Search found 3610 matches

by loomer
2020-06-17 04:24am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

The principal difference is that exile places the fault of the killing on the exiled, and not the society. They were given a chance to leave and, having failed to take advantage of it, face their own fate. What they do outside the confines of the legally-constituted society is largely irrelevant as...
by loomer
2020-06-16 11:30pm
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Solauren wrote:
2020-06-16 10:47pm
Ah Exile. The death sentence for people afraid to order someone's death as they think it will condemn their own soul to hell.
It's not about souls or fear, it's about the conceptual framework of what is and is not permissible in a legal system and the society it creates.
by loomer
2020-06-16 12:13pm
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

In short, it's horrific to have a procedure whereby law enforcement ties a guy down and kills him in a step by step prescribed manner, but declaring that someone isn't welcome in society anymore and that the law isn't going to stop someone who decides to cap the fucker on their own initiative is le...
by loomer
2020-06-16 11:06am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

The suffering is incidental and beyond the scope of the exile, not part of the sentence of exile. I'm generally opposed to it myself - if you asked me if I'd sooner shoot them than send them to die of exposure in the desert I'd say 'yes' - but there remains a distinction between a sentence that is ...
by loomer
2020-06-16 09:34am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

I don't think those epistemic difference are worth anything if that results in the prolonging of suffering for a person. No ideological views are ever worth inflicting additional harm on a person. Hence why I still see it as moral cowardice. The suffering is incidental and beyond the scope of the e...
by loomer
2020-06-16 08:27am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Ralin wrote:
2020-06-16 08:20am
Practically speaking, wouldn't anyone hated and bad enough to warrant outlawing also prompt someone to wait nearby to cap them immediately after being declared an outlaw?
On the level we're discussing, most likely, yes.
by loomer
2020-06-16 08:10am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Why should we be concerned with their odds of starving to death? They so irrevocably broke with the social contract that any obligation from us to them has vanished. The only remaining obligation of humane conduct is owed to the self and the rest of the society, and not to the outlaw. That's litera...
by loomer
2020-06-16 07:09am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Anywhere that'll take them. And if nowhere will, then they're shit out of luck and can face the consequences when they, as an outlaw, show their face in the community. Exile isn't a pretty response, and in all likelihood the combination of modern territorial statehood and in it would come out to a ...
by loomer
2020-06-16 06:09am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

1.) Outlaws often waylaid people on the road and stole their stuff. What's to stop them from doing THAT The part where we no longer live in a world where that's a viable occupation. You know, the same 'the world is bigger now' line you've been trotting out? 2.) Not entirely; I'm pointing out that c...
by loomer
2020-06-16 04:56am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: [SCOTUS] Ruling: Title VII anti-discrimination law protects LGBT employees
Replies: 4
Views: 438

Re: [SCOTUS] Ruling: Title VII anti-discrimination law protects LGBT employees

Gorsuch's decisionmaking career is going to be an interesting read come the end of his time on the bench if he keeps this up.
by loomer
2020-06-16 04:55am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

1.) Outlaws often waylaid people on the road and stole their stuff. What's to stop them from doing THAT The part where we no longer live in a world where that's a viable occupation. You know, the same 'the world is bigger now' line you've been trotting out? 2.) Not entirely; I'm pointing out that c...
by loomer
2020-06-16 04:29am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Basically I think that if someone is dangerous they need to be contained in some form or other. If someone's an outlaw it means anyone can kill or persecute them....which often leads to them committing crimes. I don't see how constant round the clock monitoring is going to help either. As such I do...
by loomer
2020-06-16 03:51am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

1.) Even if it were 95% addressing poverty isn't going to make it go away. Many of histories crimes were committed by the WEALTHY not the poor and even before capitalism existed people wanted what other people had (Crassus of Rome, any european monarch, hell Bernie Madoff). They can be REDUCED and ...
by loomer
2020-06-16 02:10am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Okay I’ll concede the “never said” part. I honestly had forgotten but I won’t argue with the facts. My bad. The impression I got was that abolitionists sincerely think crime won’t be an issue if we address root causes, and that there won’t be an incident when force is necessary. Angela Davis certai...
by loomer
2020-06-16 01:58am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Unfortunately, while Camden's model is an improvement, my understanding is there's still a lot of problems with their police force. We can think of them as kind of a 'best outcome' for reform - it's better, but there's still issues with police brutality, uneven enforcement, and rehiring policies tha...
by loomer
2020-06-16 01:48am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Fun fact; incarceration In it’s modern form was created in part to get around capital punishment; it’s original instruction was to hold people until a punishment (clogging or execution) was carried out. Yes, I'm aware of the roots of the carceral state. My point is that you're again pointing to a r...
by loomer
2020-06-16 01:23am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Fun fact; incarceration In it’s modern form was created in part to get around capital punishment; it’s original instruction was to hold people until a punishment (clogging or execution) was carried out. Yes, I'm aware of the roots of the carceral state. My point is that you're again pointing to a r...
by loomer
2020-06-16 12:37am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

As Wong also said on Facebook not long ago, if you have to constantly explain how no actually abolishing/defunding the police doesn't mean literally getting rid of all law enforcement then maybe that's a sign that your slogan is a bad one and you should come up with something that won't make the av...
by loomer
2020-06-16 12:29am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Rightist militias opened fire on people in Albuquerque. Just a little, so far, but it's still a troubling escalation.
by loomer
2020-06-15 10:17am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

It's actually rather more complex than that. If we look strictly at Europe and Asia, we can get that as an overly broad approximation, but if our lens broadens out into pre-modern Australia, Oceania, Africa, and the Americas we get very different possibilities. Any recommended reading on the subjec...
by loomer
2020-06-15 06:40am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Okay. So why were we able to have law enforcement prior to the advent of police forces? That law-enforcement generally took the form of either soldiers or the local landowner's hired thugs, whose quality of oversight and training were even more of a crapshoot than they are in the contemporary Unite...
by loomer
2020-06-15 06:17am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Because restorative justice works mainly if the perpetrator is remorseful or acted out of desperation. Rape is always about domination and control, and murders that are premeditated are often done with cold intent and sociopathy behind them. In those situations the perp would either be insincere or...
by loomer
2020-06-15 06:04am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

I already agreed that as is the current system of policing needs to go and that if policing is to stay there will need to be an overhaul. HOWEVER 1.) Society is larger than before. Small isolated groups of community watch aren’t going to cut it anymore. Okay. So why does this mean that police force...
by loomer
2020-06-15 05:12am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Those pre modern precursors existed in smaller societies. In essence they were rendered obsolete https://www.thebalancecareers.com/the-history-of-modern-policing-974587 And countries like Germany have police forces that aren’t just violent thugs. The UK cops aren’t allowed to carry guns which cuts ...
by loomer
2020-06-15 03:50am
Forum: News and Politics
Topic: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death
Replies: 601
Views: 27001

Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Police forces always existed (night watchs) even in different forms; it was less centralized but it's always been there. And even those smaller methods could often lack effectiveness, which is why larger ones evolved. As stands the police need to be abolished and they can definitely be scaled back....