Grand Admiral Thrawn...you by any chance happen to visit www.swrebellion.com?

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"Join me and I will complete your training"
"You dont know the power of the Dark Side"

[quote="DarkStar"][/quote]

Said nothing new. The fact is, you ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

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"Brian, if I parked a supertanker in Central Park, painted it neon orange, and set it on fire, it would be less obvious than your stupidity." --RedImperator

Well, I just can't help you. You continue to ignore the canon representation of ships at warp, the canon facts of ships without warp propulsion and the time it takes them to drop to sublight, the time it takes the stardrive section to drop out of high warp, and so on. "Concession accepted".

Since you're no longer willing to discuss the issue, the best thing we can do is simply agree to disagree, since I'm not willing to ignore canon and you're not willing to accept it.

[quote="DarkStar"][/quote]

Said nothing new. The fact is, you ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

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"Brian, if I parked a supertanker in Central Park, painted it neon orange, and set it on fire, it would be less obvious than your stupidity." --RedImperator

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Okay, Poe, fine... you have withdrawn from even trying to look like you're discussing anything. Of course, you were never willing to be swayed from your anti-canon position in the first place. The thread speaks for itself, as does the canon... trying to "get the last word" won't change the fact that you are wrong. "Concession accepted."

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Yes, thank you Thrawn... those are screencaps from the canon episode which agrees with my every point.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/phpBB2/vie ... 55&start=0

Scan down to the third message if you require further illumination of this fact.

WTF?


We see warp stars when it's in warp about to seperate.

Warp Stars go bye-bye when they maneuver

Warp Stars come back when they start again.

Dark Star is single-handedly rewriting Canon for his own advantage, Thrawn. Didn't you know? He's already excluded the EU by throwing out one of Lucas' statements on Canon Policy.

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Logic Enforcer of Fantasy

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter

Remember: The Media will always promote and attempt to ensure governing liberally has a price. Otherwise, the elected might get crazy ass ideas like regulating banks and other stuff!

No, I'm simply not ignoring canon representation of warp speeds in Trek. For example, shortly before the saucer sep, the high-warp chase was shown as a flyby of the Enterprise and Q. It looked like realspace, because it was from a stationary observation point, and therefore would not be expected to show mobile warp stars. Though it seems odd in the face of relativity, the fact remains that warp was shown in the canon in that manner.



A statement you misinterpret so you can throw out his more recent statement.

Dance, Data, dance! Studio 1077

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What a world, what a world! Who would have thought that a little girl could destroy my wickedness?

Dark Star is a great cult classic film and for Chris to use it as his name is nothing less than heinous. Have some respect for your betters, DullStar.

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What a world, what a world! Who would have thought that a little girl could destroy my wickedness?

Listen, DumbShit, if the Enterprise-D was shot from a camera that was not moving, do you have any idea how long it would be in camera for if it was moving at warp? Perhaps one frame! We would just see a streak going across one frame of film, if we even got that much. You are right, the camera was stationary. You are wrong in your assertion that the Enterprise-D's stardrive continued at warp throughout the turn. That is not what is shown on-screen. I am sorry this does not fit with your belief system, but the evidence is right there on camera. You are either claiming an FX gaffe, or you should be saying that the stardrive dropped out of warp. There really are no two ways about it, moron.

BTW, I liked how you came back at Poe and GAT by re-asserting your original points without any modification due to the evidence that they showed you. I've heard snappier comebacks from a bowl of Rice Krispies.

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"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."

You ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

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You ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the E-D DID in fact, drop out of warp almost immediately. Concession Accepted.

You ignore the fact that "plot elements" means about as much as your mom wondering if she should get an abortion now or later.
Concession Accepted.

Canon facts do not contain "Tng-era effects were different! Waaaa!"
Concession Accepted.

To prove there was no "warp effect" during warp, you offered up Q's ball. You've yet to prove Q needs to HAVE a "warp effect". Concession Accepted.

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"Brian, if I parked a supertanker in Central Park, painted it neon orange, and set it on fire, it would be less obvious than your stupidity." --RedImperator

I really don't know why this is so hard for you to understand, DumbShit. I would have thought that even you would have been understand this by now. We can clearly see that the ship is not at warp. Do you want us to take a poll, or something, about whether or not the ship was at warp? Maybe we should take a poll asking everyone how low they think your IQ is.

The picture clearly shows that the ship is at warp. It then separates the stardrive section, which decelerates and goes slower than warp speed. It turns around. The ship must then accelerate again to warp speed, though this is not shown on screen. Just concede to Lord Poe, who has kicked your ass in this debate, and go back to reading Graham Kennedy's fanfictions while calling it high quality literature.

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"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."

Irrelevant. I have already explained why. If we are to suspend disbelief for sci-fi, we must be willing to do so in reference to the rules it follows when representing itself.



It is precisely what is shown on screen. The saucer section could not have been at sublight speeds. 1/15 of a second earlier, it was at warp 9.5+, and it would not have been able to perform a downwarping maneuver due to the lack of engines. We have seen such a maneuver by a fully capable starship of 2363, and it took six seconds.



And, unlike you, I believe we should look at it. My "belief system" is that the canon of Trek is the canon of Trek, and the canon of Wars is the canon of Wars. You and Poe are of the opinion that you can ignore the canon facts and claim you're following canon... I'm sorry, that just isn't so.



Or, I can actually watch the canon and see how they show ships at warp, and how long it takes a warp-driven starship to reverse engines and drop out of warp. I can also notice the fact that the saucer section is without warp engines to reverse.

Cha-ching.



Why should I modify it, when they have not addressed the points?

You ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that starships and entities traveling at stated warp speeds are shown without the 'warp stars' you irrationally insist must be there. Concession accepted.



You continue to base arguments off of your premeditated ignorance of canon. Concession accepted.

Further, you ignore the fact that the saucer section does not have warp engines and so could not possibly have reversed them to drop out of high warp, a maneuver which took the stardrive section six seconds. Concession accepted.

Further still, your argument requires that the saucer and stardrive had some magic connection between them, even when separated. You realize, do you not, that the stardrive section reversed power just enough to get the saucer out ahead, and this did not slow the saucer. Your argument requires that the stardrive section then dropped out of warp on a dime, and somehow managed to carry the saucer along for the downwarping.



You ignore the plot of the episode, thereby ignoring the canon story and the reasons why things happen. Concession accepted.



By this foolish view, the entirety of TOS occurred at sublight speeds. Concession accepted.



I offerred up the Enterprise-D and the Q object, both of which were traveling at better than warp 9, and both were seen at this speed without warp effect. Concession accepted.

Why, because there are no warp stars? That issue has already been discussed and rectified in adherence with the representations of warp speed in the Star Trek canon.



The only people who believe that Poe has kicked ass in this debate are the ones who either have not read it, do not understand it, or who agree with Poe that the canon of Trek can be ignored.

The point has been argued to my satisfaction... there is no warsie argument which can possibly hope to override Trek canon representations of warp speed ships... there is also no warsie argument which has yet appeared that can override the point that the saucer section could not have dropped out of high warp in 1/15th of a second.

In short, despite the fact that you guys want to bitch about warp travel without the warp star effect (despite the fact that this is an established convention in Trek), my points still stand.

Unless and until some new argument is brought forth, I hereby accept the concession of my opponents in perpetuity on the grounds that they are ignoring multiple canon Star Trek facts.

We see warp stars indicating warp.
Right after, we see no warp stars.
Warp stars reappear imediatly after the parts move away from each other.




Guess why no warp stars were shown right then.

BTW, Tom Paris actually STATED during an episode that ships at warp could not turn. That is also canon. In this case, if you are right, there is a contradiction. If we are right, there is no contradiction.

BTW, how many people here think that Lord Poe has beaten the crap out of DarkStar, here? If anyone agrees or disagrees with my statement (excluding me, Lord Poe, and DarkStar), then please post.

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"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."

DarkStar could learn some things from Omega-13.

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//This Line Blank as of 7/15/07\\
Ornithology Subdirector: SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences
Wiilite

LOL! Damn that's cold.

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"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."

I agree with you Ossus, partially because we're all right.

And because I'm the one who made the damn animation that's being used as evidence.

Seriously, FuckFace, are you freaking BLIND or something?

Or is your stubborn refusal to admit when you're wrong the thing that's blinding you?

Just shut the fuck up and quit making a moron out of yourself.

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I believe in a sign of Zeta.

[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]

"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"

You ignore clear canon visual evidence which shows that the stardrive is NOT AT WARP when it made its turn. Concession Accepted.

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"Brian, if I parked a supertanker in Central Park, painted it neon orange, and set it on fire, it would be less obvious than your stupidity." --RedImperator