optional clip-on viewfinder but I'm rather absent-minded at times so chances are I'm going to forget the stupid thing at home when I need it the most.
Image
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

aerius wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:I hope this is the right place to ask, but how good are the micro 4/3 cameras out there? What are the pros and cons? Thanks.
I had an E-P1 earlier this year before I returned it, the lack of an optical viewfinder was too big of an issue. In terms of image quality I can't complain, the pictures were every bit as good as those from my friend's Nikon D300, way better than any compact camera especially in more tricky lighting conditions. If you get them with the low profile prime lenses instead of the zooms, they're small enough that you can stuff them into a pocket and carry them around everywhere, with the zooms you'll need a strap or bag to carry them with. They'll still be smaller & lighter than DSLRs even with the zooms but to me it doesn't make much sense if I can't pocket carry them, your needs may differ.

The E-P1 is a nice camera and the GF1 is said to be even better, unfortunately neither comes with a built-in viewfinder which is a killer for me. Both have an optional clip-on viewfinder but I'm rather absent-minded at times so chances are I'm going to forget the stupid thing at home when I need it the most.
I heard the incoming E-P2 has a viewfinder, but I'll wait and see the reviews when it arrives. Though I hope it'd come out by the end of the year so I can decide whether it's worth buying or not.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
aerius
Charismatic Cult Leader
Posts: 14792
Joined: 2002-08-18 07:27pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by aerius »

According to rumours on the 'net, the E-P2 is supposed to have its official release on November 5th. No idea how true this is or when the cameras will actually be available for order.
Image
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10314
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

aerius wrote:According to rumours on the 'net, the E-P2 is supposed to have its official release on November 5th. No idea how true this is or when the cameras will actually be available for order.
What I really, really want, (and that no one has announced yet beyond some Nikon rumours) is a 2/3 (i.e half 4/3 sized sensor) with a fixed (non swappable) lens built in, say a 24-105 or 28-135 equilevent 2.8-4F. (with less than 10 MP).
THAT would be sweet. Awesome lens, small, light, and the fixed lens design means they can make a good lens for much less.
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
Simplicius
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: 2006-01-27 06:07pm

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by Simplicius »

The Grim Squeaker wrote:Shooting with 2,400$ worth of non waterproof gear in the rain without an umbrella and in very heavy rain no less... Well... nah.
Get a UV or clear glass filter and a transparent plastic bag, like a food storage bag or something. Put the bag over the whole camera, make sure it is very flat across the front of the lens, and then screw on the filter. Your camera will have a raincoat even if you don't.
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10314
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Simplicius wrote:
The Grim Squeaker wrote:Shooting with 2,400$ worth of non waterproof gear in the rain without an umbrella and in very heavy rain no less... Well... nah.
Get a UV or clear glass filter and a transparent plastic bag, like a food storage bag or something. Put the bag over the whole camera, make sure it is very flat across the front of the lens, and then screw on the filter. Your camera will have a raincoat even if you don't.
I have a UV filter. The idea of covering the camera with the bag entirely has merit, though I can't see myself keeping pictures with a creased plastic line bulge going through them. Maybe some artsy shots..
I'll give it a try with my compact though, it'll also mean I'll actually have a bag big enough that can hold the dratted thing :0.

Thanks!
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
Bounty
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10767
Joined: 2005-01-20 08:33am
Location: Belgium

Re: SDN Photography Talk Thread

Post by Bounty »

I'll give it a try with my compact though
Thing is, you want to use it on a camera with a screw-on filter, because that's what keeps the plastic over the lens taut. If it's slack, you won't get good results.
Post Reply